What happens if you forget your stamp?

5

5.56RifleGuy

New member
I know the best answer would be dont forget, but what happens if you legally own an NFA item, but forget to have a copy of your stamp on you?

What happens if you are unable to immediately produce the stamp for the ATF agent?

Thanks,
Devin
 
5.56RifleGuy said:
I know the best answer would be dont forget, but what happens if you legally own an NFA item, but forget to have a copy of your stamp on you?

What happens if you are unable to immediately produce the stamp for the ATF agent?

Thanks,
Devin
Click to expand...
You get to call your lawyer from jail.
 
Nothing and I have to say been shooting at gun ranges for over 30 year's and never seen an atf agent at one asking to see stamps.
But as a precautionary measure I keep a copy in all of my range bags and pictures of each stamp on my phone.
 
"You get to call your lawyer from jail"

Okay, are you just guessing or do you have some sort of source or experience?

As for never seeing it happen, I haven't ether, but if it were to happen, I'm curious as to what they do. It seems like a lot of trouble to jail someone when a minor amount of investigation would prove that the item was not illegally held.

Is not carrying the stamp a crime in itself?
 
5.56RifleGuy said:
"You get to call your lawyer from jail"

Okay, are you just guessing or do you have some sort of source or experience?

As for never seeing it happen, I haven't ether, but if it were to happen, I'm curious as to what they do. It seems like a lot of trouble to jail someone when a minor amount of investigation would prove that the item was not illegally held.

Is not carrying the stamp a crime in itself?
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In Texas, for example, merly having a registered and NFA compliant item is a feloney. Tex. Penal Code § 46.05(a). The NFA paperwork is to demonstrate that you qualify for a particular "defence against prosecution" and thus most cops will let you go at that.

But if you don't have your stamp on you, you cannot demonstrate that you qualify for that defence, and a LEO will proceed to process you as the armed felon the law presumes you to be by default until you prove your innocence.

forgetting the stamp should be treated as forgetting the very NFA item itself.
 
Im sorry, I don't quite follow what you are saying. You are saying that Texas state law says that you are commiting a felony by possessing an NFA regulated item, but you can't be charged if you have a stamp?
 
5.56RifleGuy said:
Im sorry, I don't quite follow what you are saying. You are saying that Texas state law says that you are commiting a felony by possessing an NFA regulated item, but you can't be charged if you have a stamp?
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Texas law says posession of an NFA item, registered and Federaly legal, is a felony within TX. Your NFA paperwork does not exempt you from prosecution.

***
Sec. 46.05. PROHIBITED WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally or knowingly possesses, manufactures, transports, repairs, or sells:
(1) an explosive weapon;
(2) a machine gun;
(3) a short-barrel firearm;
(4) a firearm silencer;
(5) knuckles;
(6) armor-piercing ammunition;
(7) a chemical dispensing device;
(8) a zip gun; or
(9) a tire deflation device.
(b) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that the actor's conduct was incidental to the performance of official duty by the armed forces or national guard, a governmental law enforcement agency, or a correctional facility.
(c) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that the actor's possession was pursuant to registration pursuant to the National Firearms Act, as amended.
***

You can still be prosecuted for otherwise lawfull posession of an NFA item. The law just provides you some legal wiggle-room. The people to watch out for are the wildlife and forest authories. The ATF and regular LEO'S are not likely at all to even ask for your paperwork.
 
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One of the above posts gives good advice

I carry a ziplock with copies of all my stamps in my range bag. A redundant one in my ammo box AND have pics of them all on my phone.

The chance of me not having one of those sources with me is slim. If it happens and the requesting officer wants to make an issue of my possession, then i might end up in jail for a bit.

Use my phone calls to get the wife to bring the paperwork down. You might waste a cpl hours sitting around but you wont end up in court or convicted.

You DO have the proper paperwork. It just wasnt with you at the time.
 
Is not carrying the stamp a crime in itself?
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No, but as Blackbook pointed out, some states criminalize the owning of NFA weapons. In those states, it is an affirmative defense against prosecution to produce the paperwork. In short, you are presumed to be breaking the law until you can prove you're not. Several states are like this.

It seems like a lot of trouble to jail someone when a minor amount of investigation would prove that the item was not illegally held.
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It'll depend on a number of factors. The weapon could be confiscated at the very least. The owner may have to resort to legal action to get it back. They could push for prosecution. Even if the case were to be dropped, the financial and personal burden to the owner would be daunting.
 
I do something similar with carring copies, I've just never seen any firsthand accounts of someone having the correct paperwork, but not on their person.
 
Ive never been asked for my paperwork. Even after mtpl LEO interactions. The "boys in blue" are often at the range, on duty and off, training/qualifying
 
Really, its more likely that a local or state le will ask for paperwork than an atf agent. They dont just go around looking for nfa weapons to see if they are registered or not.
So, while not necessarily illegal to not have the paperwork, it is what proves you not guilty at the moment of le interaction.
This is also going to depend on the officer. Finding an sbr in a car full of gangbangers isnt the same as being two lanes down at the local range from joe citizen with an sbr. Joe citzen, who isnt concerned with who sees it in public, and still isnt concerned if an le officer walks up and identifies himself is either legal, or woefully ignorant.
Also, you can carry a copy, and nothing says it has to be full sized. I shrink copies by 50%, then cover it with plastic, either laminating, or "poor boy" laminating with clear shipping tape, to make it last longer. The smaller sheet is much easier to take along. A friend shrinks his until it fits in his wallet but i can hardly read it. Personally, i like to stick with easily readable.
If you have a trust, you should also carry a copy of the page that lists the trustees. The f4 only proves the trust owns it, not that you are a qualified person to possess it. The trustee page establishes that. In all cases, your id shows that you are the named person.
 
You should try carrying an nfa item as a company employee.
Its a copy of the company ffl, the company sot, a copy of the f2 or f3 showing the company currently owns it, and a letter naming you as an employee and authorized to have it by the company.
 
I don't even carry paper anymore. Just put the PDF on my Cell Phone and call it good.

If the ATF can now issue PDF "Stamps" then I would argue that a PDF "copy" will suffice.

Either way, no one has ever asked me for a copy, including 3 gun matches and carbine classes.
 
In Texas, for example, merly having a registered and NFA compliant item is a feloney. Tex. Penal Code § 46.05(a). The NFA paperwork is to demonstrate that you qualify for a particular "defence against prosecution" and thus most cops will let you go at that.
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That law has been changed but the new law hasn't gone into effect yet. The new law says that possessing an NFA item is not an offense if the proper NFA paperwork is possessed.

I don't know when the new law goes into effect--either September of this year or at the beginning of next year.
Im sorry, I don't quite follow what you are saying. You are saying that Texas state law says that you are commiting a felony by possessing an NFA regulated item, but you can't be charged if you have a stamp?
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Under the old law you could be arrested, charged and taken to court. At that point if you presented your paperwork it would be a defense to prosecution and you could have the charges dropped.

In all fairness, I've never heard of this happening--the LEOs would ask for your paperwork at the scene and then all was well if things were in order. But that was how the law was written.

I have heard of TX LEOs asking machinegun shooters for their paperwork. In fact, one friend of mine finally quit shooting his machineguns because he said that every time he shot them he ended up having to deal with LEOs showing up and asking for his paperwork and then wanting to shoot them (using his ammo) after they found that things were legal.
 
According to the ATF, the stamp has to be "available." They do not define "available." They "suggest" you have a photocopy with the weapon.
 
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