what happened at the Shopping Center

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If you would like to point out something in my hypothesis that is faulty feel free to do so.
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No real problem, I just fail to see the difference. He could have been up to no good no matter what his sexual preference, that matters not to me, I don't want ANYONE following me around for no reason.

Too much crime nowdays for that.:cool:
 
No real problem, I just fail to see the difference. He could have been up to no good no matter what his sexual preference, that matters not to me, I don't want ANYONE following me around for no reason.
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There is just no evidence that supports the idea that he was looking to harm anyone. There is evidence that he wanted to be seen and was making his presence known. The manner in which he did so leads to the conclusion that he was seeking an interaction with the person he was following. Given that and where it occurred, it is much more likely a cruising event.

If I had been called to this as an LEO, which I saw a few similar events, I would have told the guy that he most likely had no real reason to be worried and that he was not being attacked.
 
WTH!?!?!?

Hmmmm..... Let's see..... someone acting suspicious... maybe it's just me....

Went to the checkout and he passed behind me and headed for the exit
but stopped before going out the door.
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STRIKE ONE

As I passed by him and started out the automatic door he stepped in right behind me, almost lock step.
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STRIKE TWO

As I exited the door I made an immediate right and walked back in the store through the other auto door!
The guy just stood there and looked at me stupidly then walked off.
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STRIKE THREE

At this point (STRIKE THREE)... IF it was all coincidence and they guy was totally unaware of the way it "appeared", I would think he would be oblivious to him turning and going back in the store. If I had not been paying attention to him in the first place WHY would I turn and look at him (stupidly).

And what difference does all this make???? Gay / Not Gay? Who gives a crap. Why in the hell was that even brought up?? If someone did that to one of my daughters, I would hope they would do the exact same thing #20fan did. And I bet nobody on here would have said a word. Why is anyone second guessing #20Fan???? NOBODY else was there. It's not like he spun around and kicked this guy's arse or anything. He was very smart in my opinion. He diffused the potential situation. I said Potential. Better safe than sorry.

As far as being in a safe public place..... apparently I am the only one that doesn't put anything past BG's now. On a regular basis I am simply amazed at what some people do.

Hats off to #20Fan from ME.
Just felt like he deserved some POSITIVE support. I won't read anymore here and I hope the moderator shut it down. All the GOOD has been said and the rests just seems negative to me.

He did the right thing.
 
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Just felt like he deserved some POSITIVE support. I won't read anymore here and I hope the moderator shut it down. All the GOOD has been said and the rests just seems negative to me.
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The positive support he deserves is for the fact that he did not overreact to a situation that he most likely misinterpreted. :)
 
When two men are involved it is a completely different story. All that male attitude and testosterone can make the "courtship" quite aggressive and can easily be confused as a potential threat.
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Listen to your instincts.

If it looks like a threat, don't just shrug and say, "Ohhh, how cute! That guy likes me! I guess I'll go wandering straight out the door into the dark parking lot, not looking behind me, not aware of anything, swish swish swish ..." :rolleyes: (BTW, this advice goes for women as well as men, mkay?)

Even if it does make the Pink Pistols contingent laugh, there's nothing wrong with situational awareness, and everything right with avoiding a potential threat.

Of course, if you were looking for an anonymous public sexual encounter (instead of just trying to get your groceries), the 'right' answer might be a bit different. But if you don't want to have sex with strangers, it's probably a good idea to avoid giving a stranger the idea that you'd make easy prey.

pax
 
I think there may be another explanation. Could be the dude was mentally disabled? Or just plain weird?
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I'm around the Gay Area, and, I haven't been stalked like that.

However, in my read, my first reaction was mentally challenged, maybe because I've been around special ed for awhile. Santa Cruz had a number of section 8 folks that appeared normal, but, as you got to know them, it became apparent they were a bit weird.

One guy, big, tall, dressed in a tux, would come into our restaurant, and, until about the 3rd time, appeared normal. After that, he would come over to the house I was staying in, and sing outside the window at 3-6am. He had a crush on the landlord, someone that had also appeared normal, at first, but, turned out to be section 8 as well.

Had to move, quickly. She was female, and, when I moved out, assaulted, and battered me, as I took my furniture out of the house. Since I'd been there for a month, it was now her's.:rolleyes: She actually tried to claw my eyes out, with rather long nails...

There are some pretty crazy folks that are out in the normal population, and, supported by the government.
Of course there is no reason someone mentally challenged can't be happy;) as well...

Finally, there are a number of folks that are homeless, some neat, some not so neat, that will stalk you, try and get you isolated, and extort, or force you to give them money. This has happened to my girlfriend, in San Francisco. I guess she reacted in a way the guy didn't like, all 5' and 105 pounds, and the guy punched her in the face, for no reason. I'd REALLY have liked to have been there for that one...:mad:

Having worked in the SFDA's office, about 40% of the cases investigated are homeless crime, usually on each other for territory, sometimes against a normal person, for money. They never go to trial, and, the people stay on the street, because homeless people do not make credible witnesses, and, they won't testify, about 100% of the time, since they have a great fear of police, DA's, and the legal system.
 
Shopping malls are private property, and many of them thus ban firearms. Be sure to check your own mall's rules, before going inside it armed again.

Both of the major shopping malls where I live have a rule against bringing firearms into the mall. I thus have to be extremely careful when carrying inside. For if detected, I would be ejected from the mall.

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well done, #20fan

When two men are involved it is a completely different story. All that male attitude and testosterone can make the "courtship" quite aggressive and can easily be confused as a potential threat.
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I guess if being stalked aggressively by an individual intent on propositioning a complete stranger to engage in acts of sodomy strikes one as "nothing sinister," well, carry on. . . as for me, I'm going to act precisely as #20fan did. If that doesn't work, the "potential threat" (excuse me, the only confusion here is on the part of the stupid twitch doing the shadowing) just became a real threat. Too bad. The pink pistol contingent can giggle themselves to incontinence for all I care.
 
I totally beleive in common sense, being prepared and situational awareness. Unfortunately, too often the tactical forum regresses into tactical paranoia. Now we've introduced Gay stalking into the mix!!
What will we come up with next??? My next door neighbor might be a serial killer. The Girl Scouts selling cookies are really just casing the place.The Pizza delivery guy is a sexual predator. The mailman smiled at me and said hello. I think he's gay! Suspect anyone and everyone. Wal=mart parking lots are rife with felon's of all kinds and Mall's must be avoided at all costs, because their full of gangs. Don't drive your car, there could be a hijacker at the next red light.
Living in fear is your choice.I'll trust the odds that a vast majoity of us will never, ever experience a life theatening situation.
 
I have to side with PBP on this one. And it's not just gay guys who do it either. Being a girl who was brought up in a family that stresses self awareness and self defense I have caught guys doing the same thing #20fan has described. The first few times it freaked me out enough to take action. And seeing as I wasn't old enough to carry yet that meant I had to look for help with one hand on my pepper spray or knife depending on which one I had at the moment. As it turned out then and still does today, it's always a guy who's too nervous to talk to me in front of other people. I can only imagine how a gay guy must feel approaching a stranger in public. As a matter of fact one of my best friends since kindergarten is a gay man and he "cruises" just like that. He does it so much I worry for his safety sometimes. And no, I don't let my guard down when this happens to me, I don't talk to anyone unless it's in a well lit public place. If they're nervous they'll just have to get over it if they want to talk. And I always have a gun very close at hand now just in case the guy turns out to be not so nice. But I still would recommend keeping an eye on anyone who does this in case it's just a crook who's too stupid to stay hidden. :) Erin
 
PlayboyPenguin said:
When two men are involved it is a completely different story. All that male attitude and testosterone can make the "courtship" quite aggressive and can easily be confused as a potential threat]
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Something else you might want to strongly consider. . .

Anyone stalks me like that, I'm going to assume it was somebody I helped put in a federal prison--or the relative/friend/associate of someone I arrested and put in prison.

I'll do exactly one obvious avoidance routine with no action. The second avoidance I take, if the "stalker" is still on me, then all of a sudden I have a handful of the guy yanking him into a hallway/cubbyhole/alley or whatever is convenient.

Then he has about two seconds to come up with a reasonable explanation.

My wife dealt with a stalker when she was a reporter. When me and my partner finally caught the guy, he didn't want to stalk anyone ever again. The first few years I was out of law enforcement, I had no less than half-a-dozen death threats that my old bosses took serious enough to investigate and act upon. I'll carry that mild paranoia around for the rest of my days.

There are a lot of cops and LOTS of returning soldiers and combat vets that don't take kindly to being stalked. So if it's some kind of courtship ritual, fetish, turn-on, game, thrill-ride or whatever, be advised that there are better--and safer--ways to about getting a date or getting your thrills.

Jeff
 
what if?

"Even paranoids have real enemy's".....I think #20 fan did the right thing whether he misread the intentions or not.....he did nothing to escalate the issue (in case he was wrong) and made sure he was safe without endangering any one else. If the gentleman was indeed "cruising" he got the message crystal clear from #20 fan that he was not interested. I don't think anyone should be chastised for being cautious. I you are made uncomfortable then you need to not dismiss your feelings....IMHO.
 
All kidding aside, if he was gay he would have tried eye contact.
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The original post clearly states he did. He even said he stood there staring at him.

#20FAN did nothing wrong. He probably misread the situation but his actions were fine.

No one is saying do not be alert and aware of your surrounding...but you have to be careful and be aware you are not always right. If you start pulling a gun on someone just because they happen to be parked next to you in the parking garage and you think they are following you, who is the real menace?
 
I think you did ok up till the walking out of the store. I don't think I would have done that. Not even for the very short time it took.
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That is a good point that you made. I dispute the earlier comment that shopping malls are necessarily safe. Lots of crime occurs outside of them in the parking lots.

Where I live, our big shopping mall is a hotbed for all sorts of crime, from assaults, even occasionally robbery, and especially burglary of cars and theft of cars. So much so that that they now have a lot more cameras and an active security patrol in the parking lots now. But the local maps published in the news showing criminal activity still show the area to remain quite active.

So it is especially frustrating that the mall has a ban on firearms, which is on display right at the entrances. It is listed with other types of behaviors that are also banned. The mall rules also say that any "illegal" weapons are also banned. Which I would think means that things like a small knife, pepper spray, or a taser are all OK, since they are legal. But it does specifically ban firearms, even if they are legally carried.

Meth addicts know that people at shopping malls often are carrying money, or are leaving with expensive new merchandise that can be easily re-sold if stolen. More affluent people tend to visit them too, so they can also get ready access to more expensive cars to steal. Car theft here is amazingly high, with folks even having their cars parked in front of their homes being stolen.

Whether that man was a criminal, or some kind of mentally ill pervert that likes to stalk people in that manner, there was no way for #20FAN to have known for sure.

But either way, he did the right thing by being so very alert, and keeping his distance from the fellow. He might want to check the rules that the mall has, and/or even talk to the security staff there. The Mall owners might very well not approve of this sort of stalking behavior taking place on their property, and thus would be willing to take action against this man.

A person definitely has less rights when inside a shopping mall. And while a person could get away with this kind of stalking behavior in a public place, the mall staff could consider it being disruptive or constituting harassment of their patrons, and thus deal with it on that basis.

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whether That Man Was A Criminal, Or Some Kind Of Mentally Ill Pervert That Likes To Stalk People In That Manner, There Was No Way For #20fan To Have Known For Sure....
But Either Way, He Did The Right Thing By Being So Very Alert, And Keeping His Distance From The Fellow.
A Person Definitely Has Less Rights When Inside A Shopping Mall. ...
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Why Do People Give Up Rights They Have???
This Deserves Another Thread, And, It's Going To Get One...
 
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