What gun for HD for wife?
- Thread starter gilfo
- Start date
dipper,
No, let me put it another way.
"Here, buy this gun! It's so simple, you won't have to learn anything..."
For the record, people, that is a lie. It may be a widespread and commonly-believed lie, but it is a lie nonetheless. When you purchase a defense gun, you are also purchasing the obligation to learn how to use it. If you really intend to use that firearm to save your life, you owe it to yourself to become as physically proficient with the firearm as you are reasonably able to manage. If you are planning to carry the gun in public, or use it in the home, you owe it to your family and your community to learn how not to shoot innocent others. Because a self-defense shooting is a traumatic event which can deeply affect everyone who cares for you, you owe it to your loved ones to learn as much about skillful problem solving, avoidance, de-escalation, and deterrence as you possibly can. And if you intend to remain a good citizen, when you acquire a defense gun you owe it to everyone around you to learn, understand, and obey the laws relating to the use of deadly force.
Make no mistake: I'm all about lowering the barriers that keep newcomers from getting involved in the shooting world. But I think we do no one any favors at all by pretending that there are firearms out there which can be effectively used without either knowledge or practiced skill.
The post that started this thread made it clear that his wife had no interest in learning anything. That's too bad; it's a shame; it breaks my heart to hear ... but it is what it is.
A firearm is nothing but a dangerous nuisance to someone who has no interest in learning anything about it.
pax
No, let me put it another way.
"Here, buy this gun! It's so simple, you won't have to learn anything..."
For the record, people, that is a lie. It may be a widespread and commonly-believed lie, but it is a lie nonetheless. When you purchase a defense gun, you are also purchasing the obligation to learn how to use it. If you really intend to use that firearm to save your life, you owe it to yourself to become as physically proficient with the firearm as you are reasonably able to manage. If you are planning to carry the gun in public, or use it in the home, you owe it to your family and your community to learn how not to shoot innocent others. Because a self-defense shooting is a traumatic event which can deeply affect everyone who cares for you, you owe it to your loved ones to learn as much about skillful problem solving, avoidance, de-escalation, and deterrence as you possibly can. And if you intend to remain a good citizen, when you acquire a defense gun you owe it to everyone around you to learn, understand, and obey the laws relating to the use of deadly force.
Make no mistake: I'm all about lowering the barriers that keep newcomers from getting involved in the shooting world. But I think we do no one any favors at all by pretending that there are firearms out there which can be effectively used without either knowledge or practiced skill.
The post that started this thread made it clear that his wife had no interest in learning anything. That's too bad; it's a shame; it breaks my heart to hear ... but it is what it is.
A firearm is nothing but a dangerous nuisance to someone who has no interest in learning anything about it.
pax
WOW Pax, that was a REALLY well written nice speech!!
Your reading a lot into it aren't you??
I don't think anyone is saying that!!
For me, it goes without saying that ANYONE who picks up ANY firearm must practice with it and become totally familiar with the safe operation of the firearm, know HOW to use it and become comfortable with it in use.
I do think that everyone should at least be familiar with and trained to use a firearm---that's just MY opinion.
THEN, if a persons heart is not in it, and they choose not to use said firearm or have it at the ready that is up to them and their spouse or whomever.
Again, you are reading WAY to much into the posts.
Don't like it or want to use it??
Sell it or keep it locked in the safe.
Didn't see anywhere in the OP that the wife was mentally handicapped.
AND, the shotgun IS a better weapon for a novice to learn on and get familiar with AND use in a high stress situation.
That's why PH use and like double rifles-----just for THAT reason.
I Personally would not advocate suggesting ANY semi-auto firearm (pistol or rifle) to a novice and especially not this type.
So, let me say that I officially think that it the wife of the OP does not want to try any firearm, it's a dead issue.
If she is willing to try it and train, I still say the shotgun is the best choice.
My wife was not a big fan of firearms either ---years ago---I gently introduced her into them AND I AM GLAD I DID and so is she.
NOTHING is written in stone.
My wife has developed the skill and the confidence to defend herself if need be and we are both VERY happy about that.
OH, and since you addressed me in your post and effect put words in my mouth with the above quote, show me were I said that and tell me how I lied---not what YOU inferred but what I said.
Thanks.
Your reading a lot into it aren't you??
I don't think anyone is saying that!!
For me, it goes without saying that ANYONE who picks up ANY firearm must practice with it and become totally familiar with the safe operation of the firearm, know HOW to use it and become comfortable with it in use.
I do think that everyone should at least be familiar with and trained to use a firearm---that's just MY opinion.
THEN, if a persons heart is not in it, and they choose not to use said firearm or have it at the ready that is up to them and their spouse or whomever.
Again, you are reading WAY to much into the posts.
Don't like it or want to use it??
Sell it or keep it locked in the safe.
Didn't see anywhere in the OP that the wife was mentally handicapped.
AND, the shotgun IS a better weapon for a novice to learn on and get familiar with AND use in a high stress situation.
That's why PH use and like double rifles-----just for THAT reason.
I Personally would not advocate suggesting ANY semi-auto firearm (pistol or rifle) to a novice and especially not this type.
So, let me say that I officially think that it the wife of the OP does not want to try any firearm, it's a dead issue.
If she is willing to try it and train, I still say the shotgun is the best choice.
My wife was not a big fan of firearms either ---years ago---I gently introduced her into them AND I AM GLAD I DID and so is she.
NOTHING is written in stone.
My wife has developed the skill and the confidence to defend herself if need be and we are both VERY happy about that.
OH, and since you addressed me in your post and effect put words in my mouth with the above quote, show me were I said that and tell me how I lied---not what YOU inferred but what I said.
Thanks.
dipper,
From the very first post in the thread:
"Once maybe twice" to the range doesn't cut it.
"Nor does she want to" doesn't cut it either.
Using a firearm in self-defense is a bloody, nasty, dangerous business. There's a risk to innocent others if you miss. There's a serious and significant risk to yourself if you don't understand the legal issues at play when you take arms against another human being.
When you use a gun in self-defense, you are gambling literally everything you own on getting it right and being legally justified. You are gambling every friendship you've ever made, your marriage, your ability to watch your children grow up in person instead of in pictures someone brings to you once a week on visiting day. You are gambling your job, your home, your livelihood. This is no exaggeration and it's not intended to prevent anyone from defending themselves; it is simply a description of the high cost of self defense if you get it wrong.
But this guy wants to shove a gun into the hands of a woman who doesn't want to learn a darn thing. It's not smart, it's not wise, it's not right. It's a bad call. If she doesn't want it, she shouldn't have it. If she won't learn anything about either the function of the gun or the proper use of deadly force, she shouldn't have it. Let her remain in happy ignorance and pray her luck holds good.
Firearms aren't for everyone. They don't belong in the hands of the willfully ignorant, no matter how badly others might wish so.
Kathy
From the very first post in the thread:
"Once maybe twice" to the range doesn't cut it.
"Nor does she want to" doesn't cut it either.
Using a firearm in self-defense is a bloody, nasty, dangerous business. There's a risk to innocent others if you miss. There's a serious and significant risk to yourself if you don't understand the legal issues at play when you take arms against another human being.
When you use a gun in self-defense, you are gambling literally everything you own on getting it right and being legally justified. You are gambling every friendship you've ever made, your marriage, your ability to watch your children grow up in person instead of in pictures someone brings to you once a week on visiting day. You are gambling your job, your home, your livelihood. This is no exaggeration and it's not intended to prevent anyone from defending themselves; it is simply a description of the high cost of self defense if you get it wrong.
But this guy wants to shove a gun into the hands of a woman who doesn't want to learn a darn thing. It's not smart, it's not wise, it's not right. It's a bad call. If she doesn't want it, she shouldn't have it. If she won't learn anything about either the function of the gun or the proper use of deadly force, she shouldn't have it. Let her remain in happy ignorance and pray her luck holds good.
Firearms aren't for everyone. They don't belong in the hands of the willfully ignorant, no matter how badly others might wish so.
Kathy
If she is not willing to pull the trigger, you're doing her a disservice to hand her a gun. It'll be taken away from her and likely used against her.
If she is willing to defend herself, I think the early suggestion of S&W 10 with a heavy barrel is right on.
But I think a couple trips to the range do not make a confident defender. There's a mindset that needs to be developed as well.
The most cogent explanation I've ever read regarding the proper mindset for defending oneself with a firearm is on the opening page of corneredcat.com. Have your wife take a look at it, and see what she thinks aout it.
http://www.corneredcat.com/
If she is willing to defend herself, I think the early suggestion of S&W 10 with a heavy barrel is right on.
But I think a couple trips to the range do not make a confident defender. There's a mindset that needs to be developed as well.
The most cogent explanation I've ever read regarding the proper mindset for defending oneself with a firearm is on the opening page of corneredcat.com. Have your wife take a look at it, and see what she thinks aout it.
http://www.corneredcat.com/
Can't argue with the wisdom of that statement.
However, if at some point, she should change her mind, she'll be the one to pick her firearm after she tries a few.
Wasn't it Ayoob, if I remember correctly, who bought the wife a gun he thought would be great for her? She traded it for a trash compactor and appropriated one of his, if I recall.
Can't argue with anything you said Pax in your last post, it was your previous post that I couldn't understand and still don't really...but that's OK.
Yes Pax TRAINING is very important and the commitment to firearms use is also very important.
I have been both an instructor and student in firearms training classes.
In another life, I have seen what a 12 gauge shotgun and .357 Magnum can do to the human body.
Often times, people will have very different feelings about firearms when the home invasions get a little to close to home or the crime rate skyrockets in a given area.
That is not the time for anyone to think it is time to "get a gun".
The time to do that is BEFORE the panic sets in.
I would NEVER drag anyone kicking and screaming to a class or to the range---I would (and did) explain why I think it is important for everyone to be familiar with and train with a firearm---then any adult can make a decision were to go from there.
It's just like the reason I taught my wife to drive my standard shift truck---she may have to some day and the time to learn is not when she NEEDS to drive it.
BASED on what experience?? it's pretty?? A novice knows nothing about picking a firearm.
Also, to you guys recommending a revolver, MOST experienced people think a revolver is only used to get to your shotgun in a home invasion situation.
In the dark, in/during stress,low light conditions, proximity of neighbors houses, homes with lots of glass, apartment settings etc. ----I'll take a shotgun everytime.
Yes Pax TRAINING is very important and the commitment to firearms use is also very important.
I have been both an instructor and student in firearms training classes.
In another life, I have seen what a 12 gauge shotgun and .357 Magnum can do to the human body.
Often times, people will have very different feelings about firearms when the home invasions get a little to close to home or the crime rate skyrockets in a given area.
That is not the time for anyone to think it is time to "get a gun".
The time to do that is BEFORE the panic sets in.
I would NEVER drag anyone kicking and screaming to a class or to the range---I would (and did) explain why I think it is important for everyone to be familiar with and train with a firearm---then any adult can make a decision were to go from there.
It's just like the reason I taught my wife to drive my standard shift truck---she may have to some day and the time to learn is not when she NEEDS to drive it.
BASED on what experience?? it's pretty?? A novice knows nothing about picking a firearm.
Also, to you guys recommending a revolver, MOST experienced people think a revolver is only used to get to your shotgun in a home invasion situation.
In the dark, in/during stress,low light conditions, proximity of neighbors houses, homes with lots of glass, apartment settings etc. ----I'll take a shotgun everytime.
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I'll go along with the .38spl med.frame revolver. Easy manual of arms, especially in a high stress situation. Adequate caliber with lots of choices in loadings. More time can be spent on training for tactics as less time needs to be spent on weapon training. It's what I keep on the nightstand.
Dipper, we are only giving the guy recommendations. No use to get on here and imply that none of us know anything about guns because we are making a suggestion to get a simple revolver. And notice in my post that I recommended full training with the firearm. I don't know you and you may know more than anyone in the world about guns, but you don't know me and should not imply these things. Most people would prefer a shotgun, but the OP seemed to be steering toward a pistol, which is why I made my recommendation. Yeah yeah yeah, in a perfect world you would get her a 20 ga and she would have 37 million hours in training, but in an ideal world, you wouldn't need to defend your home to begin with.
And there lies your problem. My wife came around and now "enjoys" plinking with a Glock 36. If she knows nothing about guns nor she wants too she is going to hurt herself or an Innocent bystander. I suggest an alarm system, a pair of dogs and pig can of pepper spray. If she comes around by all means get her a .38
Evan Thomas
Inactive
Pax has stated clearly why it's a really bad idea to get a gun for someone who doesn't want to learn how to use it, won't practice with it, etc. Enough said on that subject.
But I'd like to ask the OP: (1) "Have you discussed this with your wife?" (2) Does she want you to get a gun for her? "
If the answers to these questions are (1)"No," and (2)"I don't know," then it's not only a bad idea for all the reasons PAX points out, it's also pretty insulting: the woman is a grownup and can make her own decisions about how to defend herself.
If the answers are "Yes," and "No," it's even more offensive to go against her expressed wishes in this matter.
If they're "Yes," and "Yes" (which seems unlikely, given the part about "she knows nothing and doesn't want to"), then talk to her about learning to shoot first... Take her to the range and teach her, or better yet give her a gift of lessons (in basic shooting, NOT self-defense) with a professional instructor... Start with a .22, make it as much fun as possible for her. Worst case, she'll learn basic skills and be in a better position to decide for herself if she wants a gun for home defense; best case, she'll find that she enjoys it, WANT to get her own gun (or guns
) and you'll have a new range buddy.
But for heaven's sake, don't inflict something on her that she doesn't want and (given lack of practice) won't be safe with... it's just not a respectful thing to do.
But I'd like to ask the OP: (1) "Have you discussed this with your wife?" (2) Does she want you to get a gun for her? "
If the answers to these questions are (1)"No," and (2)"I don't know," then it's not only a bad idea for all the reasons PAX points out, it's also pretty insulting: the woman is a grownup and can make her own decisions about how to defend herself.
If the answers are "Yes," and "No," it's even more offensive to go against her expressed wishes in this matter.
If they're "Yes," and "Yes" (which seems unlikely, given the part about "she knows nothing and doesn't want to"), then talk to her about learning to shoot first... Take her to the range and teach her, or better yet give her a gift of lessons (in basic shooting, NOT self-defense) with a professional instructor... Start with a .22, make it as much fun as possible for her. Worst case, she'll learn basic skills and be in a better position to decide for herself if she wants a gun for home defense; best case, she'll find that she enjoys it, WANT to get her own gun (or guns
) and you'll have a new range buddy.But for heaven's sake, don't inflict something on her that she doesn't want and (given lack of practice) won't be safe with... it's just not a respectful thing to do.
#18indycolts
Moderator
my wife never had any interest, until she got pregnant...she actually ASKED me to take her downtown to get her handgun permit.
I agree with Tuttle8 who said:
"I would NOT get her a gun. Just once or twice to the range is not going to cut it.[...]"
If she has no interest in guns, she's not going to turn to one in a time of crisis or operate it properly due to lack of practice and understanding even if it's a revolver where you can "just pull the trigger."
If she's going to be home alone, I'd opt for an alarm system, a good dog, some kind of pepper spray, and most importantly the right state of mind. If she's going to be alone and something happens, will she know what to do, to not open the door to the fake gas man, to not leave doors unlocked even if she's doesn't feel unsafe, etc.
"I would NOT get her a gun. Just once or twice to the range is not going to cut it.[...]"
If she has no interest in guns, she's not going to turn to one in a time of crisis or operate it properly due to lack of practice and understanding even if it's a revolver where you can "just pull the trigger."
If she's going to be home alone, I'd opt for an alarm system, a good dog, some kind of pepper spray, and most importantly the right state of mind. If she's going to be alone and something happens, will she know what to do, to not open the door to the fake gas man, to not leave doors unlocked even if she's doesn't feel unsafe, etc.
I said she should shoot a few guns before she picks and didn't infer that "pretty" would be the criteria.
Been many a post on many a thread in many a forum that backs up my contention that she's more likely to embrace the gun she picks for herself, after shooting it, than the one you think she'll like.
That's not to say she won't like it, just that she should try a few.Typically, she'll end up with the one of yours she liked all along, and you'll end up with the one you bought for her.
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CarbineCaleb
New member
I agree that there are a lot of other security measures one can take - alarm system, good deadbolt locks, cut back bushes along house, adequate exterior lighting, loud watchdog(s), proper door design, and of course the pepper spray. The one article I read where they had surveyed a lot of guys who had been career burglars - most agreed that the #1 deterrent, more than an alarm system or knowing homeowner had a gun - was one or more good sized, loud, barking watchdogs.
We recntly bought her a S&W 642. She like it to carry. But when home alone at home keeps a 28 ga pump beside of the bed. I get her to shoot it regularly, she is comfortable with it and I feel sorry for anybody that trys to break in on her in my absence.
One other thing I did. I took her to the range and turned her over to a professional for proper instruction. He told her the same things I would have, but she believes him. "He is a professional " It made her feel comfortable with the gun anyway.
One other thing I did. I took her to the range and turned her over to a professional for proper instruction. He told her the same things I would have, but she believes him.
"He is a professional " It made her feel comfortable with the gun anyway.
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