What does Michael Moore really think about America?

[Fred Hansen]

Half my family and relatives are "Jewish" - engineers, physicist - a rabbi even. You are really reaching now aren't you?

Cheap thrill. Some of the greatest enemies of Jewish people have been other Jewish people. It's that way with any group. The deadliest enemies often come from within.

 

[LAK]

Cheap thrill. Some of the greatest enemies of Jewish people have been other Jewish people. It's that way with any group. The deadliest enemies often come from within.

... Really? Like who? Tell us who these "other Jewish people" are, "the greatest enemies of Jewish people".

Problem is Fred that you can not even define what "Jewish" means. I already called you on this. If you want to lay some stupid accusation against me personally you ought to at least know what you are talking about.

And you're still dodging the main point. The Rothschild family is not the only one, but it is on the top tier of those families associated with the founding and protection of the State of Israel. Anyone who knows anything about middle east history knows that. Are you trying to say that those "radical arabs" and "radical muslims" don't know that? So how is it those people reside in safety - without any government protection, no armed guards - for fifty years in a country full of "radical arabs and muslims" where arms and explosives are so easy to come by?

 

[Fred Hansen]

Really? Like who? Tell us who these "other Jewish people" are, "the greatest enemies of Jewish people"

Well you seem to claim to be Jewish, and you qualify hands down. Your Rothchild stuff is a hoot, but even over at stormfront.org they aren't quite as "out there" with the tinfoil hat type stuff.

Other examples would be those who told the people in their community to "Get on the trains. They are taking us to a nice work camp where we can shower." The antithesis of this would be folks like those in the Warsaw ghetto who urged their people to stand and fight, or at least die trying.

Appeasers, conspiracy believers, et al. are worse than any enemy. They cause rot from within, and they feed the enemy's desire to destroy. Sometimes the way they do this is as simple as turning informer. But (as in your case) other times they simply ask everyone to believe in the impossible; to believe in grand conspiracies spanning hundreds of centuries, and to believe that these conspiracies are orchestrated by "top tier" individuals, not a single one of which has ever successfully become a turncoat, and revealed the conspiracy as one naked tapestry of deceit. Thousands of years of conflict, and not a single conspirator has managed to jump ship. Sinister indeed.

 

[Vibe]

On the subject of "What Americans think of Moore"

Vegas Casino Boots Singer Linda Ronstadt

LAS VEGAS - Singer Linda Ronstadt (news) not only got booed, she got the boot after lauding filmmaker Michael Moore and his new movie "Fahrenheit 9/11" during a performance at the Aladdin hotel-casino.

Before singing "Desperado" for an encore Saturday night, the 58-year-old rocker called Moore a "great American patriot" and "someone who is spreading the truth." She also encouraged everybody to see the documentary about President Bush (news - web sites).


Ronstadt's comments drew loud boos and some of the 4,500 people in attendance stormed out of the theater. People also tore down concert posters and tossed cocktails into the air.


"It was a very ugly scene," Aladdin President Bill Timmins told The Associated Press. "She praised him and all of a sudden all bedlam broke loose."


Timmins, who is British and was watching the show, decided Ronstadt had to go — for good. Timmins said he didn't allow Ronstadt back in her luxury suite and she was escorted off the property.


Ronstadt's antics "spoiled a wonderful evening for our guests and we had to do something about it," Timmins said.


Timmins said it was the first time he sent a performer packing.


"As long as I'm here, she's not going to play," Timmins said.


Ronstadt had been booked to play the Aladdin for only one show.


Calls to Ronstadt's manager were not immediately returned.


In an interview with the Las Vegas Review-Journal before the show, Ronstadt said "I keep hoping that if I'm annoying enough to them, they won't hire me back."


Looks like she got her wish.

 

[LAK]

Well you seem to claim to be Jewish, and you qualify hands down. Your Rothchild stuff is a hoot, but even over at stormfront.org they aren't quite as "out there" with the tinfoil hat type stuff.

... Actually, it is a good portion of my family that does, but I did not personally claim to be "Jewish". But you brought that subject up with the popular and assinine insinuation that is so trendy these days. You can not even define what the word means. You are a fencer - a lousy one at that. You can not argue anything to a logical and rational conclusion and instead try to run off on tangents instead.

So are you trying to say that this is "untrue"? If so, you are pig-ignorant of the history of the State of Israel. PIG-ignorant, Freddy. In addition to being well written about in their history, the State of Israel has a coin that has his name and face on it - with the title.

But you can not explain why the "Jewish" family of the "Father of the Settlements" has lived openly in safety, unprotected, for the last 50 years, while we have been told that the "radical arabs" and "radical muslims" want to wipe out the "Jews" and State of Israel. You are wearing the hat Fred - not me.

The "radical" faction of more than a billion people supposedly planned, financed and excuted all these "terrorist" attacks over the last THIRTY years. Bombing and murder in the State of Israel regularly - despite some of tightest security in the world today. They supposedly hit the WTC in 1993, and we are told that they planned, financed and executed the hijacking, overpowering of crew and passengers, of three airliners which were navigated and precision flown into three buildings in a flawless operation.

But they are not even able to effect the demise of the figurehead family of the State of Israel? Sitting unprotected and still doing business as usual all these years? The same family whose wealth THEY would say largely came at the expense theirs?

Right Fred

Other examples would be those who told the people in their community to "Get on the trains. They are taking us to a nice work camp where we can shower." The antithesis of this would be folks like those in the Warsaw ghetto who urged their people to stand and fight, or at least die trying.

... My grandparents, my father, his brother and other family did have to flee to flee the Nazi Party; and some of them died in places like Austria.

Appeasers, conspiracy believers, et al. are worse than any enemy. They cause rot from within, and they feed the enemy's desire to destroy....

... You are the one with a hangup over the words "Jewish" and "conspiracy". Not me Freddy.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/biography/rothschild.html

http://www.jafi.org.il/education/100/people/BIOS/eroth.html

http://www.jjvangroverisraelcoins.com/Coins/IsraelAnniversarySilverCoins/A25.html

 

[TheBluesMan]

This vitriolic exchange has gone on long enough.

Clean it up, guys, or this thread is as good as locked.

Thanks

 

[Fred Hansen]

So are you trying to say that this is "untrue"?

See below:

If so, you are pig-ignorant of the history of the State of Israel. PIG-ignorant, Freddy. In addition to being well written about in their history, the State of Israel has a coin that has his name and face on it - with the title.

Where have I ever suggested otherwise?

But you can not explain why the "Jewish" family of the "Father of the Settlements" has lived openly in safety, unprotected, for the last 50 years, while we have been told that the "radical arabs" and "radical muslims" want to wipe out the "Jews" and State of Israel.

Ah! Now we get to the meat of the matter. "Unprotected"? In what sense? Are you asking people to believe that members of one of the most wealthy families on Earth are "unprotected"?

Then again, what is it that you would have us believe? You simply imply things again and again, and I guess that by implication the rest of us are to believe that some nebulous 'sombody(ies)' somewhere, are pulling all of the strings. I guess that we are to believe that the ubiquitous phenomenon of death-cult psychotics who wear Islam on their sleeve are simply a figment of all of our imaginations. I guess that since you wish us to believe that a 757 didn't crash into the Pentagon, that somebody(ies) somewhere - Area 51 perhaps - flew the original 757 to... oh let's say the Bermuda Triangle just for the sake of argument... and then I guess we get to fill in the blank of what really hit the Pentagon in said 757's stead. A sleigh and 8 tiny reindeer? The mothership from the movie 'Independence Day'? Billy Joel in a Cadillac? The list of potential nefarious devices seems endless.

As to 9/11 being performed "flawlessly" are you kidding? If the hijackings had indeed been flawless, at minimum the hits to the Twin Towers would have occurred only a few stories above street level. Far more damage, far more dead.

But they are not even able to effect the demise of the figurehead family of the State of Israel? Sitting unprotected and still doing business as usual all these years? The same family whose wealth THEY would say largely came at the expense theirs?

Again we have to take your word that billionaires go about unprotected. I don't know if you really believe that, or if you just say it in the hope that others will believe it. I think that most people understand that no one with that kind of opulence and wealth is ever unprotected. I think that most people understand that folks with that kind of wealth and power are protected 24/7/365.224 and that if they weren't they would find themselves being kidnapped and ransomed around the clock! If not killed outright at the drop of a hat.

Then again, you want us to believe that only you, the nefarious nebulous somebody(ies), and maybe a few people over at stormfront.org democraticunderground.com, and michaelmoore.com know the REAL truth of things. Fine. Be sure not to let slip all that you know, because I'm sure that if you do, you will be obliged to kill us all, lest the REAL truth fall into our benighted hands.

<PLONK>

 

[LAK]

Ah! Now we get to the meat of the matter. "Unprotected"? In what sense? Are you asking people to believe that members of one of the most wealthy families on Earth are "unprotected"?

...... Let's do; there are no private companies, individuals or other private entities in the United Kingdom that can provide armed bodyguards or armed services anywhere within the borders of the United Kingdom for a private person. That is a simple fact. There is no provision under law there for private armed security services serving private citizens whatsoever. They can not even provide them for government contracts. Armed "security" is in the realm of government departments like the military only and some of the special police units.

The Rothschild family, among others, are private citizens. They are not government officials - elected or otherwise - and over the last 50 years they have not been entitled to protection by the British government. They might happen to fall under such protection when under certain circumstances they are mixing it up with government officials who are. But neither they themselves nor their property have government protection.

Are they "unprotected"? Doubtless they have unarmed bodyguards, and are very careful about their comings and goings. Let's keep in mind that they have lived there, and commuted to other places and residences in europe and elsewhere for the last half a century during this rising "conflict" without a single serious attempt on any of them or their property.

In the meantime; John F Kennedy was dropped, Robert Kennedy, attempts on Gerald Ford, Ronald Reagan & Margaret Thatcher, Indira Ghandi, Anwar Sadat, Lord Mountbatten, Yitzhak Rabin and many others - many of them under the protection of State security services. Then there have been the countless major bombings and other attacks either aimed at individuals, property or government and military targets.

Yet the same people that we are told have the support of certain States, unlimited funds, arms and operators have not been able to hit a figurehead of their "hated enemies" under these circumstances all this time? Doesn't add up at all.

Then again, what is it that you would have us believe?

..... I have made an observation. It is not "I" who has spun this conflict between "Arabs and Jews" as being one of such intensity. In juxtaposing what people have been led to believe; who is doing it, how and why (the "explanation") with this particular observation - something does not add up. It is not rational and logical; which may be fine for government spokespeople, primetime news and editorials - but it doesn't fly with me.

You simply imply things again and again, and I guess that by implication the rest of us are to believe that some nebulous 'sombody(ies)' somewhere, are pulling all of the strings. I guess that we are to believe that the ubiquitous phenomenon of death-cult psychotics who wear Islam on their sleeve are simply a figment of all of our imaginations.

........ I am not "implying", I am saying that the "explanation" does not add with other things.

I guess that since you wish us to believe that a 757 didn't crash into the Pentagon, that somebody(ies) somewhere - Area 51 perhaps - flew the original 757 to... oh let's say the Bermuda Triangle just for the sake of argument... and then I guess we get to fill in the blank of what really hit the Pentagon in said 757's stead. A sleigh and 8 tiny reindeer? The mothership from the movie 'Independence Day'? Billy Joel in a Cadillac? The list of potential nefarious devices seems endless

....... Again; given the evidence, the "explanation" does not make sense. Not just conflicting witnesses, but the physical evidence. In the case of the Pentagon, it is possible that it was a 757, but doubtful because of the physical evidence. If it was a 757 I do not believe, given what is known about Hani Hanjour, that it was he who flew that plane. That leaves several other possibilities - including a different pilot. But before any objective stab at the truth can be made, someone(s) has to answer some serious questions, start releasing real tangible evidence both film and otherwise, and let's hear something other than tabloid newspeak.

As to 9/11 being performed "flawlessly" are you kidding? If the hijackings had indeed been flawless, at minimum the hits to the Twin Towers would have occurred only a few stories above street level. Far more damage, far more dead.

I wondered about that too for awhile. But it seems that flying an airliner at such a target pretty much has to be done on a level approach because of the surrounding tall buildings, and this is easily understood when it is known that both jets hit their targets with the throttles somewhere near wide open. I think one was moving at about 550 mph and the other at about 580. Imagine trying to maneuver an airliner in a dive at that speed.

But however it was done, all other aspects of the operation were flawless; planning, financing, organizing, communications, timing and execution. It has the hallmarks of State involvement - and not some third world country either. A different operation completely of course, but compare with our rescue attempt in Iran that ended in disaster. The most advanced and powerful military with all the scientific resources of trained, experienced men, and matter, and it was fouled up for reasons of planning and execution. Yet a band of unskilled people from a third world nation allegedly pulled this off without a hitch.

This is not a matter of believing what I say. It is a matter of what does and does not add up. Simply staring at the obvious certainly affirms that some things happened, and a certain number of people died - but dead bodies and destruction do not in and of themselves "prove" that the explanations provided by our government are true, either in whole or in part.