What do you mean you can't send back 11 million illegals?

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Unless the law has changed, ANYONE born in the USA is a citizen, regardless of parental nationality. It used to be common for women to travel to the States when their pregnancy was near term, solely so that their child would be an American.
 
That particular law is an American peculiarity. Try sending a pregnant woman to Saudi Arabia, Iran or any one of a hundred other countries and after the baby is born you'll have nothing except the cost of repatriating two non-nationals from the country in question.

Anyone else think that the suggestion that immigrant labor could easily be replaced with our children is stupid?
Well, no. I think that it is stupid to forget that it sorely hurts our civilization when our children grow up with no idea, not even the smallest clue, as to what it really takes to support them in an urban lifestyle. I think that it is stupid to think that any country can survive with citizens who really believe that manual labor is loading the dishwasher. I also think that it is stupid to expect the vast majority of children and teens to be serious about college unless they know the difference between industry and laziness. I think that it is stupid to expect anyone who grows up watching TV for 8 hours a day to be worth anything except as compost. I think you should invest $2.00 to buy a copy of Booker T Washington's book Up From Slavery.

But then what do I know? Have a nice day and try not to think about whats going to happen to your grandchildren if you don't teach your children anything.
 
Trust me, im completely against illegal immegration, but this sounds an aweful lot like the Gestapo rounding up the jews.

No it doesn't .... it sounds like law enforcement doing their job and rounding up/arresting CRIMINALS.

The journey of 1000 miles starts with 1 step. Let's get to deporting. Any other choice is a slap in the face to those those immigrants who took the time, effort, & money to do it LEGALLY - mounds of paperwork, lawyers, tests, learning the language, waiting the 5 years, etc., etc.

What's spanish-speaking got to do with anything? Either they're citizens, or have a green card allowing them to be here legally, or they're NOT! We need to make the determination, and take appropriate action.

Immigrant labor is replaced not by children, but by other workers who will go from their jobs making $6 an hour to their new jobs that the immigrants used to have making $7 an hour (when the illegals used to make $4 an hour). Why? Because the huge farming & other corporations aren't going to say - what the hell, we had a good run, let's just shut down now and live in poverty - they're going to go out and GET WORKERS by paying a higher wage and cutting into their bottom line a tad bit. Good for everyone involved, except for the stockholders of those corporations that take a little hit - not very unfair considering how they raped the system for obscene profits for years by breaking the LAW by knowingly employing illegal workers to earn said profit.
 
it would still have cops stopping random people asking "papers, please"

I dunno about you but to me that's pretty much as anti-freedom as a society can get.
 
It's not stopping random people. It's stopping specific people in a specific place (work areas or door to door in neighborhoods) asking for proof of citizenship in an orderly and lawful manner.
 
and while y'all bitch and moan about how gun registration can so easily be abused by the government you don't think that this could be subject to the very same abuse?

Why should I have to fork over my ID while I'm planting a tree? Not to mention I think you ought to include the words residency and visa status because non-citizens have the same protections under the BoR as the rest of us.
 
Well, no. I think that it is stupid to forget that it sorely hurts our civilization when our children grow up with no idea, not even the smallest clue, as to what it really takes to support them in an urban lifestyle

I agree with you that children ages 15 and up should have to do some work, just not to the point where it interferes with what I think should be priority one, receiving an education.

For children, work should be a part of that education, but having them focus on manual labor won't do them that much good on our high tech society, if learning the value of work is the only thing their learning.

My father forced me to get a job at the age of 16, but also made sure that it wasn't interfering with my schoolwork.
 
Let's start deporting our "unwanteds" to Mexico! Give all our felons a 1 way bus ticket to Mexico.

Just kidding.

But seriously... This is a tough question. If you start taking away the jobs and social services for these clearly motivated people (they did get here under harsh circumstances, by the way), don't you think that the 11,000,000 of them will mostly resort to crime to survive? Wouldn't you if you were in the same situation: stuck in a foreign nation with no food, money, etc.

I don't see imprisoning executives as a solution. I also don't see deporting them as an economically feasible or practical solution. And I don't think that a Nazi-esq rounding up of people is good for anyone. Mistakes are bound to be made. What if people resist in large numbers? Do you start beating or killing them? The logistical problems are nightmarish; housing, feeding, transporting, etc. I don't necessarily think that it would be good to have 5% of the nations population suddenly strike back with violence.

I think the best plan is:

1: FIX the border problem. Build a monstrous fence and have it patrolled by the National Guard, ground sensors, etc. Patrol those coastal areas with the Coast Guard. Sure it's a large area, but it's not impossible to do. Use federal and local prisoners as workers to do the labor to save costs.

2: Allow amnesty for all the illegals that are here provided they take courses, LEARN ENGLISH, and get citizenship. This allows us to tax their wages and gets them contributing to the system from which they draw. Start having them pay for their services they use (school, hospitals, medicine, roads, police, fire, etc.). And they can be part of the census.

3. Anyone that fails to get their citizenship must leave. This will give the majority of them the incentive and opportunity to become legit, and I suspect the overwhelming majority will comply. Those that don't are probably criminals or troublemakers and should be deported. This though is a much smaller number, maybe tens of thousands or something, and much easier to justify deportation and expenses .

This means that we have no NEW immigration problems and the legitimate ones can stay.
 
Leadcounsel wrote:

If you start taking away the jobs and social services for these clearly motivated people (they did get here under harsh circumstances, by the way), don't you think that the 11,000,000 of them will mostly resort to crime to survive? Wouldn't you if you were in the same situation: stuck in a foreign nation with no food, money, etc.

Clearly motivated? Clearly motivated to BREAK the LAW and become CRIMINALS. Who CARES what our laws are. We have a better country. We owe them something. And they are not 'stuck' here. They can go home anytime they want. They are here by CHOICE.


I don't see imprisoning executives as a solution.

Why? Are you one of those executives? Why in the world would we EVER want to punish companies who KNOWINGLY VIOLATE THE LAW by hiring illegals? How DARE we mess with their ability to rape the economy. After all, don't you know they only have 2 houses for Christ's sake!!!!

What if people resist in large numbers?

Hmmm, thats called armed resistance by a foreign force.....we got military for that don't we?


FIX the border problem. Build a monstrous fence and have it patrolled by the National Guard, ground sensors, etc. Patrol those coastal areas with the Coast Guard.

Hmmm, THATS feasible....only cost taxpayers billions.....

Allow amnesty for all the illegals that are here

Sure, pardon the LAWBREAKERS. Be WEAK. Give others reason to do the same......

Anyone that fails to get their citizenship must leave.

And just how, praytell, do you just....make them leave...??? Isn't that the problem now? Well, get to it. You start asking them all to leave. Let us know how that works out for you.....:rolleyes:
 
After reading many of the statements, I conclude that we are as clueless as are the politicians on how to deal with the complexities of the problem. Lots of tough guy posturing with no idea about the costs of and the logistics of the tough guy solutions. Lots of heartless people also full of stereotypes and hate. :barf:

Flame suit on - but that's the way I see it.
 
Saw a documentary-type news report recently. Some good mexican folks crying to the thought of leaving America. Their entire lives are now here, in this country.

Nope.

Some darn good folks built a life here; I can't feel good about sending them all back to a crap country, even though I know in their midst are the MS-13 types, and other unsavory characters.

Can't let the bad ruin it for the good. Kind of like when some nut job plows through a crowd of people with his SKS. No reason you should have to give up your SKS.

When this all started I was of the opinion that we should ship every last one of them back and make them do it the legal way. Not anymore. It's not right.

Something needs to be done, that's for sure. I don't have the answers. But I do know the answer isn't as simple as "ship'em back." Not only does that solution show a lack of imagination, but it also shows a lack of compassion and understanding.

Every last one of you would have done the same for your family - that is - illegally move to America to build a life in a free nation full of opportunity. We need a system that allows this opportunity to remain reasonabily attainable, whilst maintaining control of the border so it does not continue on as a free-for-all.
 
This thread is not a shining example of the best we have to offer.

Three pages without any workable approaches to a solution; instead, lots of chest-beating and hot air.

This one's done for a complete lack of purpose or productivity.
 
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