What do you mean you can't send back 11 million illegals?

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Doug.38PR

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I just heard on FOX some politican mouthing off "What do you do with 11 million people? You can't send them back"

My response: Why the heck not? Does this guy think sending back means findin gand packing up 11 million people at one time and trucking them back across the border at the same time? Obviously cannot be done, but sending back means starting somewhere, it means looking for them, it means rounding up those you see loitering around public places waiting for some white guy to come pick them up in a truck to work somewhere, it means going to work areas and checking citizenship, it means going door to door checking citizenship, it means denying public benefits to non citizens, it means making them felons threatening jail time if they don't go back and deter them from turing around and trying again. Since this is a mess that has been around for 20 years it is going to take time and serious effort to clean it out but it can be done. All of these things can be done in an orderly and legal way but, most Americans want it done, but the Republicans and Democrats are too scared of being called "racist" and securing votes and not offending the Mexican government. :rolleyes:

There, that's my frustration for the day ;)
 
what you're suggesting would require a society in which "Papers, please." is a phrase heard daily


out of curiosity, would you throw out someone who can only speak spanish?
 
it means looking for them, it means rounding up those you see loitering around public places waiting for some white guy to come pick them up in a truck to work somewhere, it means going to work areas and checking citizenship, it means going door to door checking citizenship, it means denying public benefits to non citizens, it means making them felons threatening jail time if they don't go back and deter them from turing around and trying again.
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Trust me, im completely against illegal immegration, but this sounds an aweful lot like the Gestapo rounding up the jews.

Besides, can you imagine the cost of that kind of operation. finding and moving 11 MILLION PEOPLE from all over the country and dumping them over the border. its a logistics nightmare. Take away their jobs and make sure they can't get new ones (by severely punishing the companies that hire them). Don't sell apartments to anyone who can't show LEGAL immegration status. If theres no jobs they wont come, America isnt exactly cheap to live in compared to mexico if you have no income.

On a related note, who would like to pay $9 a pound for fresh produce once we start paying (now american) people real wages?
 
It would be a logistic and moral nightmare. The answer is to come up with a way to legitimize people who want to work.

The driving force behind these folks being here are companies like the one just busted for having a 50% illegal work force. Rather than round up so many working folk - put the executives in jail and make sure that all workers are paid decent salaries.
 
what you're suggesting would require a society in which "Papers, please." is a phrase heard daily


out of curiosity, would you throw out someone who can only speak spanish?
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Simply reviewing citizenship of non-English speakers who are arrested would be a start. We can do this by ensuring that local police coordinate with INS/DHS much as they now do with the FBI or DEA for federal offences. Is that the same as arresting non-English speakers? No,of course not. But you must admit that failure to speak the dominant language of a country is a sure sign that one is not from that country,and provides presumptive evidence for a background check and citizenship query.
As for "papers please" we've all effectively had that condition since the first drivers licenses,birth certificates and social security cards came out. When you get pulled over for speeding or hired for a new job, do they simply take your word as to your ID? Of course not.
 
Why would that be a start? There are many Puerto Ricans living in the US that don't speak a word of english yet they are born US citizens.

When you get pulled over for speeding you have to identify yourself because you're accused of commiting a crime. You're also required to show your license because it's property of the state which provided it. The bottom line is that if you give law enforcement the authority to check people's credentials door to door or on the street or on the job site then it can be abused just as easily as a national firearms registration system could be abused. To support one but be against the other seems strange to me.
 
You don't have to round up and send back anyone.

Just force US business, under extreme penalty including jailing of the CEO, to verify social security number validity through the currently available online database. Enough businesses lose enough money getting fined, the jobs will dry up.

The illegals will self deport.

Unfortunately, our elected officials are courting the future vote of these illegals so we have to fire the politicians first.
 
Costs about $1800 in traveling expenses to deport a person. More in housing them prior to deportation. Call it $2000 to make it nice and round, but that's really conservative.

$2,000 X 11,000,000 aliens = $22,000,000,000. (22 billion dollars.) That doesn't include finding them, doing the hearings to determine whether they're really illegally here, (14th Amendment guarentees due process), and dealing with the appeals.

How much are we losing having 'em here? Is it really worth that kind of money? Seriously, if I thought that we could do the deal for that money and have it work, I'd probably sign off on it. But we have:

  • [A] No proof of eficacy.
    No proof that they wouldn't immediately come back, same way they got here.
    [C] No proof that we know it's only 11M illegals.
    [D] No proof that it would cost so little as I mentioned above. (that's the cost for the stupid ones that just fall into our laps. Whether you believe it or not, most of the illegal aliens living in this country successfully are quite inteligent, and live by their wits. That may prove to be substantially harder to enforce.)


Here's a question: It's dollars to donuts that the $100k house that I live in, which I bought for $71k a few years ago, was built by mostly illegal immigrant labor. The footings for the slab were unquestionably dug out and reinforced by illegal immigrant labor. The framing was probably largely done by illegals. The roofing (and re-roofing; it's a 23 year old house) was almost certainly done by illegals. If this work had been done by local citizens, the price probably would have jacked up to half-again what I paid for it, do to the higher labor costs.

Should I want to pay more for products of the exact same quality, just to get the illegals out? Frankly, I'm not too motivated there. And I don't see to many locals jumping in to take $5/hr or so to dig foundation footings.
 
Everybody thinks these illegals working in agriculture are making 3rd world wages. Less than $5 an hour, harvesting thousands of pieces of produce an hour, etc.

They aren't.

They aren't getting $10 an hour either though.

They are making around $7 an hour.

If you stopped buying cars for your high school kids, stopped paying for their cell phones, etc., they would be taking those jobs.

I took those jobs in high school and college, and made the same amount as the mexicans.

If you want 35 year old men with families to do the job, then your produce will cost $7 a pound. If you quit giving the world to your kids on a silver platter, they will do the job for the same amount the mexicans are getting, and your produce will remain the same price.
 
out of curiosity, would you throw out someone who can only speak spanish?
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I'm answering this narrow question, not the bigger "send them back" question.

No, I would not. However.

I come from Miami. I'm familiar with the subject. I've found that people who try to be assimilated and show some respect to the established citizens of their new country get a lot further a lot faster than those who don't. Anyone in the US who doesn't try to see that their children speak English should be ashamed of what they're doing to those kids.
 
If you want 35 year old men with families to do the job, then your produce will cost $7 a pound. If you quit giving the world to your kids on a silver platter, they will do the job for the same amount the mexicans are getting, and your produce will remain the same price.
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I agree at least with the latter part of that statement. When I was a late teenager, I worked for my dad (a hell I would not wish on anyone) in the summers to buy my first car, my gas, car insurance, and anything else I thought I needed.

That turned out to be a very helpful thing to have done when I had to work my way all the way through graduate school. I already had a start knowing how to get what I wanted on my own.

This was an integral part of my dad's attitude that "the world don't owe you a livin" which, at the time, I was sure it did.

In the very early '70s, I realized that lots of blacks and hispanics were going to be coming into the job marketplace I was part of. I decided then that rather than sit on my arse and complain, I was going to compete.

After I finished school, the Soviet Union collapsed. Here came some more immigrant competition, pre-educated at my level. What to do? Complain or compete?

I'm not wealthy, at least not in my book. But I really like my job. It's like fun that I have to drive to. And that's how it's been for the last 20 years. I sit in an office with an ex-Russian engineer. I get to hear some pretty funny stories.

I wonder where I would be if I had concentrated my thinking on "sending 'em back" rather than competing with them all this time?
 
You don't have to round up and send back anyone.

Just force US business, under extreme penalty including jailing of the CEO, to verify social security number validity through the currently available online database. Enough businesses lose enough money getting fined, the jobs will dry up.

The illegals will self deport.
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Or maybe turn to a life of more crime, selling drugs, prostitution, illegal arms, burglary, gangs, etc.

As far as the statements that we need illegals to keep prices down, then it seems we are condoning the importation of them. If that's the case then we should make them legal. If we do, then they can demand the higher wages that naturalized or natural-born citizens would demand. So prices would go up anyway. Our economy is designed to keep and maintain a population of illegal workers... that is just wrong!
 
Anyone in the US who doesn't try to see that their children speak English should be ashamed of what they're doing to those kids.
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I wholeheartedly agree, though I wouldn't stop there. I believe that anyone in the US that doesn't try to see that their children can speak more than one language is leaving their child at a terrible disadvantage.
 
it means looking for them, it means rounding up those you see loitering around public places waiting for some white guy to come pick them up in a truck to work somewhere, it means going to work areas and checking citizenship, it means going door to door checking citizenship
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Gestapo tactics at it's finest.
Please clarify who it is that we round up when we see them loitering in public places? Brown people, white people, asian people. all people?

When we go door to door checking citizenship, we won't immediately be able to prove that "the papers" of everyone aren't counterfeit, so we should just round up everyone with papers too.

I really find it hard to believe that anyone feels so threatened at this point to be so worried about it. Problem or not, Americans always love to hate someone, and illegal immigrants are just the current easy target.
 
has there ever been a viable answer to this type of question?

what did the soviets do to their millions of 'unwanteds'?

germany was asking themselves the same question until they arrived at their 'final solution'.

NOTE - this is not meant to compare our country to Russia or Germany, but rather to point out the difference; that whatever is done in the USA, it will be far more humane than what other countries have chosen to do.
 
Then just jail them. Permanently. Have an accident with no insurance or license(a regular and typical event) and no papers? Locked away and toss the key. Hit the hospital for health care? You won't like where you're going afterwards...

Fact is most illegals break more laws once they are here. Taxes, licenses, financial responsibility, not to mention the actual violent felonies. And, of course, there's all the ones we could get when we nab their employers. But if you don't have the moral fiber nor energy to send the criminals back where they should be then fine. Just stop any more of the creatures from dragging their sorry asses in here and, in a few years, we can have the troublemakers jailed up and you can pay for THAT. :rolleyes:

Excuses never end for some people, do they...
 
You make it impossible for illegals to obtain any SOCIAL SERVICES! No driver's licenses, no welfare/child care, no schools, no hospitalization, no JOBS no bank accounts, no mortgages, no real estate purchases. Make any child born here the same status that the parents are (eliminate anchor babies). Children born of US Citizens become citizens, children of illegals become illegals themself! This reverses court orders, not the 14th amendment. Once they realize that Uncle Sucker has wized up, they will go home. Strengthen interior enforcement!
:o Whew!! (this is one of my hot buttons):o
 
I wholeheartedly agree, though I wouldn't stop there. I believe that anyone in the US that doesn't try to see that their children can speak more than one language is leaving their child at a terrible disadvantage.
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While I would agree that it's nice and an advantage to be multilingual, I've done pretty well with only one language. Even though I can make myself understood sometimes in Spanish and Turkish, I would never claim to be a speaker of either one.

So I'd call it more a disadvantage than a terrible disadvantage.
 
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