What can and what can't a .38 special do?

[Yankee Doodle]

Cut to the chase

What can it do? It can make it possible for you to defend the lives of you and your loved ones, should the need arise.

What can't it do? It can't do a damned thing on it's own. You have to be willing to become proficient with it. But I guess the same holds true with any weapon.

That's my $.02 worth.

 

[tipoc]

Let's take a peek at what Glock says about the weight of it's guns.

http://us.glock.com/products/model/g19

Glock claims the G19 loaded weighs 30.16 ounces. That may vary a bit depending on round count. The pencil barreled 4" S&W weighs 29.5 ounces and will vary some depending on stocks.

So the loaded G19, to no ones surprise, weighs either a bit more or within a couple of ounces of the M&P. Loaded though and the steel M&P goes over the weight of the G19 by a bit. The stocks, Pachmyers rubber grips for example, may increase that as well.

My mistake and the mistake of two other shooters at a local gunatorium recently was based on picking up both guns empty side by side and holding them and subjectively weighing them. We all agreed and were surprised that the M10 felt lighter than the G19. Still feels lighter but that is just balance. I don't think this point is particular to Glocks. Some of the polymer framed guns, depending on barrel length, have a certain muzzle heavy feel to them when unloaded. The balance point of the gun will shift when a full mag is inserted. But a bull barrel on the M10 and it will feel a good bit heavier than the G19.

I don't recall why I made this point to begin with.

tipoc

 

[BigJMN]

hole size

So, this is my first post here, but I felt I should interject a little bit of info. I have been in emergency medicine for 10+ years in the Minneapolis area. Now people keep saying that .45, .44 mag, .40, 9mm are all better than a .38 because they make a bigger hole and I have to say, the most tore up gun shot victims when it comes to a hand gun is usually a .22 or .38 sometimes because the bullet doesn't have enough force to leave the body and will bounce around tearing up everything from the chest to the gut. Do they die immediately? No, but they don't usually have a great day. Do they get knocked down immediatly? Not usually, but they don't usually continue their fight either. I carry a Glock 21 in the winter when it is easier to conceal and a .38 sp or .380in the summer for ease of concealment. I am not scared that I will come out on the bad end of a because in reality, shot placement is more important than size.

Of course the reason I rarely see people with a gun shot would from a 12 gauge is that they go to the coroner, and I'm sure they were knocked down almost immediatly which means for home defense, a 12 gauge tactical shot gun is your best bet. hell load it with 2 rounds of #8 shot followed by a couple rounds of 00 buck if needed and you should have nothing to worry about.

 

[Old Grump]

Yep, what BigJMN said. I shoot magnums and I carry magnum loads outside the house but my bedside gun is 38spcl LSWC 158 gr. from my bed to the door boogerman is in trouble. Outside plinking or shooting small game with a centerfire the 38 spcl beats the heck out of the cost of the magnums and the 44 spcl. What can it do, it can hit a 5 gallon bucket at 200 yards and it can bust up a 2 liter bottle of water at 25 yards and a friend of mine has killed every pig but one with a 38 spcl.

So who cares about the Glock it wasn't part of the question, who cares about the 44 magnum, or the 44 spcl or the 45 colt or the 40 cal or the 10 MM, or the 9 MM, they weren't part of the question.

 

[khest]

Just some information about the military use of the .38 special. The US military used the 38 special Smith and Wesson's until the 90s when they switched out the M9 pistol. Various type of ball ammo were created for different uses by the military. I recall my father an Air Force SP complaining of the switch from revolver to M9 semi-auto.

Source Wikipedia

 

[Sport45]

Now people keep saying that .45, .44 mag, .40, 9mm are all better than a .38 because they make a bigger hole and I have to say, the most tore up gun shot victims when it comes to a hand gun is usually a .22 or .38 sometimes because the bullet doesn't have enough force to leave the body and will bounce around tearing up everything from the chest to the gut.

Welcome to The Firing Line!

Great first post. I agree with everything you said except the part about the bullets bouncing around inside the shootee. If a round had enough energy to do that it would have enough energy to pass through.

 

[hogdoc357]

Many have strong opinions about this, BUT...the .38 cal has stopped many a bad guy over the years. I personally carry either Buffalo Bore 150 gr. 38 spl Hard Cast Wadcutter OR Carbon DPX .38+P in my Ruger LCR...and I never feel under-gunned.

 

[Jayhawkhuntclub]

Quote:
When it comes to handguns, I want to use a load that gives me the maximum advantage at protecting my life and my loved ones life.

And you believe that 6 shots of .44magnum in a lightweight revolver fits that description?

I guess it does if you plan on only firing one shot. If additional shots are required, something a little more controllable will offer a huge benefit in terms of the speed and accuracy of any additional shots after the first one.

It's common for people to focus exclusively on terminal performance when choosing a defensive handgun. Terminal performance is important, but it's also important to have adequate capacity, good shootability and skill. Given that skill comes from practice, that last requirement implies that it's important to have a self-defense handgun/ammo combo that allows at least a reasonable amount of practice, both in terms of economics and ergonomics.
Quote:
Bullet design and diameter plays a more important part.

I've got to say that it's hard to take a statement like this coming from someone who clearly didn't even know the bullet diameters of the calibers under discussion until they were posted on this thread and who listed, as evidence that +P was obsolete, a number of bullet designs that are all available in factory +P ammunition.
Quote:
Muzzle energy doesn't kill people.

This is a meaningless statement. Bullets without muzzle energy don't move. Any bullet that moves has muzzle energy as a consequence of that motion. Since stationary bullets are harmless, muzzle energy is an absolute prerequisite for a bullet to be lethal.
Quote:
So how EXACTLY does more FPS = "better"???

Whether you favor energy or momentum, expansion or penetration, you need sufficient velocity to achieve it. Increasing velocity increases both energy and momentum. All else being equal and assuming a reasonable increase in velocity and proper bullet design, velocity will make expansion more reliable. All else being equal, and again assuming a reasonable increase in velocity and proper bullet design, more velocity will result in more penetration.

I guess what I'm saying is that you don't appear to have a handle on even the basics of this rather complicated topic and yet you're authoritatively making unqualified and unsupported statements about what's important and what's not important.

It's not a recipe for building credibility, but it is guaranteed to keep the discussion lively...
Quote:
My bullet and gun choice for home defense is MY business based on my own situation.

Sure, I agree. If you want to use a what is "basically a hunting caliber" (your definition from page 3) in your home defense handgun, it's your business. But it's definitely an unorthodox choice and you shouldn't be surprised to get responses indicating why it's not exactly mainstream.

This is probably the best post in this thread. Nice work John!

 

[Mike Irwin]

In 5 pages of posts, I think this one is, by far, the best:

"What can it do? It can make it possible for you to defend the lives of you and your loved ones, should the need arise.

What can't it do? It can't do a damned thing on it's own. You have to be willing to become proficient with it. But I guess the same holds true with any weapon."

We've gone round and round on this subject. Maybe some ideas have been changed, but I really doubt it.

I think after five pages of good discussion, this thread has earned a break.

Thank you, everyone, for keeping it on a nice, even keel.