What can and what can't a .38 special do?

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My standared answer, whenever this discussion comes up, is to quote my first firearms instructor when I went on the job. My duty gun was a Smith Mod. 10, bull barrel, in .38 Spl.
In his first lecture to us at the range, he explained that there are more powerful guns out there, and some day we might have to face one of them in the hands of someone out to do us harm. He then came out with the following statement, which I have remembered to this day.
He said,
"If you doubt the ability of the service load to protect you, it is relatively easy to double its stopping power. All you have to do is pull the trigger again. If your life is on the line, never rely on just one shot."
I have never had any problem with carrying a .38Spl., and I worked in some of the toughest neighborhoods, in one of the toughest citys in the world.
I still carry a .38 Spl. (642) on a daily basis, and do not feel, in any way, that I am, or have ever been, undergunned.
Just my opinion.
 
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A 38 spcl can be shot fast in a small pistol by most people. That is what it does best. 357, 40 and 45 are too much for a lot of people to shoot fast, even with training.
 
It was politically acceptable. It also got a lot of cops killed because the bullets of the day (round nose lead) were dismal failures.
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Mostly it was a failure because most cops could not hit their target. Big city police departments with a training program still have a dismal hit rate of anywhere from 17% to 40%, small departments where most officers have had minimal training and that only at the academy are worse unless they were gun people before they became officers. Switching from 38 spcl LRN to 9MM JRN only meant you had more bullets to miss with.

I am confident enough in my 38 spcl 158 gr LSWC that it is my home defense load in my night stand gun for that dark thirty at night Bozo who wants to get hurt. It is good enough that I have hunted and shot rabbits at 7 yds to 50+ yards using both SWC and LRN. I wouldn't want to hunt deer with it but I can guarantee a small 4 legged critter with teeth and bad intentions like a feral dog, coyote or wolf would not want to get shot with it.
 
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"What I meant by relatively powerful, Mr. Deputy276, and relative to other handgun rounds only, was that in absolute terms of muzzle energy, some .38 special loads were as powerful as a .45 auto. You can argue all day if you want if one were as effective as the other. No statistic can convince anyone one way or the other. I've learned that much here. It is more perception than anything else and after all, a man has to be confident in his weapon. But the .45 auto was not the only cartridge that was held to be super-powerful. Bill Jordan wrote that he never discovered where the bullet went the first time he fired a .357 magnum because he was sure the gun was pointed at the target when he closed his eyes and pulled the trigger."

Muzzle energy doesn't kill people. And the reason Uncle Sammie went with the .45ACP was because the .38 couldn't get the job done. That's enough argument for me. The training methods for the .357 (shoot wimpy wadcutters and carry super-max loads) as well as the ammo of the day guaranteed that unless you got the BG with the first shot, you wouldn't get him with the remaining 5. As we entered the 80s, bad guys were carrying much more manageable 9MM with a lot more ammo if they missed. Police WERE outgunned, unless you lived in East Podunk, Missouri.
 
I love the .38 Special.

The variety of loads mean you can do just about anything with it. 148-gr. wadcutter Target loads, 158-gr. LRN or SWC hunting loads for small game or varmints, either for self-defense loads.
 
And the reason Uncle Sammie went with the .45ACP was because the .38 couldn't get the job done.
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Do you have a source for that? Last time I checked, Uncle Sam was issuing .38's to pilots until the middle of the 1980's.

the ammo of the day guaranteed that unless you got the BG with the first shot, you wouldn't get him with the remaining 5.
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Also inaccurate. While some officers did have trouble with the recoil of .357 loadings, that's a training issue, not the fault of the load. Furthermore, few departments actually issued .357 Magnum loads for general field use. Most officers, even on the federal level, carried .38's, even if the gun was chambered for .357.

The .38 isn't a barn-burner. It's not much of a hunting load for things over 80lbs or so. Those are its deficiencies.

Its merits are that it's accurate, easy to control, and very effective with modern loadings. It certainly has its place, even among newer developments.
 
Do you have a source for that? Last time I checked, Uncle Sam was issuing .38's to pilots until the middle of the 1980's.
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I think he's referring to the Phillipine-American War, when the local Moro tribesman were fighting through injuries sustained from the then-standard .38 Long Colt pistols, with the help of some "performance-enhancing" drugs. The U.S. forces temporarily switched to .45 Colt revolvers, and found the heavier bullets to be more effective. This prompted the search for a new service pistol, and the criteria of "not less than .45 caliber" was put forth, along with a preference for a semi-automatic design, if possible.

As for the fact that American aviators were issued .38 revolvers until fairly recently, that doesn't say much for their suitability as a combat weapon. I'm a flight officer in the Navy, and the pistol I'm given when I go flying is strictly a last-ditch survival tool - effectiveness and stopping power aren't primary considerations. If I have to bail out, my new mission becomes getting myself back to friendly forces, hopefully without encountering any enemies at all. I don't transform into a ground soldier and start looking for bad guys to kill.
 
Just this past Sunday morning,,,

I had a guy shooting next to me with a Glock in .40,,,
I was popping away with my model 18 in .22 LR,,,
Then I changed up to my Model 15 in .38.

He asked what I just fired and I said .38 Special,,,
His snarky comment was, "I guess it's better than .22".

He was shooting a man sized silhouette and his shots were all over the place,,,
I fired and knocked over five 20-ounce water bottler with five shots

My reply was "Yep, especially when I hit what I aim for".

But seriously now,,,
We Americans have always believed that bigger is better,,,
It's a fallacy we embraced and grew to love right after we finished with World War Two.

Modern designs have replaced the ineffective lead round nose bullet,,,
Load up with HP's, SWCFP's, or even just wad-cutters,,,
The .38 special will do the job very nicely.

Aarond

.
 
I'll tell you something a .38 Specail AND a .357 Magnum can't do...become as good as a.44 Special. :D

Why subject yourself to excessive recoil of +P and .357 Mag when you can get a .44 Special that is comfortable to shoot and more efffective? I remember when the popular thing to do was to take a Model 28 S&W and have it converted to .44 Special.
 
Bad bullet not bad cartridge

The failures of the 38 Special to stop assailants was the fault of the 158 gr round nose bullet. In the days of low performance projectiles, the only remedy was to increase bullet diameter with a larger caliber or to increase expansion with a higher velocity. Thus 357s and 45 ACPs were found to be better stoppers.

With modern bullets, calibers like 38 special are capable of inflicting quickly incapacitating wounds and have the advantage of easier carry. If a gun is easier to carry, it is more likely to be carried. If it is easier and cheaper to shoot, it will be more fun to practice with.

Although I don't own a 38, I would feel adequately protected with any good 5 shot revolver. i currently carry a Kel-Tec P11 and am thinking of trading it off for a revolver as I have never had a revolver fail with factory ammo. Even the ultra reliable Glock 22 I carried on duty before I retired failed to feed a few times with factory ammo. Now that I am a civilian again, I am extremely unlikely to encounter a situation needing more than 5 shots to resolve.
 
Again...why use a .38 snub that HAS to expand to be effective, when you can use a .44 Special that is already effective without expansion, and is just as small to carry? :confused:
 
Why subject yourself to excessive recoil of +P and .357 Mag when you can get a .44 Special that is comfortable to shoot and more efffective?
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I don't perceive the recoil of .357 Magnum to be excessive in the least. In fact, recoil from a Model 28 with .357's feels roughly equivalent to recoil from a Beretta 92 to me. The .38 +P loads are downright mild in comparison.

The only time I'd consider .357 to be excessive would be out of a small-frame snubnose, in which case .44 Special would be pretty brutal as well.
 
Coming into this discussion late, no doubt this has been mentioned, but...

The .38 special was good enough in the day when the bad guys were not carrying semi-auto handguns or semi-auto rifles, chambered in calibers that can cut through cars like a hot knife through butter.

Times change. Guns must as well.

Respectfully offered, as always, FWIW, and YMMV.
 
Let me start by saying that I am not an expert in ballistics. Not by a long shot. Yes, the .357, the .44 Mag, and others start with a larger bore diameter and, consequently, tend to make bigger holes in BGs, provided that you can hit your target. Bigger holes are better than smaller holes. That said, the .38spl has a place.

All handguns are a compromise between power, capacity, weight, and (where CC is an issue) concealability. As I've heard it said, "if I'd known I was going to a gunfight, I would've taken a rifle." Those of us who are unwilling or unable to carry, during the course of our everyday lives, pistols large enough to chamber Big Calibers have to find our compromise elsewhere. Don't get me wrong. I like the Big Calibers. If the opportunity presents itself to carry a larger caliber pistol, I'm perfectly happy to do so. But I don't really want to carry an extra 3 lbs of gear for a 15-minute run to the grocery store. I want something that I can shove in a pocket, and be on my way. Further, I cannot carry in court, and I spend a fair amount of time there. That means that a pocket pistol is simply much, much easier for me to deal with in my daily routine.

A few months back, I shot an LCR in both .357 Mag and .38 Spl. I think the .38 was +P, but I can't swear to that. I'll be the first to admit that my grouping at ~10 yards left lots to be desired with the .357. Switching to the .38 +P made a HUGE difference in the size of my groups. Could I learn to shoot a .357 snubby? Sure, if I had the time and the finances. Unfortunately, both are in short supply in my life these days. I'm confident that I could hit my target with a .38 in a snubnose revolver. I'm significantly less confident that I can do the same with .357 in the same snubnose. As I've often seen posted here, "a hit with a .22 beats a miss with a .45."
 
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Deputy276 said:
Again...why use a .38 snub that HAS to expand to be effective, when you can use a .44 Special that is already effective without expansion, and is just as small to carry?
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Because I've yet to find a .44 Special that can be dropped in a front pants pocket. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of the .44 Special and especially like Skeeter's Load, but the size of the revolver itself makes all the difference sometimes.

If I'm woods cruising, likely as not I'll have a .44 magnum strapped, generally with Skeeter's Load in the cylinder. It's good for 95% of what I intend to do with a handgun. If I'm wandering the street, or lounging in my easy chair, the J-Frame will be in my pants pocket.
 
There are clearly some big bore believers here. I went through that phase, too, with two .44 special S&W revolvers. Truth be told, they really weren't any bigger than the Model 27s and Model 28 that I had. So I guess you have a point. Later I got a Model 29 and played around with that for a while. I presently am living without any revolvers.
 
.38 is my new favorite cartridge. It will do everything I need it to do, until I run into something it can't do. Of course, that's true about any handgun and most rifles. The .38 is cheap to shoot, I shoot it well, and it's a pleasure to shoot. There isn't a lot of recoil, the firearms of good make are accurate, and the brass doesn't go flying everywhere. I wouldn't trade my .38s for any other cartridge. However, I do have other calibers, such as .45 and .22. I really don't feel any better off with a .45, as I've shot the .38 so much more.
 
"In fact, recoil from a Model 28 with .357's feels roughly equivalent to recoil from a Beretta 92 to me. The .38 +P loads are downright mild in comparison."

Yes, and the 28 is just SOOOOO wonderful to carry around all day. :rolleyes:

"Yes, the .357, the .44 Mag, and others start with a larger bore diameter and..."

Wrong. Last time I checked my math .357 was SMALLER than the .38.

"Because I've yet to find a .44 Special that can be dropped in a front pants pocket."

Let me introduce you to the Charter Arms Bulldog:

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Same size as a Colt Detective special or S&W Model 60. But in .44 Special. As long as you don't get stoopid and try and use hot loads (no reason to use +P or hot loads in ANYTHING any more, thanks to modern bullet technology), it will last a lifetime. And it has a lifetime guarantee and excellent customer service too.
 
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