What caliber for...

I've canoed since 1963, the first few years with just a Crosman 38T .22 caliber CO2 pellet gun, then a .22 rifle, briefly, and then always with a shotgun (during waterfowl season)and a Colt New Frontier .22. In all those years there was one instance where a snake tried to get in the canoe. Unable to tell if it was venomous or not, we dispatched it with a load of fours from a 12 ga. Another time I flipped the canoe (the only time ever in over fifty years of canoeing) in a rain-swollen river I had no business getting into in the first place, and the old Colt, in a full flap cavalry holster, survived fifteen minutes in raging flood rapids. Gotta love those cavalry holsters. A few years ago I gave up the Colt to my youngest son (the little snot has gotten real good at talking me out of guns), and replaced it with a Single Six in .32 H&R magnum, which has since been replaced by a couple of S7s in .327 FM. I hardly ever shoot anything anymore but the .327s. It's my new .22 and .357 all rolled into one convenient package. .357 punch, if I want it, in a .22 frame. And a single action to boot. What else could one want? I like it so much, I've done something I've never done with a handgun before, ordered and installed custom, hand made grips from a chunk of premium grade walnut I've had laying around for years. Pachmeyer and Hogue just weren't going to cut it. I am all about the .327 these days, and boost it every chance I get. Check it out in Single Seven (it's a seven shot six shooter, just like Handsome Stranger carried in "The Villian") or SP101 or LCR. BTW, Federal factory 100gr soft points do 1600 fps from my 4 5/8" S7 barrel, and 2241fps out of the 20" Marlin 1894CB reamed to .327 by Ranger Point Precision (thanks, boys it still shoots great). That's some respectable smack right there.
Click to expand...

OK, deserted, you have quite a few good bits of info in there to talk about.


I didn't even think about a flap holster. It slows down the draw, but in a kayak that may tip it may not be a bad idea if I don't go with a gun with a lanyard. Of course, I've never had my kayak tip, so most likely, the main thing will be water getting into the kayak from the paddle (happens every time) and the gun getting wet (so stainless, polymer or aluminum is still important, but submerged isn't all that likely). Now, a kayak is more likely to tip than a canoe (I love canoeing too, but those I only rent), but it is far from certain in a kayak too.

I wasn't even thinking about .327mag, but that could be fun at the range, and make a good self defense gun when not out on the water. On the water, in a J-frame sized gun it will have 1 extra round v. the J-frame which is nice. I'd definitely like the Single Seven with two extra rounds vs. a J-frame .38/.357 or 1 extra round vs. a K-frame. Though, it won't provide the cheap practice or even higher capacity of a .22 when at the range.
 
If your biggest concern is snakes, I assume you'll be wanting to use snakeshot in the revolver? If yes, anything under .38 is a no go. The .22 barely holds any shot and I'm not aware of anyone that makes .32 snakeshot.

Pick whatever .38/.357 you want.
 
Wish I had a photo to show you. I carry my blank gun on a very heavy cotton string, probably closer to something like cotton cloths line. Have a deal on the bottom of the handgun that came with it. One end of the string is attached to the gun, the other has a dog snap on it and I hook it to a belt loop. Probably 30" piece of string. Then the gun ride's either in my back pocket on in a strap down holster. That ring on the bottom of the handgun could probably put on any revolver fairly easily. I've never dropped or lost a blank gun.
 
I think a great solution would be the NAA Black Widow with both cylinders. The cost is reasonable, the gun is very well made, super easy to carry and weather-proof. With .22 magnum ammo, it can be submerged and will still fire. Somebody had their NAA go through the wash and the ammo still fired. .22lr ammo will usually fail when it gets wet. The .22 magnum snake shot is a lot better than .22lr shotshells, and very effective within 10-12 feet.

I have the excellent 3" S&W Model 63 but the Black Widow would be my first choice for kayaking.
 
The .327 really shines with hand loads. Cheaper than .22LR these days and way more fun to shoot. Bullet weights from 60 to 135 grains, it is not just a range or sometime use round. It will do just about anything you want a revolver cartridge to do, on a .22 frame. You could probably even get a useful amount of #8 or 9 shot in one, though I personally have never found any use at all for shotshell pistol rounds. I've used full flap holsters for decades, and only last week switched to a clamshell for the one gun, but just to show off those fancy custom grips. :) The idea of going overboard with a pistol on a lanyard, coming out of a holster and wrapping around ones neck at a most inopportune time, or otherwise providing an entanglement...And this 4 5/8" carries real nice. My first Single Seven was a 7 1/2", only because I'd been carrying 7 1/2" revolvers for decades, so didn't even give it a second thought. But my lifestyle has changed, I don't spend so much time horseback or motorcycle anymore, and the shorter barrel is handier. I take jack rabbits with it most mornings when walking the dog, and it flattens em out lots better than a .22 ever did. 100 grain boolits at 1250fps are great plinking and jack rabbit loads. I appreciate your reading and responding to my ideas. I've got a million canoe/dog/duck hunting stories. Got my 300 Miler Canoe merit badge at 15, and it is still to me the most practical boat on the water. Pole, paddle, outboard, gas or electric, drag, pull, push and carry, sailed them with outriggers and sideboards, lashed two together with a couple 4x8' plywood sheets for decking and had a cheap take-down catamaran that just flew with a 7.5 hp outboard. But I digress. The .327 is a serious contender for what you have in mind, and then some. Had it been available in 1974 I never would have bought that Colt .22. Give it a try somehow, maybe a range rental. I bet you'd really like it.
 
In our part of Tn between mtn ranges there are no Moccasins, on down a bit into Alabama and up into Va. We have a few rattlesnakes but more Copperheads.
our peculiar damp weather and cool and cold winters causes fungus and diseases to kill most of them.Haven't seen a Rattler in a long time and only the traces of Copperheads.
We have a lot of black Racers, King Snakes and others that will eat them.
Haven't even seen a dead snake of any sort on the roads around here since May.
May be all the rain and steamy heat.
Also we have something called Milk Sickness that still exist and kills everything that eats the greenery and anything that eats the dead animals, after a dew etc.
Something in the soil and only in places with the soil not plowed or not returned to nature for long time. I don't know if it has anything to do with it or not.
They let a bunch of Rattlers out a few years ago on Monteagle Mtn and other places after some know it all Biologists? said people had killed them out. There were still a few round but our environment has killed most of them I think now.
The viruses I talked about I saw on a small Rat snake.It's skin kinda looked like it was going to shed but it was sticky and so on. It didn't live but a little bit.
 
Would a tazer into the water near a snake stop it? Hand held prod?

Don't give me any flames for suggesting it, it's kind of obvious that he shouldn't use it with his hands really wet, or under the water. Given the chance, he should have his partner push the button.

Maybe this would also be useful against tubers who are ruining the fishing.
 
I think a great solution would be the NAA Black Widow with both cylinders.
Click to expand...
It isn't legal in MD. The only MD legal NAA revolver is The Earl, which is their biggest and still only five rounds. I might get it for fun, but not for anything serious
 
If your biggest concern is snakes, I assume you'll be wanting to use snakeshot in the revolver?
Click to expand...
Only if people convince me that snake shot is better, more likely I'll carry a JHP, and I definitely don't plan to use snakeshot if I get a .22
 
chaim,

I have to tell you that you're over-thinking this gun-snake stuff. Go have a good time and forget about it. If a snake did decide to come up your oar you wouldn't get a shot at it anyway. Just throw your oar out and retrieve it afterwards or forget it. The odds against it happening are slim.
 
.22 shot

We had a serious rat problem in our shed a few years back, to the point that bamaboy and I would have nightly rat hunts. We started with a .22 Bearcat and the crimped .22 shotshells. Donned eye and ear protection and went rat hunting. The drill was to go out to the shed in the dark, one guy running the light, the other the shooter. We took turns nightly on who shined and who shot. When you heard one, you tried to frame it in the beam of the flashlight and the shooter did his best to hit it. If we just flicked on the shed lights, the rats would scamper....no shot. Shots were in the 10 ft range. Performance of the .22 lr shot loads was at best dismal. I don't know if we ever did kill one with the Bearcat.

We switched to a single shot bolt .22, and did a bit better. But not much. All the rifle seemed to do was change a 10 ft shot, to an 8 ft one due to the longer barrel. Some shots for pattern (finally) showed that 6 ft was about all you could count on with the crimped .22 shotshells. Even then a rat could scamper off, to stink later.

So....I would not count on .22 shot shells, at least the crimped variety, to accomplish much on a snake either, outside of about 6 ft.

So...how about a .44 mag, loaded with the Speer shot capsules? I loaded a couple up, , using shot scavanged from old rabbit loads, #6 shot. I even cut off the base of the capsule plugs, and glued the bases on, so as to increase payload. There was no Internet in those days, and I could not readily find any data, so I charged the cases with 5.0 grs of Unique, which seemed pretty mild when compared to regular bulleted loads......big mistake.

That night on the rat hunt, I shot at one a wall 2x4 at about 10 ft away. Killed the rat, good. Went through the galvanized tin sheet, at least it was the wall and not the roof. Couldn't leak, but not so good. On the other side of the tin wall was my beagle kennel. Not good at all. I had no idea the stuff would shoot through that tin. None of the .22's had shown a hint of punching through the tin. Fortunately, , none of my beagles got hit, the pellets went out over the runs and not into them. Stupid. Lucky.

Acquired some #8 shot from a shotshell buddy. Changed to Bullseye, and changed charge weight to 3.5 grains or so. The smaller pellets and reduced velocity would not punch the tin, and provided rat killing power to 10-15 ft.
Would work on snakes too I bet. Don't know if it would shoot through the floor of a kayak!!!!!!!!!
 
Well, as much as I appreciate your bringing up snakes, vis-à-vis the bear/snake ratio of posts, if you are going to go KAYAKING I just feel compelled to mention the very real danger of a bear eating your kayak as this young lass found out. (

For the remote possibility that everyone on this site has NOT seen the video a link to it is included below.) FYI the video, IMhO proves that a loud, high pitched whine will NOT repel bears.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nU5cMZymSr0

Good luck.
 
No such thing as an aluminum or polymer .22 revolver.
If Kaa drops in, it's not a good idea to shoot him. Sink your boat. And shot fired out of a rifled barrel flies in a spiral. Sends the pellets all over leaving big holes in the pattern.
Anyway, it's best you learn something about Kaa. He doesn't like you, but won't attack you either, unless you bother him.
https://www.livescience.com/43597-facts-about-water-moccasin-cottonmouth-snakes.html
http://www.snake-removal.com/watermoccasin.html
Don't be shooting alligators with a .22. However, Asheville is 2,134 ft above sea level in The Blue Ridge Mountains. You're more likely to be eaten by a bear than an alligator.
 
It's possible that his biggest risk is a big angry sow.

No, that was not referring to any female he might be boating with.
 
No gators around Asheville, NC and the surrounding areas. Biggest threat would be some of the poisonous snakes like the copperhead and rattlers, along with Black Bears. I don't want to offend anyone but Asheville is one of the most liberal Cities on the East Coast. Don't believe me just go down town and spend some time. Get away from there in some of the outlying counties and you have a paradise. Great Smoky Mountains, camping, trout fishing and so on. Also the Appalachian Trail comes through that area if you are into that sort of stuff.
 
Okay, my suggestion is a revolver chambered in .38 or .357 mag.

Yes, snake shot patterns expand very quickly, making it easier to hit a snake head from a distance than a .22lr round. The longest shot with my Ruger SP-101 I ever took on a snake was about 12 ft. Pattern was probably about 2 ft. Maybe more.

Snakes are pretty tough, but also pretty fragile in the head. Lots of small light bones in there. If even one piece of shot hits the average snake in the head, it's usually curtains for the snake.

I highly doubt you'd need a set of speedloaders filled with snake shot rounds. Snakes don't hunt in packs. In fact, 99% of the time you should be able to easily out-distance any moc in your kayak. Backwards even. They can crawl/swim quickly for short bursts; maybe 3-4 seconds, but then after that they slow way down to their 'cruise' speed.

Have fun on your trip.
 
I can't imagine why a snake would even be interested in a canoe. They aren't drowning and need rescue. People are too big to eat. They have large predators. Snakes aren't stupid.

If one is approaching a boat it is almost certainly confused or it is trying to get to things disturbed by the wake. A seal won't go after a shark, but might snap at some of the disturbed off catch.
 
Briandg;

It happens all the time, though I have no idea why. When I was a kid in OK, still dreaming and trying to become a pro bass fisherman, I had rattlers and water mocs try to swim over and try to crawl into my jonboat at least a dozen times. This was a common enough occurrence that at several tournaments warnings were announced before the start about it.

Since I started fly fishing about ten years ago, I've had at least four rattlers try to swim over and crawl onto my float tube or inflatable pontoon. I've never had to shoot any of them; usually a few slaps of the water near them is enough to get them to change their minds.

But as for what they might be thinking, that's probably anyone's guess.
 
Logs? River banks? Alright, because of your reported experience, ill believe that snakes aren't too perceptive.

In my teens we had a family that lived in such abject poverty that a dollar would make them wet their pants. I found two of the kids under a bridge once when I was fishing a small creek, ten years old or so. They were eating a roasted moccasins. They were actually living there. They were the keenans.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top