what caliber do you use, and what do bad guys use

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I don't think the outside of a pistol case typically gets hot enough to burn off fingerprints or DNA. Ever touch a freshly fired case? They're usually warm if the gun isn't already hot, not hot enough to burn me. I've seen fingerprints survive significant heat on glass. I'm not buying that finger prints on casings get 'burned off' that easily. Never heard about that in my forensics class either.

It's more likely that the chamber would 'wipe' the print off or damage/disfigure it, as the case is expanded and being ejected.


I have used cyanoacrylate ester to recover fingerprints from spent casings many times.
- Crime Scene Detective
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I got the information from my daughter who actually runs a crime scene unit and not from an internet post or a class. Believe what you want, there is no point to a debate.

edit: changed "discussion" to "debate"
 
it says in the article that a spent 9mm is about 145degrees. I don't think that would be hot enough to burn away a very oily print. your car's hood gets hotter than that on a sunny day. as for the article not being relevant today, I would think if they were able to do it 15 years ago, they would surely be able to do it today, even better.
 
I've seen fingerprints very permanently tarnish brass cases- some people's sweat/body oils do that.

I don't know what quality of print they need, but you could see the pattern of the fingerprint on the brass.....
 
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I don't know what criminals carry. I do not associate with criminals. I use a 9 myself. Cops I talk to at the range don't discuss police matters openly. The cops say it is department policy in most cities to not discuss police business. They will tell some tall fish stories. Very tall fish stories.
 
WilddBill45 said:
It seems that bad guys like .38 special, with the mouse calibers ... .25 and .32 ... beating out .357 mags, and other calibers...
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I don't believe that. At least in my corner of the universe, bad guys carry whatever they can steal, or buy on the street, but as a general rule they are NOT carrying 38 Special revolvers. Most are carrying Glocks, predominantly in 9mm and secondarily in .40 S&W.

But they'll take what they can get. Several years ago the owner of a gun shop in "the city" (not New York City, but what passes for "city" around here) told me (and several other hangers on) the sorry sage of one bad guy who was dumber than the average bear.

One day a gentleman of color entered the shop, and asked for a box of 9mm "bullets." The gunshop guy (hereinafter GSG) sold him a box of 9mm hollow points.

Later the same afternoon, the gentleman returned, accompanied by another gentleman of color. "These bullets don't fit my gun," with which he displayed a Beretta 92. GSG said, "They have to, that's what the Beretta shoots." The customer insisted the bullets wouldn't fit, so GSG took the pistol and the bullets with the intention of showing the young gentleman how to load his firearm.

But ... the bullets wouldn't fit into the magazine. GSG was getting increasingly puzzled, until he happened to glance at the slide of the pistol, which read "8mm blank." Sure enough, closer examination proved that the barrel was blocked off and it was indeed a blank-firing replica.

When GSG explained this to the customer, the companion started laughing hysterically and came out with "You dumb n*****, you done bought yo'sef a TOY gun, [mf]er." GSG said, "Hey, you can't call him names like that." The companion said, "Sure I can, because I'm black too. But YOU can't call him that."

But wait ... we're not done yet. The two gentlemen departed the shop, with the companion berating the would-be shootist incessantly. That should have been the end of the story, except that a couple of months later another young gentleman of color walked in and asked for a box of 9mm bullets for his new Beretta ...

This was several years ago. We still wonder just how many suckers have bought that thing, thinking it was a real Beretta 92.

My point being that the bad guys aren't interested in .38 Special revolvers, unless that's all they can get. They want "automatics," preferably Glocks or Berettas, in that order. They get them on street corners or in back alleys, wherever they can find a seller.
 
9mm or 38spl+p. Depends on my mood. Lately I have been favoring the 38Spl+p. On me, revolvers seem to conceal much better. Maybe because the back of the gun is more rounded.

How would I know what a bad guy would carry? I never asked one.
 
Modern Ammo plus Shot Placement will STOP a bad guy!

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I am a great believer that larger caliber will guarantee to stop bad guys specially with a couple of well place shots into the sternum or just go for the head shot and end the fight quicker.
No handgun calibre is guaranteed to stop a bad guy.

Caliber alone does not guarantee to stop a bad guy! But Proper Modern Ammuniton like Hornady Critical Defense, Glasser Safety Slugs, Liberty Civil Defense Ammunition 45 ACP +P 78 Grain Fragmenting Hollow Point Lead-Free traveling at a Muzzle Velocity: 1900 fps producing a Muzzle Energy: 625 ft. lbs take that with a double tap to the sternum and a single shot to the brain pan will STOP a bad guy.
 
The majority of my handguns are and have been 9mm. Real world studies have shown the .40 and .45 are on par with the 9mm for stopping threats. Stopping threats is not how well it performs in ballistic gel so don't get the two confused. So given that one works equally as well as the other, the added capacity, minimal recoil, and faster more accurate followup shots with the 9mm for me make it the clear winner.

My go to long guns are a 12g shotgun and an AR in 5.56.
 
I really don't care what 'they' use

My always is a 22LR.
My car gun is (currently) a 357 Magnum.
My favorite is a 41 AE.
My options are 22LR, 38 Special, 357 Magnum, 9x19, 9x21, 40 S&W, 400 CorBon, 41 Action Express, 44 Magnum, and 45 ACP.

Currently :D
 
Liberty Civil Defense Ammunition 45 ACP +P 78 Grain Fragmenting Hollow Point Lead-Free traveling at a Muzzle Velocity: 1900 fps producing a Muzzle Energy: 625 ft. lbs take that with a double tap to the sternum and a single shot to the brain pan will STOP a bad guy.
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.... or it could disintegrate when it hits bone (sternum) and give the assailant a pair of "Hickeys From Hell" ....... that'd surely tick 'em off, if nothing else!

I'd avoid gimicky ammo..... an expanding bullet that holds together at around the speed of sound has, to me, shown to be the best compromise between energy delivered, penetration, and controllability .....
 
.... or it could disintegrate when it hits bone (sternum) and give the assailant a pair of "Hickeys From Hell" ....... that'd surely tick 'em off, if nothing else!

I'd avoid gimicky ammo..... an expanding bullet that holds together at around the speed of sound has, to me, shown to be the best compromise between energy delivered, penetration, and controllability .....
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+1

A 78 grain .451 cal projectile has a sectional density of .055

Compare that to a typical lead 00 buckshot pellet
.33 cal 53.8grain SD= .71

In fact, that 73 grain bullet has a SD most comparable to #3 buck shot. On top of that, the light little bullet is meant to break apart. It's not going very deep and there'd be significant risk of the bullet not penetrating enough to kill. It's a squirrel load.

If you can put two in the sternum and one in the head, good for you. Use any common SD ammo and you'll be fine.
 
Liberty Civil Defense Ammunition 45 ACP +P 78 Grain Fragmenting Hollow Point Lead-Free traveling at a Muzzle Velocity: 1900 fps producing a Muzzle Energy: 625 ft. lbs
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Looks like you are planning to Math your assailant to death .....

...... if criminals were influenced by math, they'd be a working joe with a 401K instead of a drug addled desperado with a stolen Hi-Point .....
 
Quote:
Liberty Civil Defense Ammunition 45 ACP +P 78 Grain Fragmenting Hollow Point Lead-Free traveling at a Muzzle Velocity: 1900 fps producing a Muzzle Energy: 625 ft. lbs take that with a double tap to the sternum and a single shot to the brain pan will STOP a bad guy.
.... or it could disintegrate when it hits bone (sternum) and give the assailant a pair of "Hickeys From Hell" ....... that'd surely tick 'em off, if nothing else!

I'd avoid gimicky ammo..... an expanding bullet that holds together at around the speed of sound has, to me, shown to be the best compromise between energy delivered, penetration, and controllability .....

The temporary Wound Cavity created by the torquing motion of the projectile and well as the break up of large sharp pieces of the projectile will cause massive trauma to the internal organs. I get ammo after carefully checking out the manufacture and make a few calls to old military buddies that get to try all kinds of ammo or gear when it first comes out and I get a couple of boxes of ammo to see how well it works on my sidearms. after about 100rds test run where I am looking at both accuracy and reliability then I add it to my EDC loadout. I always get similar carry rigs even if they are different platforms. By using the same type of holster and double magazine carrier I know that if I cam carrying my Sig1911 TacOps, Glock 22 40SW, Sig P226 40SW or my Glock 19 9mm I know that the draw is the same and the magazine will be in the same place so I have the overlapping muscle memory. I figure that one full magazine plus 2 additional mags will get me thru a firefight if I am ever in the wrong place at the wrong time. No sure what the majority of member's background is but I am a former US Navy Aviation Tech that also crossed trained in Security and Firearms Competition. I also made great life long friends in many different Military Communities that test and evaluate the latest and greatest gear and all sorts of firearm related items.
 
If it worked as well as you advertise it, it'd be adopted by ....well, everybody.

In six months, after this thing has taken the self defense ammo market by storm ..... or not...... you can tell us you told us so ......or not. Betting my 2 cents on not, m'self.

No sure what the majority of member's background is but I am a former US Navy Aviation Tech that also crossed trained in Security and Firearms Competition. I also made great life long friends in many different Military Communities that test and evaluate the latest and greatest gear and all sorts of firearm related items.
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...... ;)
 
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