What Are Your Children Learning?

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Don't get me wrong. I am not fretting or worrying. If that was the case I would have rolled over a long time ago. Talk about curfews, our Gov. Celluci is proposing a daytime curfew here in Massachusetts. Even without the law we have a friend thats gets pulled over in her town on the pretext of checking seat-belts. She won't take her kids out during school hours, even to doctor's appointments anymore.
And we have had the landmark cases. Thanks to HSLDA we won. But individual districts still pull their BS.
Ever wonder what it was like living in Germany in the 20s and 30s before the Nazis came to power "peacefully".
 
Don't you have any affordable private schools ? I went to what they call a christian community school for half my years at school. People on average incomes can afford them. In fact there has been a growth in private schools lately. Not the rich snobby ones but mainly religious comunity based ones. Muslims and others are also setting up their own schools.
Of course the teachers in the government system are all coplaining because private schools get government funding. The fact is when someone goes t a private school less is spenton them if they were in a government schools. The teachers in the government system hate the fact that the kids can be taugh christian or other values and not force fed their usually left wing crap.
Private schools only make up maybe 10% of them anyway.
We also have a lot of catholic schools which are pretty cheap. They would be better than government schools but still get taught anti gun crap.
A few years ago my old school actually had shooting for sport.
 
Private schools can be pricey. Yes the parochial schools are an affordable alternative. Unfortunately the sex ed has been introduced from K1 on up. I think they call it the Pittsburgh curriculum. And in a lot of cases they use the same text books as the public schools. In their case they don't send social workers and police to drag you back to the system, they just tell you that if you don't like it leave. I have already been that route.
 
To Frank, I agree that there is a duluge of potential damage available in the pop media. However, public schools provide a "captive" audience to a number of dangerous agendas. Teachers give children the tools to learn, not talking heads. To Paul, As a childless supporter of homeschooling, I want you to know that many like myself who are forced to pay for a totally inadequate educational beauracracy, do support your efforts. I wonder how much of an untapped army of local citizens exists who are not only fed up, but would be willing to participate and could offer wonderful educational opportunities to properly homeschooled students at no cost. The problem would be to match up these groups of rare individualists somehow on a local level. As a future homeschooler, I'd do it in a heartbeat, and it would be a great training opportunity. Personally, I could offer as an example a great physical laboratory for enviornmental studies for a short term project with a small group. In the process these kids could be exposed to some highly educated individuals who love what they do and could learn the science-not the politics of the planet. A couple of phone calls could get an audience with some top people in their field who would chip in who would be less inclined to align themselves with a state beauracracy. Just a thought.
 
G Freeman, we sorely need people like you willing to let our kids in and get hands-on experience! There are those out there with certain technical or scientific degrees that will teach your children those subjects, but they are few and far between.

Regarding private schools, they are not an option for us, as they are so expensive. We also might not agree with everything such schools teach, as they are usually funded by some religious group whose doctrines we don't agree with. The same goes for the parochial schools.

HSLDA has done a lot in getting home school "legalized" here in TX and deserve to be commended for their efforts.

We do not want our children to become one of the brainwashed serfs of the State. (not meant to offend anyone who has chosen to go the PS route) Children are no longer taught the "3 R's" in school these days. With GOALS 2000 on the horizon, it will only get worse, as the govt. commits the largest invasion on the family EVER in US history.
Consider also the "Children's Bill of Rights" which the UN is pushing the US to ratify. It would forbid parents from preventing their children access to any type of information, idea, activity, belief, etc.. that the child chose to expose himself to. Anyone not familiar with G2000 or the childrens BOR should check into it and find out what the UN and Big Brother have in store for us and our kids! Pretty scary stuff...


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"...What will you do without freedom? Will you fight?... Fight, and you may die, run and you'll live, at least a while. And dying, many years from now, would you be willing to trade all the days from this day to that, for just one chance, to tell our enemies, that they may take our lives, but they'll never take our FREEDOM!!!"
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je suis prest



[This message has been edited by Darthmaum (edited August 10, 1999).]
 
Like I said. If you think gun owners have had it bad. Trying being a parent, especially a home schooler. This should belp us out. The Constitution lives.

Social workers learn that U.S. Constitution applies to child abuse
investigations

U.S. Court of Appeals is unanimous: CPS cannot trample home school
family's Fourth Amendment rights

YOLO COUNTY, CA - Social workers are bound to obey the U.S.
Constitution when investigating child abuse cases, said a unanimous
three-judge panel of the Ninth Circuit U.S. Court of Appeals in an
opinion handed down Thursday, August 26, 1999.

"This opinion will have a nationwide impact. With respect to the
Fourth Amendment, the Ninth Circuit settled the social worker
question once and for all. No longer can social workers enter a home
without either a warrant or probable cause of an emergency," said
Michael Farris, lead attorney for the plaintiffs. "Child Protective
Services agencies have too many times behaved as if there is a social
worker exception to the Fourth Amendment's prohibitions against
illegal searches and seizures," Farris explained, but there is no
such exception, according to the Ninth Circuit ruling in Calabretta
v. Floyd, et al.

The Fourth Amendment rights case was originally filed February 24,
1995, by Robert and Shirley Calabretta in the Eastern District of
California federal court, after a Yolo County policeman and social
worker illegally entered the Calabretta home and strip searched their
three-year-old daughter. District Court Judge Lawrence K. Karlton
ruled that unless there is evidence of an emergency, a social worker
and police officer investigating a report of child abuse must have a
warrant. The Ninth Circuit panel unanimously affirmed that decision
in Judge Andrew J. Kleinfeld's opinion. =20

Kleinfeld wrote that forcing the mother to pull down the three-year-
old's pants "invaded ... the mother's dignity and authority in
relation to her own children in her own home. The strip search as
well as the entry stripped the mother of this authority and dignity.
The reasonable expectation of privacy of individuals in their homes
includes the interests of both parents and children in not having
government officials coerce entry in violation of the Fourth
Amendment and humiliate the parents in front of the children."

"It's the best possible opinion for the Calabretta family and for the
rest of the country," Farris said. "The family won on every point we
raised. Police and social workers cannot force their way into
private homes. They were wrong to strip search the three-year-old
daughter. This ruling erases the possibility that the law is not
clear in the rest of the country."

-----------------------------------
For the full text of the Court's Decision go to: http://laws.findlaw.com/9th/9715385.html
 
Paul,
"The Constitution lives."

Yes, but we must "maintain the airway, monitor breathing and pulse", for it is on critical life support.

The Calabrettas and the Ninth Circuit Court should be applauded and supported. What happened in Calabretta's home has no place in America.

My kids are grown and gone. I deeply regret I did not know "then" what I know now. Home schooling is important, valuable, viable, and as American as apple pie.

Y'all have my vote.
 
From the Court Report HSLDA Good News.
The new miitary enlistment law for home schoolers is working! Over the last three years fewer than 150 home schooer were enisteed in all four armed services combined. However, from Oct 1998 until June 17, 1999, the number of home schoolers successfully enlisting in the four armed sevices has risen dramatically: 932 in the navy, 300 in the army, 130 in the Air Force, and 50 in the marines.
 
Let me say this without getting killed--I'm studying to be a public schoolteacher. I student teach in a public school, and I'll work in one when I graduate. Two points, then I'll get back under cover to wait for the responses:

1. We're not all liberal, gun-hating fools who fear freedom. Some, like me, are working on changing the schools even now. You could send your kid to my class safe in the knowledge that he/she will learn to rely upon himself, to think for himself, and to value himself more than any policy or government. You could also rest assured that your kid would not learn to blame evil acts on inanimate objects from me, as I don't deal in that nonsense either.

2. Parents sneer at the loss of interaction, but I see it every day. I work in a day camp in the summer time and I've never met a homeschooled kid who didn't have severe problems relating to other kids. Most have severe temper tantrums characteristic of much earlier stages of development and/or become badly withdrawn and sullen. This is not conclusive, of course, but it suggests a problem. I applaud the effort of parents like the ones above who plan some kind of socializing activities, such as trips, because without them I firmly believe that homeschooling can ruin a child's life.



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Don

"Hey you, let's fight!"
"Them's fightin' words!"
 
Gwinnydapooh:

No need to duck ;)

As an ex-teacher, can I make a couple of points?

1. I agree -- not all teachers are lefties. But the majority are. And the entire system is geared against you. All too often, "teacher accountability" is a synonym for "teacher conformity". I know, because I've been rapped over the knuckles in the past.

2. I worked extensively with kids from the School of the Air in Kalgoorlie, in the Western Australian outback. These kids are "homeschooled" by parents using curriculum support materials written by Distance Education and supplementary "lessons" by transceiver, TV and computer links. These kids may live 200 km from their nearest neighbour. We got them together at least once a year for a camp. Invariably, these kids were mature beyond their years, pragmatic, independent and from my observations far better adjusted than their "school-going" peers. If they lacked any "socialising" skills, it took all of 48 hours for them to learn ;)

Lotsa luck in your new career.

B
 
Gwinny - I also wish that you were in the majority. I also wish that the state of public education (especially in the Carolinas) wasn't in such shambles. But it is...

Our first few weeks of home school is going well. My wife and kids are very pleased with how things are progressing. We feel secure in the knowledge that our kids are being taught our values as opposed to those of our Godless schools.

As I said above, the kids still get plenty of social interaction with other home-schooled kids, in church, youth groups, sports, etc... I have to agree with Bruce - the home-schooled kids in our area are much more mature and well-adjusted than those in public schools. Home school ain't what it used to be in years past... ;)

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Kelly

SenatorsPlace.com

Deo Vindice
 
Gwinnydapooh, I hope you can make a difference on the inside. I still remember a couple good guys from my relatively short stay in the public system that made a lasting impression.

And now a little news about what is still wrong with the system: A Vermont homeschool mother jailed.
www.ewtn.com/ewtn/news/getstory.asp?number=19949



[This message has been edited by G-Freeman (edited September 07, 1999).]
 
G-Freeman,
Interesting article. I wonder how much of the article is scare propaganda though. Think about it. A Catholic organization (ZENIT) publishes an article about the risk of home schooling. What could be the motive? The first thing that comes to mind is that they want to make a choice for parents easier. If you don't like PS, risk going to jail or send the kids to a Catholic school.

Gwinny: Welcome back, and get 'em fella. There is so much disposable today, life styles, marriage, children, cars, VCRs, computers etc. It's nice to see a fix what's broken attitude, instead of a tear it down and start over.

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CCW for Ohio action site.
http:/www.ofcc.net
 
I trained to be a teacher in the early 70's. I will always remember my course in "Curriculum Development in the Secondary School". In reference to social studies we were told that our job would no longer be to teach facts, but to teach children how to think! I confronted the professor at the time and asked if what they were proposing was tantamount to brainwashing. There was quite an uproar in the class. I even had a member of the young communist alliance join our side in opposition to what was proposed, a real idealist. And needles to say the rest of the semester was rocky at best.

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In the shadow of Bunker Hill from the People's Republic of Massachusetts
 
Hal, I also don't believe everything I read, but if the story is true as told, I find it disturbing and indicative of some of the current problems with PS. The source seemed to bother you most, so I tried to check closer to Vermont. I couldn't find anything in the mainstream, but did get a hit on a radio station in Vermont with more of the story. www.sover.net/~rfv/maple.htm
They definately aren't mainstream though. BTW I don't think the propaganda thought occurred to me because there seem to be many Catholic organizations which are very supportive of homeschooling in general.
 
G-Freeman,
Good job on finding an alternative source for the story. The alternative has a bit more detail about the story. It(the propaganda slant) doesn't really bother me per say, it's just a suggestion of why the story appeared on a Catholic site, based in Italy(near the Vatican I presume). Now it could be argued, and rightly so from their(Catholic) point of view, that HS isn't the answer, and they(Catholics) provide the best alternative to public education. After all, they are in the education field, and would of course believe a Catholic school to be the best choice. Right or wrong, home school or private, the choice is, or should be, up to each individual family(or parent if single parent), not the state(or Feds) to make.

BTW, my wife is a teacher, but is employed in the special education field. This is one area of discussion we avoid. Lots of difference of opinion involved.


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CCW for Ohio action site.
http:/www.ofcc.net
 
Darthmaum, My wife has taught at home for six years. I am the cheer leader and get very impressed at what the guys can do and what they learn on their own.
Our oldest is in college and will do well.
I promised him the handgun of his choice if graduated with a 3.00gpa. 3.5 an AR-15 also. :)
 
There is opposition to home schooling from within the Catholic Church. The Boston Pilot, the official voice of the diocease, has editorialized against home schooling in the past. Face it, every empty seat is a lost tuition. The parochial school system has the same administrative bureaucracy to support that exists in the PS system. Not as large but it does exist. And there is a conservative vs liberal dichotomy as well. Conservative Catholics, opposed to sex ed in school(The Pittsburgh Curriculum) will pull their kids out of school. Parishes have been know to withold sacraments from children that are not exposed to the liberal theology in the parish CCD programs. PS has the NEA, we have the NCEA. There is support within the church as well. The pope views the parents as the primary educators of the child, not the church and not the state. It all depends on where you live and the whim of the bishop.
A good resource on home schooling is http://www.hslda.org/bookstore/catalog/court_report.html
If you home school or plan to join HSLDA. It will save your family and keep you out of jail with God's help.

[This message has been edited by Paul Morceau (edited September 08, 1999).]

[This message has been edited by Paul Morceau (edited September 08, 1999).]
 
First--I graduate May 14th and I have a GPA hovering at 3.44--but it'll be a 3.65 by May.
You can choose manufacturer, etc. on the AR but I'll take a brand new Ruger Super Redhawk in .44 for the handgun. Stainless would be nice. Please send your address and credit card number . . . . :)

Second--I already know where we're going to make changes in my room. For one thing, we're not going to pretend that early man made "tools" but not "weapons." We're also going to debate the main article in each weekly reader, with a team of kids on each side, rather than simply reading and accepting it as fact.

This is off the subject, but we had a staff meeting today (my first) at which the school policy on armed intruders was discussed. The principal sounds 4 tones (we have a crappy buzz tone instead of bells) and each teacher locks her door (from the outside!) then lines the kids up on the interior wall so <I>the BG can't see them through the door!</I> That's it. Pray hard and kiss your ass goodbye. I thought about offering my suggestion--lock the door if possible, line up the kids, then get your hand on your concealed .45, drawing it to a ready position if anyone tampers with the door and firing if you spot a weapon (the BG will have forced his way through the locked door by this time.) But I am a lowly student teacher so I thought better of it. This is Illinois, after all, where you're a nut if you hunt squirrels.

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Don

"Hey you, let's fight!"
"Them's fightin' words!"
 
Gwinny,

I know there are teachers out there, like yourself, who try to really help our kids, but, unfortunately, y'all are the minority. I know several teachers myself. One quit because of the depressing state of the education system, one is still fighting the fight in the trenches. We definitely need more teachers like yourself in the system.

As for your statement, "You could send your kid to my class safe in the knowledge that he/she will learn to rely upon himself, to think for himself, and to value himself more than any policy or government..." It's not your responsibility to teach my kids that, it's mine! How can you possibly instill these things to the 20-30 (or however many) kids in your class? There are those who will slip through the cracks, that you can't possibly help. I do admire your fortitude and zeal, but I guess I see the situation as hopeless. The public education system as I see it, isn't out to truly educate children, but to indoctrinate them. It's not the government's (feds or state) job to teach my kids their ideologies! I don't want my kids to know about drugs and alcohol or sex at age 5!

I don't believe that homeschooled kids, in general, are under-socialized, temper-tantrum pullers. I am a member of a 200+ member co-op here in our town (one of many in the area BTW) and we meet once a month, and participate in field trips and activities to give our kids the socialization they need. My daughter is much more well--behaved than most PS'd kids her age, and is much more respectful, and able to communicate her thoughts and ideas.

Also, most other homeschooled kids I know are much more mature and well-adjusted than their PS'd counterparts. Think about it: HS'd kids aren't subjected to the tremendous peer-pressure that PS'd kids are. They aren't lumped into the "learning-disabled" category, if they happen to learn at a different pace (or have a different learning style) than most kids. If they aren't ready to read at 6, there's nothing wrong with waiting till they're 7 or 8 to begin. This age-based teaching system our country has adopted is a crock!

I don't mean to go off on a rampage here, it's just a very hot button with me. I don't think it's "wrong" for parents to put their kids in PS (and I'm not putting down those parents who do), I just feel that, for my family, homeschool is the best choice available. I can control what they're learning, and when they learn it.
 
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