What are the hidden gems for home defense purposes?
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The Verminator
Moderator
What the HELL is an Extar EP9??
I'll help. You should have posted a review.
https://www.shootingillustrated.com/content/review-extar-ep9/
I'll help. You should have posted a review.
https://www.shootingillustrated.com/content/review-extar-ep9/
Last edited:
44caliberkid
New member
A nine shot, semiauto 12 gauge.
The Verminator
Moderator
stinkeypete
New member
A Labrador.
It doesn't seem to get as much attention as other brands and models of shotgun, but I rather like my Winchester SXP defender for home defense as it is one of the smoother cycling pump shotguns I've had (about on par with my old High Standard K-120 Riot).
While it certainly wouldn't be my first choice, I think a good .22 rifle is highly under-rated too particularly for someone who is recoil sensitive or on a shoestring budget. I've heard Darryl Bolke say on a couple of podcasts that he can't remember ever showing up to a shooting with a Ruger 10/22 that wasn't a fatal shooting. While it's no AR-15, a Ruger 10/22, Marlin Model 60, or Remington Nylon 66 loaded full of CCI Velocitors is something to be underestimated at one's peril.
A good lever-action rifle is another good gun that I think is over looked. They can be fast handling, offer a decent quantity of ammunition, are available in calibers with plenty of power, and don't look scary if you live in a jurisdiction that isn't particularly gun-friendly.
While it certainly wouldn't be my first choice, I think a good .22 rifle is highly under-rated too particularly for someone who is recoil sensitive or on a shoestring budget. I've heard Darryl Bolke say on a couple of podcasts that he can't remember ever showing up to a shooting with a Ruger 10/22 that wasn't a fatal shooting. While it's no AR-15, a Ruger 10/22, Marlin Model 60, or Remington Nylon 66 loaded full of CCI Velocitors is something to be underestimated at one's peril.
A good lever-action rifle is another good gun that I think is over looked. They can be fast handling, offer a decent quantity of ammunition, are available in calibers with plenty of power, and don't look scary if you live in a jurisdiction that isn't particularly gun-friendly.
The Verminator
Moderator
I'd call a lever action .22 Magnum an excellent choice.
Truly just as good as many other options listed along the thread.
Won't make you deaf and blind in the fight either.
georgehwbush
New member
the M-134 you did say "hidden gems" did you not?
2damnold4this
New member
An inexpensive and versatile home defense firearm would be something like a Mossberg Maverick 88.
2damnold4this
New member
.22 Magnum could be a fine choice but it's going to be just as loud or more than a 12 or 20 gauge shotgun as it runs at twice the pressure as the shotgun cartridges.
The Verminator
Moderator
Yes, you're right.
Almost anything indoors is too much.
Maybe we should stick with the .22 LR or the .45 ACP with a suppressor.
Earmuffs would be nice, but who has time when somebody has broken your door down?
2damnold4this
New member
Perhaps the fight stopping power of the shotgun would limit the number of times a home defender is exposed to dangerous noise levels.
The Verminator
Moderator
Thank God that most of us will never have to shoot in our own house.
bamaranger
New member
you might
I hate to be "that guy", but why is the report/noise level of a defensive weapon a priority, indoors or out? That indeed, seems putting the cart before the horse. Guns are loud. The primary consideration is the ability of that firearm to deliver a stopping blow(s) balanced against the shooters ability and locale. Training, practice, wear ear protection. While it seems eccentric, more than one source has indeed recommended electric sound damping muffs as part or a defensive plan. If your serious about maintaining awareness and protecting your hearing, consider some type of suppressor on a capable cartridge. Can't get to them in a home incident, I'll accept some hearing loss to survive.
A .22 mag carbine....don't think so. Hidden gem, like one of my last choices. I'd pick one if there was a groundhog in my garden. Better than nothing for sure and perhaps certain shooters reach their limit with that cartridge, but far better choices. Any of the pistol caliber carbines for one. A 20 ga pump shotgun w/ 18-20" bbl as another.
I hate to be "that guy", but why is the report/noise level of a defensive weapon a priority, indoors or out? That indeed, seems putting the cart before the horse. Guns are loud. The primary consideration is the ability of that firearm to deliver a stopping blow(s) balanced against the shooters ability and locale. Training, practice, wear ear protection. While it seems eccentric, more than one source has indeed recommended electric sound damping muffs as part or a defensive plan. If your serious about maintaining awareness and protecting your hearing, consider some type of suppressor on a capable cartridge. Can't get to them in a home incident, I'll accept some hearing loss to survive.
A .22 mag carbine....don't think so. Hidden gem, like one of my last choices. I'd pick one if there was a groundhog in my garden. Better than nothing for sure and perhaps certain shooters reach their limit with that cartridge, but far better choices. Any of the pistol caliber carbines for one. A 20 ga pump shotgun w/ 18-20" bbl as another.
georgehwbush
New member
well i'm sure that many will suggest better than what i have on hand, but my choices are 12g m1911 and m4. i can reach any of those "RIGHT NOW!" and have other things if it is longer range. but i also have .3 mile fare warning... dogs don't let things get close.
edit; i still think the m-134 would truly be the diamond in the rough, of "hidden gems" for home defense.
edit; i still think the m-134 would truly be the diamond in the rough, of "hidden gems" for home defense.
bamaranger
New member
snarky groundhogs
I just reread my above post and it seems a bit snarky. Despite one of John Wayne's characters advice to "never apologize...sign of weakness" , I got cynical in print and I regret it. Don't like it when somebody does it to one of my posts and should not replicate it. Did it in public so to speak, and will retract it the same way....sorry Verminator. I could have left it with simply this....i don't think the .22mag is enough gun.
I'm a bit leery of rimfire for SD too. The .22 mag does not suffer from a heel crimp like the .22 lr, which is prone to contaminate in bad conditions or over time, but it is still a rimfire. I'm not aware of any proof, but my gut (substantial gut
) is that a centerfire stores and ignites more reliably.
OK, hidden gems. As mentioned, the Maverick 88 in its HD configurations is a bargain and reliable. I listed the 20 ga as it is a bit more controllable than a 12 for some folks. I think a load of #3 buck would substantially ruin any felons day. Another sleeper might be the Hi-Point (yeah...I know) carbine, I suppose in 9mm, of course they come in other calibers too. Most reports describe them as reliable, they certainly are affordable and 9mm ammo, for now anyhow, is common. I've got one in 10mm, it's heavy, not very accurate, but has thus far run fine and within 100 yds will suffice should I need it to.....but I have better options. Finally, if one can live with a single action pistol with a manual safety, the Rock Island 1911 GI model is a sleeper. Reports are they run fine (mine in 10mm does) affordable and available in multiple calibers.
Lastly, though I laughed at Stinky P's Labrador comment, it's true. A dog is a good home defense item......as a warning system. Now....bamadogs in present residence seem willing to welcome anybody anytime. I would have thought the female Doberman would have displayed their supposed natural watchdog tendencies ( my Dad's Dobe, Tara, sure did) but Stella seems the most amiable of the lot. But a dog that sounds the alarm on visitors/intruders is a good thing. Note though, you want an alarm system and not a land mine. A dog that bites uncontrollably and cannot be trusted is a liability and not an asset. That said, even small toy and terrier breeds can suffice. Bamaboy's goldendoodle, a runt, is a good alarm dog, but scared of her own shadow. Perfect alarm system.
I just reread my above post and it seems a bit snarky. Despite one of John Wayne's characters advice to "never apologize...sign of weakness" , I got cynical in print and I regret it. Don't like it when somebody does it to one of my posts and should not replicate it. Did it in public so to speak, and will retract it the same way....sorry Verminator. I could have left it with simply this....i don't think the .22mag is enough gun.
I'm a bit leery of rimfire for SD too. The .22 mag does not suffer from a heel crimp like the .22 lr, which is prone to contaminate in bad conditions or over time, but it is still a rimfire. I'm not aware of any proof, but my gut (substantial gut
) is that a centerfire stores and ignites more reliably. OK, hidden gems. As mentioned, the Maverick 88 in its HD configurations is a bargain and reliable. I listed the 20 ga as it is a bit more controllable than a 12 for some folks. I think a load of #3 buck would substantially ruin any felons day. Another sleeper might be the Hi-Point (yeah...I know) carbine, I suppose in 9mm, of course they come in other calibers too. Most reports describe them as reliable, they certainly are affordable and 9mm ammo, for now anyhow, is common. I've got one in 10mm, it's heavy, not very accurate, but has thus far run fine and within 100 yds will suffice should I need it to.....but I have better options. Finally, if one can live with a single action pistol with a manual safety, the Rock Island 1911 GI model is a sleeper. Reports are they run fine (mine in 10mm does) affordable and available in multiple calibers.
Lastly, though I laughed at Stinky P's Labrador comment, it's true. A dog is a good home defense item......as a warning system. Now....bamadogs in present residence seem willing to welcome anybody anytime. I would have thought the female Doberman would have displayed their supposed natural watchdog tendencies ( my Dad's Dobe, Tara, sure did) but Stella seems the most amiable of the lot. But a dog that sounds the alarm on visitors/intruders is a good thing. Note though, you want an alarm system and not a land mine. A dog that bites uncontrollably and cannot be trusted is a liability and not an asset. That said, even small toy and terrier breeds can suffice. Bamaboy's goldendoodle, a runt, is a good alarm dog, but scared of her own shadow. Perfect alarm system.
The Verminator
Moderator
You are right again.I just reread my above post and it seems a bit snarky. Despite one of John Wayne's characters advice to "never apologize...sign of weakness" , I got cynical in print and I regret it. Don't like it when somebody does it to one of my posts and should not replicate it. Did it in public so to speak, and will retract it the same way....sorry Verminator. I could have left it with simply this....i don't think the .22mag is enough gun.
I'm a bit leery of rimfire for SD too. The .22 mag does not suffer from a heel crimp like the .22 lr, which is prone to contaminate in bad conditions or over time, but it is still a rimfire. I'm not aware of any proof, but my gut (substantial gut
OK, hidden gems. As mentioned, the Maverick 88 in its HD configurations is a bargain and reliable. I listed the 20 ga as it is a bit more controllable than a 12 for some folks. I think a load of #3 buck would substantially ruin any felons day. Another sleeper might be the Hi-Point (yeah...I know) carbine, I suppose in 9mm, of course they come in other calibers too. Most reports describe them as reliable, they certainly are affordable and 9mm ammo, for now anyhow, is common. I've got one in 10mm, it's heavy, not very accurate, but has thus far run fine and within 100 yds will suffice should I need it to.....but I have better options. Finally, if one can live with a single action pistol with a manual safety, the Rock Island 1911 GI model is a sleeper. Reports are they run fine (mine in 10mm does) affordable and available in multiple calibers.
Lastly, though I laughed at Stinky P's Labrador comment, it's true. A dog is a good home defense item......as a warning system. Now....bamadogs in present residence seem willing to welcome anybody anytime. I would have thought the female Doberman would have displayed their supposed natural watchdog tendencies ( my Dad's Dobe, Tara, sure did) but Stella seems the most amiable of the lot. But a dog that sounds the alarm on visitors/intruders is a good thing. Note though, you want an alarm system and not a land mine. A dog that bites uncontrollably and cannot be trusted is a liability and not an asset. That said, even small toy and terrier breeds can suffice. Bamaboy's goldendoodle, a runt, is a good alarm dog, but scared of her own shadow. Perfect alarm system.
The .22 ammo of today is not reliable enough to consider for self defense.
And as for dogs.......yes, a small yappy dog that barks reliably at any sign of a visitor is the best bet.
A big aggressive dog can create other problems and will just get shot by the intruder.
A small yappy dog is a hard target and will probably be ignored and live to yap another day.
As for hidden gems........I've come to believe that a suppressed .45 ACP is the best.
Since it's subsonic and still powerful......it's sort of unique among the options.
A big Glock and one of the new Ruger .45 Pistol Caliber Carbines for backup in the safe room might be nice........they suppress so beautifully.
bamaranger
New member
.22
The .22 lr of today, or anytime prior, is not a defensive cartridge per se. I don't want shot with one but it beats a sharp stick. Concerns are the cartridges modest power and a troubling tendency for rimfire ignition to fail. The .22 mag is more, especially from a rifle, but not that much more. Since the .22 mag projectile is crimped into the case in a different manner than the .22 lr, it may be a bit more reliable in ignition than the heel crimped .22 lr but I am suspect none the less.
Affordable and available in a wide variety of firearms, .22 lr has a place in every shooters battery. I am suspect of anybody who boasts they do not have a .22. The .22 lr is well represented in my safe.
I've not no experience w/ suppressed firearms other than to have shot several varieties over the years owned by others. My observations are that suppressors, though becoming more common and accepted, are still relatively scarce in the rank and file. Most folks in my circles do not have the money or are willing to have the gov't that much closer to them, but times are changing. I would label any suppressed firearm a "rare gem".
How 'bout another hidden gem? No longer affordable to acquire or shoot, I think another candidate is the M-1 carbine. I've wanted one since I knew what one was, but never committed. With expanding ammo to improve terminal performance the .30 M-1 carbine seems a good choice and rarely discussed. A good many were sold thru DCM initially, and more recently the reborn CMP sold a quantity. In the early 90's, a large number surfaced on the import market . I should have bought one but had other obligations for my cash. Today ammo is hard to locate and a carbine will cost you near a $1000. There are good copies out there, but they are not cheap either. Hard to justify when a entry AR will cost half that.
The .22 lr of today, or anytime prior, is not a defensive cartridge per se. I don't want shot with one but it beats a sharp stick. Concerns are the cartridges modest power and a troubling tendency for rimfire ignition to fail. The .22 mag is more, especially from a rifle, but not that much more. Since the .22 mag projectile is crimped into the case in a different manner than the .22 lr, it may be a bit more reliable in ignition than the heel crimped .22 lr but I am suspect none the less.
Affordable and available in a wide variety of firearms, .22 lr has a place in every shooters battery. I am suspect of anybody who boasts they do not have a .22. The .22 lr is well represented in my safe.
I've not no experience w/ suppressed firearms other than to have shot several varieties over the years owned by others. My observations are that suppressors, though becoming more common and accepted, are still relatively scarce in the rank and file. Most folks in my circles do not have the money or are willing to have the gov't that much closer to them, but times are changing. I would label any suppressed firearm a "rare gem".
How 'bout another hidden gem? No longer affordable to acquire or shoot, I think another candidate is the M-1 carbine. I've wanted one since I knew what one was, but never committed. With expanding ammo to improve terminal performance the .30 M-1 carbine seems a good choice and rarely discussed. A good many were sold thru DCM initially, and more recently the reborn CMP sold a quantity. In the early 90's, a large number surfaced on the import market . I should have bought one but had other obligations for my cash. Today ammo is hard to locate and a carbine will cost you near a $1000. There are good copies out there, but they are not cheap either. Hard to justify when a entry AR will cost half that.