What are the advantages and disadvantages of using a 4-6 cell Maglite/pistol?

That page, although wonderfully useful and well done, is fairly out of date. Flashlight technology has come a long way in the last few years. Although it is interesting that a light that throws will is also uniquely suited for up close and personal engagements.

If you are truly interested in flashlights themselves rather than simply the defensive/offensive capabilities of a light head over to www.candlepowerforums.com. Those folks will be willing to debate how bright and how far all day long.
 
I've been in public safety since 1995, and my earliest training cautioned us to use the flashlight only as a weapon of last resort. The days of hitting people with large metal flashlights (especially hitting them in the head) are behind us.

I think initially these lights were popular because of battery life, brightness, and durability. The fact that officers often have their flashlight in their hand lends itself to the lights use as an impact weapon. As technology improved, officers have enjoyed smaller, lighter, brighter flashlights with better battery life. The loss of a "last resort" impact weapon that was demonized by civil lawsuits was not much of a trade.

I personally would prefer a weapon mounted light, used in conjunction with a hand held SureFire or Streamlight.

Here is an interesting article about the use of flashlights by police:

Excessive Use of Force - The Evil Flashlight
 
The Maglite is a durable flashlight that is much brighter then a conventional flashlight
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Wow, not anymore. The Maglight is still a decent and inexpensive light, but they live at the low end of the light-output spectrum these days (unless you are comparing them to the $5 crap at the drug store or whatever).

Have a look at the stuff available at Brightguy http://www.brightguy.com/
or the Fenix line of lights http://www.fenixlight.com/newping.asp

Or if you have the money....the old standby of Surefire http://www.surefire.com/
 
I have not tried, but can I really throw my maglite across the concrete or dump it in a fishbowl and have it still work? I am not going to try just want to know.
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Buy the maglight and relax. After following this thread I have come to the conclusion that you are making yourself miserable obsessing over a flashlight. No offense intended, just re-read your posts...it's a flashlight for goodness sakes.
 
I was looking at my Maglite and thinking how I would improve the product if I had the authority. Here are my suggestions:

- Make a 7D model to give the unit a full nightstick-like 22 inches and to make it just a little bit brighter.

- Make the body of the unit a little bit thicker so it makes a better handle for fighting.

- Enlarge the head and optimize it for illumination

- Re-make the switch for 3 illumination levels.

- Optimize the bulb. Maybe include a combo led/incand light. The led for low illumination / low power occasions. Need more candlepower...

- Optimize the end of the maglite. I suggest a pointed end to have the ability to penetrate objects like windows.

- Do not make the head round to prevent it from rolling.

- Weight the business end so it makes for a better striking tool...
 
I have a tac-light on my carry pistol because you never know if your in a situation by yourself when you need lite. It's much easier to control a situation with a free hand!
 
I was going to update this thread with this last bit of information I found on an upgrade bulb for the maglite:

http://www.amazon.com/TerraLUX-TLE-..._8?ie=UTF8&s=automotive&qid=1271741068&sr=8-8

http://www.amazon.com/TerraLUX-TLE-...3?ie=UTF8&s=automotive&qid=1271741248&sr=1-13

I honestly feel that the Xenon upgrade bulb I have in the maglite now is by far enough blinding power. I can light up my neighbors house with the 6D Xenon bulb configuration from over 300 feet away. Even with my eyes shut, the light still hurts to shine in my eyes.

However, the above upgrade bulbs will make the maglite 3 times more powerful then the Xenon upgrade bulbs. That will be sure to blind someone.
 
If I were to carry a big maglite, it would be a C cell rather than a D cell. Much lighter and you can get a nice full grip on the thing. About the same amount of light but it perhaps burns a little less time.

Gotta tell you guys, if you haven't been in a fight before with this sort of gear (flashlight, baton, nightstick) you'll find that keeping a handle on the thing can be difficult. Once the fight begins, you'll probably have wet hands (sweat or blood). In baton training, you can always see the damage to the ceiling and walls where people have lost the handle and took a chunk out of the training room.
 
When I first went on patrol we had rechargeable streamlights in some of our patrol cars that gave you anywhere from 10 -15 min of fair to yellowish light. After I had one stop working during a traffic stop I bought myself a 6 C cell maglight. A couple of years later I bought a Stinger which I still use.

We were taught in police academy to hold our light away from ourselves to avoid making ourselves targets. This made good sense back then. Today lights are mounted right on our pistols which I believe has become more tacticool than pratical. Strobes are the latest these days. I wonder where we will go from here. A pistol with a built in light? Nahhh
 
I have one of those big 5C Maglites, they're sweet. I keep it under the bed in case the power goes out, or sometimes take it as a back up on a long road trip.

In the glovebox of my POV I have a Surefire 9P in a little holster with extra batteries. Upgraded lamp (220 lumen I believe) and crenelated cap. I usually have another one on me, or the Surefire G6 which is smaller and lighter but still incredibly bright, with crenelated cap for use as an impact device. I can't be carrying a huge Maglite around as I work in street clothes or a suit.

pictures, links or manuals on the techniques of handling a maglite and pistol
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This should really be it's own thread I think.. and there's literally tons of information about this on the web. Nearly every LE Agency has it's own methods and FMs regarding the topic. Some basic styles:

1) Modify your normal 2-handed pistol grip (thumbs forward) so your 2nd hand holds the torch pointing forward

2) Either a modified saucer hold or the cross-handed hold

3) Hold the torch far away from your body, typically high and left (for a RH shooter) so the light source isn't at your head/center of mass, telling the scumbag where to shoot (this has gone in and out of favor with many agencies including FBI and DEA, although differences between Special Agents and HRTs/SRTs maybe significant even within an agency)

4) Google it and report your findings
 
Consider an alternative?

I know this has nothing to do with flashlights but consider this,

either it hasn't been suggested or I haven't seen it here on TFL but why does no one ever suggest taking a pelvic shot? Just going by what I was taught in boot, a pelvic shot is supposed to almost always immediately immobilize a human being, a person shot through the pelvis shouldn't even be able to stand up.

If they had a gun then they could still return fire but they would have to 1) fight through the pain and 2) reacquire their target after hitting the deck. Advantage you. You don't have to worry about having a Godzilla Flashlight and the pelvis is a relatively large target, just put a controlled pair or three in the area of the target's hips and he probably won't be moving towards you anymore.

What you do after that depends on what he's armed with. If he has a firearm then you can continue to engage him, he's still a threat. If he had anything that would require him to get within arm's reach of you then I would cease fire and call the police and just keep an eye on the guy, maybe give him a verbal blasting about his poor decisions in life.
 
taking a pelvic shot
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There are no immediately vital organs in the pelvis. The objective in deploying lethal force (once justified) is to kill; not injure, incapacitate or maim.

If you prefer the latter, carry a Taser or your choice of OC/CS.
 
I actually do that with a Maglite 3D, myself. I prefered the 3D for it's more manageable size. I feel that if an assailant broke into my apartment and attacked me and I couldn't stop him using either my 9mm or (stupidly) .22LR within the distance it would take for him to close the gap, the 3D would make a pretty good bludgeon without sacrificing a whole lot of manageability. In the event that I reach for my Mossberg (12g) as my HD choice, then I don't really have a flashlight that'll work with that, so the Mossberg is relegated to daylight duty in my home.

If you're confident with larger bludgeons or clubs, then a 4-6 cell may work out VERY well for you, I'd prefer one of the bigger ones myself, but I don't think I could wield it effectively.

Edit: you know what, I actually lied. I use a 2D, not a 3D.
 
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I keep my two big red 6 cell D Maglite with me by my bedside and have one for in my car. It gives me a better feeling knowing that I have both illumination and a secondary means of protection by my side when I am in a vulnerable state...i.e. sleeping or stopped by the side of the road.

I cant swing it very fast, but I believe the intent behind it is more to keep people back. Lets say the bad guy is a distance away. If I have the maglite out and swinging while retreating then he is going to think twice about advancing.

As for the ultimate tool of illumination, I would have to bow down to the Fenix light. Fenix has many flashlights, but the one I favor the most for my illumination needs is the LD10 which uses 1 AA cell. It has a little more power then a 3-Cell Maglite. It is easy to carry around in your pocket and uses AA cells which can be found just about anywhere. There are brighter versions with CR123A battery, but getting a hold of one of those batteries in an emergency might be challenging. AA batteries are just about everywhere and spares are usually found in any household drawer or portable appliance or at any store. There are tips you can buy for the lights which turn it into a lamp or a wand. You can also buy a setup so you can wear it on your head like a fireman or miner. You can submerse any of the Fenix lights in 5 feet of water for 24 hours and they still work. Dropping them wont break them. I saw 50 AA batteries on Amazon on-sale for 15 dollars and the AA batteries are so easy to carry around that you wont run out of power too soon.

Lets say you are on an airplane or in a hotel when there is some kind of emergency and the lights go completely out. The Fenix LD10 is the perfect thing to have in your pocket...

http://www.fenixlight.com/viewproduct.asp?id=117
 
BilldeShivs:
RE: objective in deploying lethal force (once justified) is to kill; not injure, incapacitate or maim
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Booker T,
You are very wrong.
In a civilian situation, the intent is to stop, not to kill.
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You have made the assumption that I was addressing a civilian situation. If you would like to clarify or apply my statement with regards to a civilian situation, considering your local laws and regulations, then by all means present that information for the forum.

However, a generalization of "very wrong" regarding the objective of lethal force deployment being delivery of lethal terminal effects downrange and on-target is baseless, by definition.

V/r,
Booker
 
Booker T,

the Marine Corps didn't teach taking pelvic shots with the intent of just wounding someone. The idea is that if you have a target advancing towards you, you want to stop that immediately. If damaging his pelvis immobilizes the target then he has simultaneously become less of a threat and an easier target to deliver a round to the T-Box on. In a civilian self defense scenario the legal ramifications of delivering that follow up shot should be considered, i.e. whether or not the individual still has the ability to cause you harm.

Bottom line is, if it keeps the bad guy from hurting you then it works regardless of whether or not it kills him.

As for flashlights, if I were ever in this situation I'd rather have a small tactical type flashlight with a glass breaker on the end that I could bring down in a stabbing/hammer fist type motion. I think a rediculously long flashlight would just be a little unwieldy and difficult to employ. That's just speculation on my part though.
 
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We were taught in police academy to hold our light away from ourselves to avoid making ourselves targets. This made good sense back then. Today lights are mounted right on our pistols which I believe has become more tacticool than pratical.
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Holding the light out from your body is definitely an outdated tactic primarily because holding the light out from you body forces you to shoot one handed. You should never choose to shoot one-handed, although some situations force you to do it. Holding the light out from your body also tends to backlight you unless you push the light far forward which at least for those of us with normal arms doesn't really result in much separation from the light signature and your important parts (head and chest). Even when the light is out to your side and pushed forward, you still get lots of splashback from walls, ceilings, furniture etc. Carrying the light directly in front of you provides the least backlighting.

It's also pretty much impossible to do in many situations. Many places where we search are small, hallways, rooms full of furniture etc. It's tough enough to try to get more than one person in those rooms and when you're searching having as many guns up as possible leads to a longer life expectancy.

Finally, the new lights are bright, much brighter than those old Kellights or Maglights. The are MEANT to blind the opponent.

BTW, at least on the fed side, we still teach holding the flashlight out in certain situations It just isn't the preferred method.
 
They make LED Maglites in the big size that we are all accustomed to now. I found it odd that nobody mentioned this. They aren't as bright as a Surefire, but they will more than get the job done. Also, what is needed to truly blind someone in a low light situation? I don't think that it will take much.

I keep two flashlights in my vehicle. Of course, I also have one at my bedside.

1. A big LED 3 cell Maglite just for roadside emergencies at night.

2. A small, bright, good LED in my center console for just because.
 
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