what 45 ammo do you carry?
- Thread starter griffin12aaa
- Start date
In post 20, you selectively quoted from a post on another forum where the author listed ballistic test results on loads from several manufacturers in several calibers and then made a general statement. "The Hornady CD loads simply do not work as well as other options when looked at in aggregate. Is it better than an FMJ? Yes, but the CD are not as good as many other options, so I cannot recommend them for general use." (emphasis added).
The actual test results of the Hornady Critical Defense load:
The Hornady Critical Defense actually out performed the other two tested loads in .45 acp, including Federal HST +P.
In my post 22, I just mentioned your selective quote about Critical Defense loads generally did not apply to .45 acp and they do not. There's no reason to debate it. The facts are the facts.
The actual test results of the Hornady Critical Defense load:
http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?7205-New-Service-Caliber-Handgun-Tests
The Hornady Critical Defense actually out performed the other two tested loads in .45 acp, including Federal HST +P.
In my post 22, I just mentioned your selective quote about Critical Defense loads generally did not apply to .45 acp and they do not. There's no reason to debate it. The facts are the facts.
Derbel McDillet
Moderator
Terminal performance of CD can vary considerably from lot to lot. Its inconsistent expansion reliability is inferior to modern well-designed JHP ammunition.
I keep my XDm .45 loaded with Hornady Critical Duty 220gr +P, which is my HD gun.
I keep my XDs .45 loaded with Hornady Critical Defense 185 gr. The XDs is my EDC gun.
I chose these rounds after seeing several good reviews of both, and shooting several boxes of each with 100% reliability and excellent accuracy.
I chose the Critical Duty 220gr +P for my full size gun because the recoil isn't bad, and the extra barrel length gives this load enough velocity to expand well and not over penetrate. The Critical Duty has a harder core, and with shorter barrels, limited expansion and over penetration are a real concern.
I chose the Critical Defense 185gr loading for my XDs because the recoil is mild, and you get a good balance of expansion and penetration with a shorter barrel.
Both loads have been very accurate in both guns, and there is almost no muzzle flash, which is nice for low light SD situations.
I keep my XDs .45 loaded with Hornady Critical Defense 185 gr. The XDs is my EDC gun.
I chose these rounds after seeing several good reviews of both, and shooting several boxes of each with 100% reliability and excellent accuracy.
I chose the Critical Duty 220gr +P for my full size gun because the recoil isn't bad, and the extra barrel length gives this load enough velocity to expand well and not over penetrate. The Critical Duty has a harder core, and with shorter barrels, limited expansion and over penetration are a real concern.
I chose the Critical Defense 185gr loading for my XDs because the recoil is mild, and you get a good balance of expansion and penetration with a shorter barrel.
Both loads have been very accurate in both guns, and there is almost no muzzle flash, which is nice for low light SD situations.
I see this kind of stuff posted about Critical Duty and Critical Defense on various gun forums, but I really don't see too many tests or many reputable sources saying this.
I have seen lots of gel test, barrier tests, etc., and both rounds seem to perform just as well as the other top shelf defensive ammunition.
As for your comment above, how would the terminal performance vary from lot to lot? Any evidence of this? Hornady is known for making great ammunition that performs well. Every gel test and barrier test video I've been seeing shows both rounds expanding reliably.
My big thing about gun forums is there seems to be a lot of misinformation going around, and there are lots of members here that may not be very knowledgeable about firearms or ammunition because they are new to shooting. They can't differentiate good information from bad information when they are trying to make a decision on something.
After waiting nearly a year for a case of 40 cal 165 grain Federal HST, I ordered a case of Hornady 175 grain Critical Duty and authorized it as an alternate issue item.
The CD shoots OK but not significantly better than the the Golden Sabers or HST we were issuing. We fired the HST and CD side by side at night. Muzzle flash was identical for all intents and purposes, which was surprising considering the HST posts 100-120 fps higher velocities. We also shot the CD into 3 water jugs backed by a phone book. Most expanded well but several did not and one of them didn't even blur the 'H' molded into the little red rubber nose plug. Only living thing I have shot with it was a 55 pound Pit that got away from some methbillies and made a run for me. But that was a bang-skid head shot and .380 ball would have done the same thing.
I don't dislike CD but would prefer an XTP because I know what to expect from it. I will reorder HST at the first opportunity; but would use WW/USA/JHP quite happily, especially in a 45.
You have to remember that every year, ammo makers re-invent the wheel with sparkly spokes, in an effort to gain a bigger share of the ammo market. Improvements have indeed resulted, but they have been marginal ones. There still ain't no magic boolits.
The CD shoots OK but not significantly better than the the Golden Sabers or HST we were issuing. We fired the HST and CD side by side at night. Muzzle flash was identical for all intents and purposes, which was surprising considering the HST posts 100-120 fps higher velocities. We also shot the CD into 3 water jugs backed by a phone book. Most expanded well but several did not and one of them didn't even blur the 'H' molded into the little red rubber nose plug. Only living thing I have shot with it was a 55 pound Pit that got away from some methbillies and made a run for me. But that was a bang-skid head shot and .380 ball would have done the same thing.
I don't dislike CD but would prefer an XTP because I know what to expect from it. I will reorder HST at the first opportunity; but would use WW/USA/JHP quite happily, especially in a 45.
You have to remember that every year, ammo makers re-invent the wheel with sparkly spokes, in an effort to gain a bigger share of the ammo market. Improvements have indeed resulted, but they have been marginal ones. There still ain't no magic boolits.
buck460XVR
New member
^^^This is why it's so silly to argue over which is the best bullet for OTHER folks to use in THEIR firearm. Folks need to use what they are proficient with, confident with and is most reliable and accurate in their particular firearm. When it comes down to those three shots @ 3 feet to save your life or the lives of your loved ones, this is much more important that what someone else on the internet claims. Most any bullet designed for SD/HD by major manufacturers will perform if the finger on the trigger does it's part.
Talking & shooting....
Talk is cheap, but shooting LE or defense grade ammunition aint!
I do agree that any armed professional or gun owner should fire up carry/duty rounds as much as they can to be aware of how they work.
The problem is that it's not cheap or easy for many(including me).
Reviews, reports, anecdotal information(actual use in the field), and word-of-mouth is what many gunners go by.
Clyde
Talk is cheap, but shooting LE or defense grade ammunition aint!
I do agree that any armed professional or gun owner should fire up carry/duty rounds as much as they can to be aware of how they work.
The problem is that it's not cheap or easy for many(including me).
Reviews, reports, anecdotal information(actual use in the field), and word-of-mouth is what many gunners go by.
Clyde
Double Naught Spy
New member
Federal HST 230 gr.
LOL, it was designed to run on 200 gr. RNL corrosive ball ammo...which I bet you are not using. The military bumped it up to 230 gr. RNL corrosive ball ammo. HOWEVER, just because it was designed to run with such ammo does not mean it can't or won't run with other types of ammo, especially if you have a 1911 made after the 1970s when changes in the design were made for the purpose of shooting hollowpoint ammo.
LOL, it was designed to run on 200 gr. RNL corrosive ball ammo...which I bet you are not using. The military bumped it up to 230 gr. RNL corrosive ball ammo. HOWEVER, just because it was designed to run with such ammo does not mean it can't or won't run with other types of ammo, especially if you have a 1911 made after the 1970s when changes in the design were made for the purpose of shooting hollowpoint ammo.
Derbel McDillet
Moderator
The test results posted by "docGKR" (Gary Roberts), in the link previously provided, are the second tests he's performed on Critical Duty. Terminal performance of Critical Duty in his first tests was worse. You're more than welcome to post a question to "docGKR" in the thread on Pistol Forum asking for more information.
You guys may have heard of or even be subscribed to Tnoutdoors9 on YouTube--he happens to be one of my favorite channels and ballistic testing is a primary focus. Here's his test of Hornady's CD .45auto and he makes a good point concerning barrel length relative to expansion/penetration/velocity:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GI_fOpndtdY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GI_fOpndtdY
armsmaster270
New member
Quote Clyde Frog : Talk is cheap, but shooting LE or defense grade ammunition aint!
When you are buying them at police contract prices about 8-9 dollars a box they were.
I have put about 600 rounds of Win Rangers through my .45 I can shoot them cheaper than over the counter ball.
When you are buying them at police contract prices about 8-9 dollars a box they were.
I have put about 600 rounds of Win Rangers through my .45 I can shoot them cheaper than over the counter ball.
Any brand of 230gr ball ammo. Basically, because it's what I find on the shelves and it always feeds.
I'll probably switch to JHP at some time in the future, but until the supply is more reliable and the price gets back to normal I'm just going to have to pay particular attention to what is behind my target.
I'm getting ready to start loading my own ammo. That might be when I make the effort to figure out what works and to take the time to get my load just right for my carry gun.
I'll probably switch to JHP at some time in the future, but until the supply is more reliable and the price gets back to normal I'm just going to have to pay particular attention to what is behind my target.
I'm getting ready to start loading my own ammo. That might be when I make the effort to figure out what works and to take the time to get my load just right for my carry gun.
Gary L. Griffiths
New member
Another vote for 230-gr Federal HSTs. 
bamaranger
New member
Ranger T
230- std vel JHP.
Not uncommon for me to carry 230 TC FMJ when wandering about OD and the .45acp is along.
230- std vel JHP.
Not uncommon for me to carry 230 TC FMJ when wandering about OD and the .45acp is along.