Were Firearms Made Better In The "Old" Days? Thoughts please.

http://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/AWI.html

1960 avg wages $4007 or $77 per week.
2010 avg wages $40,712 or $783 per week

That means that if a gun cost $69 in 1969 it would go gor $690 today.
The difference between a $39 gun and a $69 gun is $30 then but $300 now.

I have no idea what the Colt's and S&Ws went for back then. I do know that many gun companies no longer produce guns and are long gone out of business. The ring of fire guns continue to be sold but they were cheap then and cheap now. I'd guess that beautiful revolver from the 60's may have cost the same, if not more, than today's comparable revolver. Most of the cheap guns are gone whether blown up, sunk, tossed away or rusted to bits. The better quality handguns made it here, today.

They made more than their share of junk in the 60s as well as every decade. They just aren't around any more. There were lower end guns sold at Sears and Wards much like Walmart controls the market today for cheap, junk. Those guns are looked at favorably today only because of their history, not their fine craftmanship.

Buy a fine gun in 1930 or 1960 or 2010 and if taken care of it will be a fine gun in future generations. Buy a cheap piece of crap today and it will still be a cheap piece of crap in 50 years only more rare because it made it that long.

I believe that the guns made todays are safer than those made 50 years ago due to computers and metal advancements. You can see a flaw in metal today where as 50 years ago if it looked ok it was good to go. With this country looking to sue anybody for anything I believe the guns made are safer than any time in history and I don't mean from 3-5 safeties per gun but in advancements is the manufactoring process. I have old guns and new guns, plastic, aluminum and steel and I don't think any of them will fall apart any time soon. I also don't think they will explode in my hands or face because of flawed manufactoring. Maybe bad reloads but not like the Ring-of-Fire guns of olde who had a life expectancy of 500 rounds. Those were throwaway guns in a throwaway era for people who didn't wish to keep them for generations. Compare a S&W .357 from 1960 and today as far as fit and function and I don't think either one will disappoint you. They both probably cost 1 week's salary and the cheap guns will always be sold to people on a limited budget and they won't make it the next 50 years.

Soon, this era will be considered the good old days of gunmaking. It always happens. Today's guns are as fine as in any era if you compare apples to apples.
 
A S&W M36 3" barrel cost me $234 (new) in 1971. I bought it for my wife and she still has it. In the 80s I bought a S&W M10 with a 6" barrel for $200. New in the box and still that way.

BTW, does anyone know when they quit making the 6" barrels?
 
New/Old

I much prefer the finish on older firearms. A high polish blue today is rare. A very high polish Carbonna Blue (spelling?) is the epitome of beautiful finishes for pistols. I dislike spray on, bake on, dull phosphate, epoxy, and many other el cheapo finishes applied today. The consumer has been sold a bill of goods with these new finishes. They are "better" only for the manufacturer.
 
Agree on the finish aspect, to a degree (seen many spellings...carbonia, carbona, carbonna...I'm sure we know what you mean- that deep blue that looks wet and the precise color is hard to nail down) as many very old firearms were phosphate finished when brand new- I have a 67 year old rifle and a 68 year old rifle that never had anything but phosphate. But I do believe that there's pluses and minuses to 'the old days'. If they knew then what we know now about metallurgy and heat treating those old guns would be better still. If today we could somehow return to a higher standard of general pride in craftsmanship we'd have better guns
 
MIM again? lol

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FIRED 1 ROUND OF MY ALL-PURPOSE HANDLOAD (200gr. Cast Lead SWC, 7.0 Unique, & WLP primer. Seated to 1.250" OAL & taper crimped) INTO THE CRANIUM AREA TO CHECK SIGHT REGULATION & THEN PROCEEDED TO PUT THE NEXT 6 INTO ONE RAGGED HOLE THAT MEASURED 1.000" !!!!!!
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Pretty hard to believe you did that with Unique. I bought exactly one pound of that crap and threw half of it out. I never found it worth a damn for .45 ACP.
 
The "old" polished blue was breath taking. The finishes were beautiful. However, if you wanted to carry it instead of keeping it in a safe the finish wore off a lot easier than the guns made today. Beautiful and fragile. Couldn]'t have both back then.
 
I don't know if the old blue finishes wore off quickly or not; they weren't all the same. The bluing may have been the same but the finishes weren't all the same and I'm only referring to S&W. They used to have a satin finish that was neither a bright blue nor a flat or matt finish that I thought quite attractive on a service grade revolver. But nickel-plated revolvers were generally superior in that they were more rust resistant than a blued finish, although some people didn't like shiny or "white" guns and some people still don't. Overall, this can be said of guns made both here and in Europe.

It is curious that really weather resistant finishes were late in coming to military weapons and some even had parts apparently left in the white, yet you still see lots and lots of them in fairly good shape, considering. None of that has anything to do with craftsmanship or design, just the finish.
 
For bluing, it depends on the type and how much of bluing was put on the firearm. ive got a cap and ball 1860 repro colt the bluing on it wore off quickly. But I have a cap and ball 1847 repro walker and the bluing has so many layers it just wont wear down. I have fired the walker about twice as much as the 1860. And if anyone has fired a BP gun you know how bad the powder residue will corrode the weapon. When the gun industry discovered bluing they jumped on it. For the simple reason of in war a non blued weapon was made of steel, so it had to be cleaned constantly (much like a current military rifle) The flaws with bluing is that it the weapon can rust under the layers of bluing if not applied correctly and that it didn't last too long. For the quality of new weapons vs old ones, well you have to consider the rule of quantity over quality. The higher amount of weapons produced the higher number of flaws you will have. That's why most firearm companies worth their salt have incorporated master craftsmen into their production process.
 
So after reading all the posts I have started to think the following. If we incorporate all the newest metal technology and manufacturing technology together with skilled and knowledgable workers, should we not come up with the most perfect and precise firearm at a relatively reasonable price? Each new process and discovery of new metal combinations, and CNC machines, should combine to further push reliablity. It just doesn't seem to go that way though. Faster machines putting out good parts are no good without someone who knows how each part they are installing should interact. QC starts on the line with the assembler, not just the foreman. Guess big business has forgotten that reliablity sells more firearms than price. Atl east this is my thought now as I have matured and realize that quality is the key, and if I have to pay more for it, than so be it. I will not be let down as often if I stick to this.
 
After reading all of the above, I think I will go home and get out that old M&P 38 SPL (pre 10) from 1936. Feel the smooth action, gaze at the deep polished blue. She was nothing special when made, just another revolver, but what pride and craftsmanship was put into every gun. The new revolvers have better steel and modern machining cuts down production time but the fine fit and finish is lacking unless you go to custom shops.
 
Well I took out my pre WWII Sears Ranger, (a Stevens M416) which at the time was guaranteed to shoot ½” at 50 yards. I shot in a small bore prone match, shot the first 120 shots with my Anschutz, but since it was not an approved match, I wanted to try my Ranger for the last 40 shots on the 50 yard target.

I am quite happy with the results. The barrel is good and I am certain if I had more practice with the thing, and was not using a 6X hunting scope (no ¼ MOA elevation and windage adjustments) I might have shot a 200.

The wood is much better than what you would find in a midpriced modern rifle, all major parts are machined, inletting excellent and the bluing is blue. Not black but blue.

But there are limitations to this old gun. No handstop and rail, original iron sights have way too much wobble, small pistol grip, no adjustable comb or buttplate, 4 pound trigger. It was hard to load as the action uses a clip. Apparently back then, competitors shot rapid fire in rimfire matches.

One of the better shooters at my Club uses a M37 Remington Action. He has completely changed everything else, don’t know where he got a trigger, but that 30’s-40’s action is still functioning and shooting MA scores.


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I love the Colt Series 70 MKIV and that was made a while ago. The fit and finish on the gun is beautiful. It is accurate as hell and feels great too bad I dont own one. Lucky my uncle has one with Trijicon night sights installed and a polished ramp/ throated barrel it is awesome. He says he mite do more but wants to keep it just about stock.
 
I love the Colt Series 70 MKIV and that was made a while ago. The fit and finish on the gun is beautiful. It is accurate as hell and feels great too bad I dont own one. Lucky my uncle has one with Trijicon night sights installed and a polished ramp/ throated barrel it is awesome. He says he mite do more but wants to keep it just about stock.
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I see the opportunity for torture :D

1978 Colt MKIV Series 70. And yes it is pretty darn accurate

mk4s70a.jpg
 
NICE pic. The Series 70 really is awesome. I love everything about it I need to get one. I cant because Im in mass so I settled for S&W 1911 which is excellent. Basically a standard 1911 except the novak sights, bevertail, and extended saftey. Its an awesome gun and wicked accurate.
 
I would say yes. My Mosin Nagant, compared to my friend Remington 700, has a more durable finish, is better balanced and it has nearly the same accuracy. His rifle is muzzle heavy, with a plastic stock and the iron sights are easily thrown off zero. He paid 650 for it, I paid 120 haha
 
NICE pic. The Series 70 really is awesome. I love everything about it I need to get one. I cant because Im in mass so I settled for S&W 1911 which is excellent. Basically a standard 1911 except the novak sights, bevertail, and extended saftey. Its an awesome gun and wicked accurate.
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:) Thanks

Those S&W 1911s are great pistols

I live in Massachusetts. I lived in Boston when I bought that Colt last year but I (thank godfully) moved outside of the city last summer.

You can buy Colts here- but they have to have been in the state and registered here before a certain date. That does put a premium on price though since it is a finite pool of people selling their Colts in MA. Check out Four Season's website, under used firearms. They typically have a couple Colts. They are listing a Series 80 right now. I have nothing against the Series 80 personally; as long as the trigger feels nice I couldn't care less but the Series 80 is a touch more complex and I need three hands to put the slide back together when I strip it. Anyway, Four Seasons has the Series 80 listed today. It seems high price but the thing could be in mint condition. I've purchased a few things from them and I can recommend their shop

http://www.fsguns.com/used/
 
I bought the S&W 1911 at Four Seasons. My father and I go there, small world. I saw a Series 70 a couple yrs ago at a gunshow in Shriner's that circus place I forget where it is. Anyway I wanted to get one but couldn't find one around so I bought the S&W that was there. I figured Id get the Series 70 eventually. When I do Im going to mix it up old and new. Novaks, Bevertail, Extended saftey, new stainless 3 hole trigger, and maybe a new stainless barrel bushing. Maybe an accurized barrel. It will be sweet when I get it. I got a couple other guns from four seasons as well and I recommend the shop to anyone as well. The S&W 1911 is really nice fires everything and is dead accurate.
 
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