Went to my CCW Class this past weekend.

[DougNew]

Utah used to require actual qualification with the type of handgun (semi-auto, revolver, derringer, etc) the applicant was intending to carry (or could re-qualify for a small fee, later on, if the type of firearm changed). But, if you could not prove you were safe enough to load, handle, and fire the handgun; and could not maintain good enough control to score 20 CoM (huge target) hits in 40 rounds, your instructor would not sign off on your application.

That's fascinating - anyone know when they dropped this requirement?

At least show you can safely load, unload and shoot the thing before a permit is issued

I'd support that. It's not an onerous requirement, it matches the expectation we have of fellow gun owners, and it can be taught in a simple and effective manner (unlike the complex weak-hand draw alluded to on Page 1 of this Thread, with pax's excellent video link).

 

[FrankenMauser]

At least show you can safely load, unload and shoot the thing before a permit is issued

I'd support that. It's not an onerous requirement, it matches the expectation we have of fellow gun owners, and it can be taught in a simple and effective manner (unlike the complex weak-hand draw alluded to on Page 1 of this Thread, with pax's excellent video link).

Although that is technically in the course requirements for Utah resident permits, it doesn't seem to be enforced by most instructors, from what I have read on local forums (particularly the courses taught in the instructors' homes).

 

[Kodyo]

Where in Texas did you take the CHL class?

Me and my brother will be taking one over summer and are looking for a place near Austin.

 

[markj]

I've seen people who can't speak English, or who write poorly (me for one), shell we deprive them of the freedom of speech until the get training?

Well for one thing, I wont get killed or hurt by their lack of knowledge like a gun will do. Isnt even close to the same thing. I said my piece:

At least show you can safely load, unload and shoot the thing before a permit is issued

Nothing about accuracy, just that the person can load, unload and safely shoot it. This is to much to ask?

There will be literally thousands of permits issued here by the end of this year, the chance of an accidental shooting increases along with that.

 

[motorhead0922]

Nothing about accuracy, just that the person can load, unload and safely shoot it. This is to much to ask?

No, it's not too much to ask.

In Missouri, basically those are the requirements, but you have to demonstrate this for both revolver and semi-auto. There is an accuracy requirement of demonstrating the ability to hit a B27 silhouette 15 times out of 20 at 7 yards with the gun of your choice.

 

[Doublea A]

To Berreez,
You have raised a very important observation. The problem is that a question about gun safety always becomes divisive with 2nd amendment rights. A week ago somebody raised a similar question and I tried answering learning towards safety responsible gun ownership and I was accused of being a gun control advocate. But it is a very important discussion that needs to be addressed without all the passion. I grew up around firearms and my father always taught us about Safety! Safety! Safety and responsibilities. I think with rights must come personal responsibilities. When I took my CCW qualification I was aware with the difference of firearms experience during the class. I also took four of my friends to the range six months after my CCW who had minimum firearm experience. It was amazing how simple instructions like; muzzle control and finger off the trigger went to deaf ears. I was yelling at each of them but time after time they repeated the same error again and again. Maybe they are some really dumb friends of mine.

I have vowed never to encourage any friends of mine to get CCW until they have at least mastered basic firearm manipulation. I care too much for their safety and others. I won't do it now or ever. Do you know how many times I have gone to the range and have seen some guys goofing around with the firearms and I have waited till the left before I entered? Being shot is not fun whether intended or through negligence. As a firearm owner, wouldn't you want to be knowledgeable with your firearm and the laws surrounding the state you reside, so that you don’t do anything stupid due to ignorance or negligence in enabling the gun grabbers reasons to try and restrict your 2nd amendment rights. This in my opinion is responsible gun ownership. There is no substitute for knowledge and training as I didn't know would not fly in court.

 

[kraigwy]

I've seen people who can't speak English, or who write poorly (me for one), shell we deprive them of the freedom of speech until the get training?

Well for one thing, I wont get killed or hurt by their lack of knowledge like a gun will do. Isnt even close to the same thing.

Sorry, it is the same, the Constitution shouldn't be for sale.

 

[smince]

(A 50% hit rate, on a massive Center of Mass target - and more than 60% of applicants couldn't pass!)

I've worked part-time at the local LE range. I can verify what kraigwy stated about cops: there are many who struggle to shoot that well with mandatory training.

I've seen an entire shift qualify with 80% being the 'high score' in the past.

But I don't worry about the average CCW holder shooting me accidentally any more than I worry about the average LE officer.

So, if it's all the same with ya'll, I'll just continue to pay my $25 a year for a (no-training required) permit and go on my way.

I will add that I agree 100% with pax posts on saving up the money for voluntary training.

 

[motorhead0922]

(A 50% hit rate, on a massive Center of Mass target - and more than 60% of applicants couldn't pass!)

Where did this quote come from? I don't see it in this thread.

I thought the Missouri accuracy requirement sounded easy so I asked my CCW instructor if he ever had someone flunk. IIRC, he said he had one guy have to try twice, then he passed. And my instructor teaches a LOT of classes. BTW, he is very thorough, conscientious, and careful.

 

[smince]

Where did this quote come from? I don't see it in this thread.

Read post #26 again.

 

[madmo44mag]

There are many that take a CCW course that have never fired a gun. There are many that take the course and are regular shooters.
What I notice more than anything is that a lot of folks with in 6 month stop carrying.
Most I have spoke with state they begin to realize the reason they wanted the CCW was the cool factor. After carrying a while the weight of the responsibility was more than they anticipated or cared for.
This is just a personal observation for what it is worth.

 

[markj]

Sorry, it is the same, the Constitution shouldn't be for sale.

Aint for sale, but like I said, a mis spoken word will never kill me, a mis shot gun has that ability. And to become a US citizen a person needs to pass a test given in English, my sis in law is now US and my bro in law is now US citizens.

2 different items of our great Constitution.

 

[kraigwy]

2 different items of our great Constitution

And neither two require a test to be able to take advantage of our God Given Right.

Perhaps you can start an effort to amend the constitution to require training before one can excesses his/her rights it guarantees but until then ????

Mandated firearms training hasn't worked in police departments, in the military and it wont work in the civilian world. There is no evidence to the contrary. If a person wants to shoot, and learn how to shoot propertly and safely he will, if he doesn't he wont, regardless of the training. To require one to train, and to pay for that training is in fact a tax.

Teddy Roosevelt thought training should be provided to the American Citizen he created the DCM (now known as the CMP). It's free for the most part, but it is not mandatory. Many police and sheriff's departments and National Guard Units put on training for citizens, at no cost, or maybe a tad bit to cover the cost, but its not mandatory.

Putting a price on firearms training limits it to those who can afford it. If there a choice for a father or mother to pay $200 for training or food for their children, then guess what, that father and mother will carry to protect their "fed kids" without training.

Free or low cost shooting is available for all of us, all we have to do is take advantage of it, but to force on to pay for training he can't afford might cost him the ability to protect his family. I'm against that.

The government (federal state and local) paid a lot of money to make a firearms instructor out of me. That was from tax dollars. I'm retired now, but I'm still a certified, LE, CMP, and NRA instructor. I'll provide training free of charge to any citizen who comes to me. I'm not about to double charge them. I don't want anyone in my training class that HAS TO BE THERE, I only want people WHO WANT TO BE THERE.

I took an oath to the Constitution, I'm against any infringement on it, be it requiring one to pay a tax and train before he is protected by the constitution.

 

[markj]

And neither two require a test to be able to take advantage of our God Given Right.

What?? now you saying anyone can waltz in here and buy a gun? any non us citizen? everyone? No chance of that, there are requirements to be made first. Gotta follow them or go to jail right?

I never said pay, altho I did pay for my class and pay for my permit. No free lunchs here.

And show me where freedom of speech is really free. You must live in a fantasy world, our govt has had media blackouts, folks have had law suits for their version of free speech and lost.

I said my piece, a person should be able to load, unload and fire a gun before they are allowed to carry one, is just plain common sense.

Would you give a 2 year old a gun? Isnt that 2 year old the same as you on the 2nd amendment?

 

[Ditto_95]

A person is required by law to know the laws governing him/her regarding carrying a firearm.
Other than that, there should be no other requirement to CCW of own a firearm.
Since the COTUS says own and bear, carrying shouldn't be an issue.
Being responsible is the order of the day.
If you own and bear, be resposible for your own actions.

People shouldn't over think the requirement. Own what ever gun you want. Carry it responsibly. Don't shoot anyone you shouldn't. Shoot those that threaten your life.

Lets keep it simple and strictly by the constitution.

 

[FTG-05]

quote:
With no training requirement at all in Washington, one would expect that all the untrained concealed carry people surely must cause problems here: more unintentional shootings, more accidents with firearms, more misbehavior. Something, right?

Not so. There's no statistical difference at all between Oregon's accidental shooting rate and Washington's. None. There's no blood running in the street here.

There is one measurable difference between the two states, however: measured as a percentage of the adult population who have carry permits, Washington has roughly twice as many permit holders as Oregon does.

In other words, the only measurable result of Oregon's training requirement seems to be a chilling effect on the number of people exercising their right to carry a concealed handgun.

pax

This is an excellent analysis. Thank you very much, I appreciate it.

Al


ETA: I'll be taking my Utah CCW class this Sunday down here in Alabama. I'm looking forward to it!

 

[5whiskey]

My personal opinion on this whole issue?

All citizens 21 years of age or older (a sound argument could be made for increasing that age, but I'll stick with 21 for now) should receive training prior to them carrying. The difference between me and a rabid anti-gunner? The government should not charge a fee, or permit, or any other craziness. There should be no form of discouragement, back door attempts to take away rights, or state influenced media coverage on how the masses will end up just shooting themselves if they do carry (remember the CBS "active shooter" piece with the guy in the class CCWing?). Governments should seek out all law-abiding adults and BEG them to carry so as to strike fear in the hearts of criminals everywhere. Training would be conducted by local LEO instructors for the cost of the ammo. Follow-on training would be offered quarterly, again for the cost of the ammo, but not required.

I personally feel that most decent Americans should feel like it's their duty to carry. Doing so stands a very real chance of saving an innocent person's life. There are 3 accounts, off the top of my head, of a legit self defense shooting that was justified in my county over the past year. The victim of the initial crime lived every time. 2 of 3 bad guys are 6' under now. That's just 3 that I know of right now, there may be another 1 or 2. If you leave your house more than once a week, chances are you will encounter at least one time in your life that you will be glad (or wish) that you were armed. That doesn't mean you will use your weapon, or draw it, or do anything other than be glad it's there just in case things go south.

Of course I don't think anyone should be FORCED to carry, but I think everyone should be encouraged to carry. In this manner, competency training could be administered without making it a condition of a constitutional right. I also believe folks that do not "opt in" should be allowed to carry, but at that time they would have to pay a fee for their carry permit. Much like how it works now. In that manner, why would anyone reject free training to pay money without the training? And, the important part, training is indeed administered.

 

[markj]

I'll be taking my Utah CCW class this Sunday

Will you be using the Utah state gun? The 1911 sorry, I just read this on cnn. Utah has made the browning 1911 their state gun, he was raised in Utah after all.


I have a question for the legals here, can a person on a work visa from another country purchase a handgun in the USA? and/or get a CCW to go along with it?

 

[leadchucker]

...I have a question for the legals here, can a person on a work visa from another country purchase a handgun in the USA? and/or get a CCW to go along with it?

The FIREARMS TRANSACTION RECORD PART I - OVER-THE-COUNTER form asks these questions;

...If you are not a citizen of the United States, what is your INS-issued alien number or admission number?...

...Are you a nonimmigrant alien?...

I guess if you answer those questions satisfactorily, and get the Sheriff's office's blessing, you're good to go as far as buying goes.

...I, the undersigned applicant, being duly sworn, hereby make application for a concealed handgun permit and state that the following information is correct to the best of my knowledge.
I am a citizen of the United States and have been a resident of...

http://www.stanlysheriff.us/Concealed%20Gun%20Applicationpg3.pdf

As far as carrying concealed, looks like you're out of luck, at least in this state. IDK about other states.

 

[cptnugget]

Firearms safety

We require quite a bit of education of children, for various reasons, to prepare them to be members of society. What if basic firearms use and safety were part of the standard physical education curriculum at, say, the high school level?