Weaver vs Isosceles?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Clip from Indiana newspaper. Read it and weep.[/quote]

What town? Size of department?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>As police were entering the home, Cabell allegedly shot at police four times with a
.380-caliber semiautomatic handgun.
Police returned fire, shooting at least 104 rounds. [/quote]

LEO's fired after being fired upon? Did Cabell shoot from a hidden postion? Was he moving into another room after firing? Were the LEOs simply firing to give cover? Did they make it into the house, or were they firing blind from outside?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>This
was with the dept elite SWAT team.[/quote]

Was the SWAT team the intial contact officers? Or did they show up later?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I'll bet my last donut they have been to those fancy
schools and considered "highly trained." [/quote]

Again, what town, agency or department? What is 'highly trained' in Podunk might be a one-week course taken at A&M three years ago.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Kevlar...GO HOME!!!![/quote]

No comment.

LawDog


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"Go ahead, rely on Windows Sniper 4.0, if you want to, but I prefer not to need software patches when I'm in a firefight."
-Wolfgang Kies

[This message has been edited by LawDog (edited March 18, 2000).]
 
I was about to post, but LawDog posted my message for me.

In Stevens Point WI, The police dept. lacks for nothing. High taxes, no real financial drains. they get new cars (the whole fleet) every 1 to 2 years. They have all the latest gear and weapons. Yet none of them could shoot worth a hoot with one exception. They went to the range for qualification, and that was it. Never had to pass any physical tests either once out of the academy.
 
Back in the mid 80s when I went to FBI LEO Firearms Instructors School. they told us that the Weaver Stance was the best thing since sliced bread, I still have my notes. They told us that the only down side to the Weaver was that the bladed body stance to the target exposed the LEO's vest side pannels to gun fire. Back then the vests did not hve side pannels in them. I still teach and use the weaver but also introduce them to the Point Shoulder (Isosceles) and let the Officers decide which is best for them. The most natural by far is the Point Shoulder and is more of a reactive type stance. you have to practice the Weaver and then perhaps WTSHTF, you might assume the Weaver. Maybe....7th

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SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL POLICE, KEEP THEM INDEPENDENT.
 
What size was the dept? C'mon. Stop digging up silly and weak EXCUSES. Are you going to mail them a letter and tell them they don't know what they are doing? For your information is was not a small dept. Evansville Indiana. Hardly Podunk. They sure had the black velcro.
And they did hold a press conference justifying what took place. The whole idea of such units is quality of performance. I've got even better ones. Here is what SWAT teams think is "cool." This is a Mass, SWAT team showing how its's done. See any flaws?
Gets kinda silly doesn't it? So I guess we remain silent and just keep marching in this direction.
sillyswat2.jpg
 
Matrix,

Just my 2c..... I don't shoot competition, so take it w/a grain of salt. I believe its important to be familiar with both schools of shooting. And with variations w/in the two techniques. There may be defensive situations in which mastery of either technique would be superior. ie. If approached in tight quarters from left flank, a weaver would be quicker for a right hander. To get the body squared around facing the target and in particular in tight quarters, may be too slow and impossible....like being approached on the left car window at an intersection...which may call for a one hand shot.

I started out shooting weaver. I seemed to be slightly quicker with this method. I hated iso, and thought it looked sissified. After noticing inconsistancies in where my bullets landed over the years w/weaver, I reevaluated my position. Found that even w/9mm as easy as it is to hold the muzzle down, the impact point varied according to amount of isometric tension. Consistant groups were much easier to obtain and not much slower with isosolese. Instead of fighting the muzzle flip, it became more accurate just to let it happen and direct it. You may already know this, but I hope it helps someone.

robert

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"But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip; and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." -Jesus Christ (Luke 22:36, see John 3:15-18)
 
Lets try this, since this was originally started as a thread about training...,

Whats your favorite or current course of fire?

Since, as I posted above, I recently found shooting while moving to be a weak spot I have been trying to do more of it.

A course of fire I was shown just last week addresses this. Someone mentioned attending the FBI firearms school, you'll be familiar with this one.

You set up 4-5 targets down range. You mark off a square, we use 15 feet x 15 feet. Put boxes (ipsc style shooting boxes) at each corner. Now move clockwise from box to box while engaging the targets.
We have the RO walk behind us and "call" the shots. Its a simple system, if he says "A" zone, its a shot to the left side of the head. If he says "B" zone, its to the right side of the head and if he says "C" zone, its to center mass. He can call the shots at any point, with the focus on getting you to shoot while moving from box to box. Meaning, while walking. Its a tough one. Sunday we are going to do it while having the RO load our mags. with dummy rounds. Might as well include Mister Murphy in the exercise.

Hope this made sense. So far it hasn't mattered whether a guy uses a Weaver or Isoceles shooting platform. Shot placement is still not uniform. The toughest shots are the head shots, of course. Using only the side of the head is suppose to represent someone peeking out around cover/concealment or a hostage shot. Although at this point I don't see myself ever taking a hostage shot while moving. :)

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"JKD is about...discovering the cause of your own ignorance"
 
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