For me, it definitely seems so. My own experience is I have alot of semis and a few revolvers and rifles. I shoot all of them on a somehwat regular basis, and a few of them all of the time. My conditioned responses are all Glock, and it shows up quite often. Sometimes I get a new gun, like the Sig I bought a couple months ago, and love it right away, and want to think it may be the gun for me. But I always go back to Glock, its just what I am the best with. I would hope everyone who is into shooting would get to the point that handling thier gun would be like tying thier shoes.
weapon manipulation: is it second nature for you?
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I believe tests and timed competition have shown that looking while inserting a magazine in a semi-auto, or speed loader in a revolver, is faster than trying to do it by feel.
I'm fairly certain no one here is much faster than this.
If you can you must be famous, or shy.
Todd Jarrett Reload Techniques
Here is a second independent video, notice how he focuses on the magazine and the magazine well, just like Jarret did.
Speed Reload tips from S.W.A.T. Magazine.
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zombietactics
New member
nate45 said:
I'm not aware of any actual "testing", but I'd be willing to stipulate for purpose of discussion that it's probably true.
That somewhat begs a few other questions though. The first is whether the speed of mag change is the most important thing in a self-defense encounter. It absolutely is, in competition ... but then nothing in competition is ever shooting back, you know where everything is ahead of time, and it seldom changes outside of some very predictable cases with so-called "moving" targets.
I'd offer that speed is fairly important in an SD situation. But if we're talking about a few tenths of second difference or less, then maintaining situational awareness, breaking tunnel vision, etc. might possibly have a higher survival value.
Of course not all cases are the same. If you've shot to slide-lock and the fight has not ended, speed might be of paramount importance. If you're doing a top-off, maybe Clint Smith's advice holds true ... getting it right is more important than getting it fast.
The wider question is "what is the better default behavior?", given a rational appraisal of what is likely vs. what is simply plausible or possible. I tend to think that training two different techniques (highly optimized for particular circumstances, and requiring a cognitive choice of which to employ) you'll end up doing neither especially well, and probably screwing it up as a result if it ever hits the fan.
Without claiming any general superiority, I'll simply note that my own preferred technique - the only one I train with - has the gun positioned near my line of sight, while I either keep my eyes on target or scan/assess. I don't "look at the gun" per se, but it's within my field of view.
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357 Python
New member
It seems you learned a version of the Tueller Drill. This is usually done for police officers to show them how fast an assailant with a knive could get you from 21 feet away. Most officers don't even get their duty weapon out of their holsters before they get "cut or stabbed". The malfunction drill is a viable version to the main drill. This is why an officer may hold his fire until a BG with a knife crosses that 21 foot mark. They know how fast they could be killed.
I just use Glocks to carry, or shoot an IDPA match.
This is second nature to me, my Glock 19 is always loaded, always chambered, in holster, on bedside table. Many moons ago, shooting 1911's, malfunction drills were automatic, now with 16 rounds, a spare Glock17 magazine, I can not remember a malfunction.
The average IDPA match is 120 rounds, mag changes from locked back slide? I give a quick peek at the pistol, carrying out and about, 16 rounds, reloads?
Not so much.
This is second nature to me, my Glock 19 is always loaded, always chambered, in holster, on bedside table. Many moons ago, shooting 1911's, malfunction drills were automatic, now with 16 rounds, a spare Glock17 magazine, I can not remember a malfunction.
The average IDPA match is 120 rounds, mag changes from locked back slide? I give a quick peek at the pistol, carrying out and about, 16 rounds, reloads?
Not so much.
Frankly, one thing that jumps out at me in this thread is that people really seem to have no confidence in automatic pistols, which have been in use by armies around the world for over a hundred years, both striker fired and hammer fired (if that makes a difference to you). Why in these latter days are we still worrying about that?
Frank Ettin
Administrator
How can you possibly conclude that from this thread?
[1] People seem to have great confidence in semi-auto pistols. That's what most people carry for self defense and what are carried bu the vast majority of LEOs. That reflects confidence.
[2] But is is a fact that semi-auto pistols do malfunction on occasion. Therefore, appropriate training and practice should include dealing with the rare malfunction.
[3] In any case, for the military, a sidearm is a secondary weapon.
Frank Ettin
Administrator
You really seem to have trouble getting your facts straight.BlueTrain said:
[1] Doing a search of this thread, six posts (including yours) mention the word "revolvers", and seven mention the word "revolver."
[2] Of those, only three express a preference for revolvers based on perceived better reliability.
[3] And how that translates to:
BlueTrain said:
zombietactics
New member
Bluetrain said:
Because some people don't know better, and don't want to know better. The firearms "community" contains many people who - by their nature - are slow to adapt to change of any kind.
Somebody is a Semi man and goes all weak in the knees if somebody says revolver and then he can't see the rest of the posts. To bad, so sad.
You would hate shooting with me. I don;t have a lot of money and I don;t have any fancy guns unless you count my Weatherby. Every single time I go out I take a different batch of guns with me. sometimes semi, sometimes revolver, sometimes some of both. I have been doing this for serious practice since 1971 although I started shooting earlier. I may not live up to anybody's expectations of being professionally proficient but I can handle every gun I have with confidence and so what I have to do to hit my target whether it be bullseye, rabbit or deer. Chances are I can handle any gun you hand me just as proficiently because I don't believe in being a one trick pony. It's my opinion that the specialist handicaps himself unnecessarily.
You would hate shooting with me. I don;t have a lot of money and I don;t have any fancy guns unless you count my Weatherby. Every single time I go out I take a different batch of guns with me. sometimes semi, sometimes revolver, sometimes some of both. I have been doing this for serious practice since 1971 although I started shooting earlier. I may not live up to anybody's expectations of being professionally proficient but I can handle every gun I have with confidence and so what I have to do to hit my target whether it be bullseye, rabbit or deer. Chances are I can handle any gun you hand me just as proficiently because I don't believe in being a one trick pony. It's my opinion that the specialist handicaps himself unnecessarily.
FireForged
New member
I agree with James..
Im not going to turn out the lights and try and assemble my AR in the dark and Im not going to clear jams while wearing a blindfold. I would much rather use that time to practice a clean break from concealed OWB. In ref to a jammed weapon, I realize that when dealing with a deadly enemy in close proximity, you may just have to forget trying to fix a failed weapon and go to another method of defense. Sometimes you may have to close the cylinder with 2 rounds and fight a charging enemy rather than risking precious time trying to ensure that you get all 6.
Im not going to turn out the lights and try and assemble my AR in the dark and Im not going to clear jams while wearing a blindfold. I would much rather use that time to practice a clean break from concealed OWB. In ref to a jammed weapon, I realize that when dealing with a deadly enemy in close proximity, you may just have to forget trying to fix a failed weapon and go to another method of defense. Sometimes you may have to close the cylinder with 2 rounds and fight a charging enemy rather than risking precious time trying to ensure that you get all 6.
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Weapon manipulation skills are needed. Blind field stripping, maybe not but it is useful.
I don't care who you are if your gun goes click instead of bang you are gonna look at it. It may just be a nanosecond as you clear it or change mags but you will look at it. The trick is quick looks.
Tactics will aid you in having time to perform the necessary drill. Remember get to cover.
There was a Dallas, TX officer killed in a shootout during the 1970's because when he went to reload his 1911 the slide would not go back in battery and the BG walked up and killed him. The slide lock spring had broken and he just made sure and pushed it down manually during quals, but forgot about the broken spring in the shootout.
We must also remember that a gun is only part of the solution, you may need unarmed self defense skills. I know somebody is gonna say "I am 62 years old I am not fighting with anybody" And if you gun malfunctions, you drop it, run out of ammo? Thats kinda like the definition of a POW-Hoping the guy you were just trying to kill has mercy on you.
I don't care who you are if your gun goes click instead of bang you are gonna look at it. It may just be a nanosecond as you clear it or change mags but you will look at it. The trick is quick looks.
Tactics will aid you in having time to perform the necessary drill. Remember get to cover.
There was a Dallas, TX officer killed in a shootout during the 1970's because when he went to reload his 1911 the slide would not go back in battery and the BG walked up and killed him. The slide lock spring had broken and he just made sure and pushed it down manually during quals, but forgot about the broken spring in the shootout.
We must also remember that a gun is only part of the solution, you may need unarmed self defense skills. I know somebody is gonna say "I am 62 years old I am not fighting with anybody" And if you gun malfunctions, you drop it, run out of ammo? Thats kinda like the definition of a POW-Hoping the guy you were just trying to kill has mercy on you.
Frank Ettin
Administrator
He might well have had a malfunction that he didn't properly deal with. But there is no part called a "slide lock spring" in a 1911. Do you know what the problem was?Nanuk said:
Justice06RR
New member
With my own SD weapons I am fairly confident of my weapon manipulation. I think the key is picking a reliable firearm and practicing with it.
In my case a 12ga Mossberg500 which is pretty much bullet-proof for reliability, and 5.56 AR15 which is easy to operate and very accurate as well. Practicing reloads and shooting drills is a good way to be familiar with the firearm you use.
In my case a 12ga Mossberg500 which is pretty much bullet-proof for reliability, and 5.56 AR15 which is easy to operate and very accurate as well. Practicing reloads and shooting drills is a good way to be familiar with the firearm you use.
My guns, my Jeep, problem? Immediate fix, any problem.
When I get in an other persons vehicle, and there is more than one problem, that I can see! I want out!
When I was a 1911 shooter, my clearing of a stove pipe (a fairly common occasion) was so quick, some Range Officers missed it.
Now, I can not remember a failure to fire. A Glock 19 I carry, and use the same one in IDPA.
When I get in an other persons vehicle, and there is more than one problem, that I can see! I want out!
When I was a 1911 shooter, my clearing of a stove pipe (a fairly common occasion) was so quick, some Range Officers missed it.
Now, I can not remember a failure to fire. A Glock 19 I carry, and use the same one in IDPA.