weapon lights

If I'm hiding in a building, and you're clearing the building with a flashlight, I'll "kill" you every time.
In training I've seen it happen time and time again.
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I specifically do not advocate doing building clearing. That is something that requires very specialized training and needs more than 1 person. The only way I would advocate moving through a house with a light is if you have to get a family member that might be in danger or if you are going to investigate a noise that you are not sure is an intruder.

My comment is based on your "ninjas hiding in the shadows" comment. So I guess that while you were doing your low light training you didn't hide in the shadowed part of a room. You just stood out there in the open in a lit area and still managed to "kill" everyone...:rolleyes:

Why not?
Before I go to bed, I walk through the house and check the doors and windows.
I don't have a humongous home so it only takes a couple of minutes.
You care enough about your security to get a firearm, to put a light on your firearm, to get an alarm system, but you can't be bothered to check the doors before going to bed?
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I can't 100% guarantee anything that I do, can you? Even a physical/visual check is only 85% effective statistically.

I have a 1,400 ft^2 house with 4 doors. I check all of them every night and turn on the security system. There have been several times that I have gotten up the next morning to find that I had forgotten to lock a door or my wife had gotten up and unlocked a door for some reason and forgot to lock it back or even forgotten to turn on the security system. That is one of the reasons every thing is in layers of security, in case one fails or is not set correctly. I also have 3-point locking doors and dogs (outside) for further levels of security. Nothing is 100% guaranteed. I only have a light on my long arm. I don't use a light on my handgun. I tried it years ago but I CCW a separate light, so I keep a separate light on my bedside handgun as well to keep commonality of training.

Why wouldn't a family member simply knock on the door or ring the door bell?
Do your family members know that you are armed?
If so, then it seems incredibly stupid for them to simply let themselves in unannounced, knowing that you are armed.
And wouldn't they turn on some light once they were inside your home?
Why would they creep around your home in the dark?
This makes no sense whatsoever.
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Why would they knock? The reason they are checking on me is because I am not answering the phone. Undoubtedly they would turn on a light when they got in. But that isn't what I am talking about. If I am in the bed asleep and someone starts jiggling door handles and the door comes open unannounced, I will be waiting there with a gun trained on the front door and a flashlight in my hand. If I can get there fast enough, I will turn on the exterior light, but I can't guarantee that I will hear it in time.

And how would you know that the stupid teenager wasn't there to kill you?
This might come as a shock to you, but teenagers have been known to rape and kill just like adults.
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Maybe they would. But I personally would not want shoot an unarmed teenager there to swipe my Xbox, even if he was in my house and I had the right to shoot him. Without a light, how would I know if he was carrying a gun/knife/etc? You would be okay with shooting an unarmed kid?

So she quietly crept in to the darkened house and kept the lights out?
And you were just sitting in the dark at home?
And did you "light her up" with your weapon mounted light?

This is just nonsense.
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Yep she did just "sneak in". She was scheduled to come home the following day, but instead she drove through all night. We lived in a subdivision at the time with no security system and the inside was somewhat well lit by street lights/neighbors security lights. (Very similar to your description) She didn't open the garage because she was in the company car and she came in the front door because it was so late (early) and she just wanted to get to bed.

I am a very light sleeper. When I heard the car door slam, I woke up, but I figured it was just one of the neighbors. Then I heard the front door jiggling (It sounded to me like someone picking the lock because she couldn't find the key hole in the dark), I got up, armed myself and managed to make it to the front door right as it was opening. When the door swung open, I lit her up with the light in my offhand. It scared the daylights out of her because she wasn't expecting anyone to be home.

After everyone had calmed down, we ran back through the scenario and what each of us did wrong. I should have told her that I decided not to go visit my parents, she should have called to tell me that she was going to just drive home, she should have come in through the garage because that wouldn't have been as suspicious and she would have noticed my truck was there.

Would you have just shot your wife?

When someone invades another's home, THEY have chosen to place their life in jeopardy.
I don't want to kill anyone, but I'm not going to endanger my life by stopping to ask an intruder what his intentions are.
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You don't stop and "ask and intrudure what his intentions are". You put the light on them and if they have no means of harming you and they make no agressive motions towards you, you don't shoot. You hold them at gunpoint until the police arrive. I don't want to kill anyone but I would feel much better about it if I knew I was defending myself.

I wonder if a court case could be built on a "accidental" shooting based on not having a means of identifying a target? I bet even a "Castle Doctrine" shoot can be invalidated if it can be proven to be an "accident". Even if there are no criminal charges, it does open the shooter up to civil liability.

But it is your life.

Good luck.
 
How dang hard can it be to flip a light switch on in your own home? I have light switches all over my house, at every single doorway, that turn on bright overhead lights. What do I want to mess around with flashlight for?
 
1: All guns are loaded
2: Keep your finger off the trigger until you're ready to shoot
3: Never point your gun at something you don't want to shoot
4: Be sure of your target and what's behind it.

Ask your self, do you really want to point your gun at someone you can't identify, such as your child or grand child.

Wouldn't it be better (safer) to use a flashlight so you can keep your pistol pointed in a safe direction?
 
How dang hard can it be to flip a light switch on in your own home? I have light switches all over my house, at every single doorway, that turn on bright overhead lights. What do I want to mess around with flashlight for?
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Are your room lights next to your bed?

Mine aren't, they are by the bedroom door. I would have to go to the door to turn them on. If I hear a noise, I don't want to get up and wander over in the dark to the light switch. The hall light when turned on from my bedroom shines right over my head in the hall and throws almost no light into the living room.

If someone is in your house, do you want to have the lights on over you, but they are still in the shadows? I am sure you have looked out the window with the lights on behind you at night. It is nearly impossible to see anything backlit on top of "skylining" yourself and making yourself a target.

Now if you have a way to turn on all the lights in your house with a remote control, that would be really useful.

But I don't, so I choose to use a flashlight.

I also use my light for unwanted night time critters of the 4 legged type.

I also use it to go unplug electronic devices or go get a drink of water when the power goes out during a storm and to get from place to place when we have a ice storm and lose power for a week or more at a time.

I honestly don't see how someone wouldn't want a flashlight. I keep at least one with me all the time, every single day.
 
So, the police have a search warrant and have entered my home by force.
Do you recommend pointing a loaded pistol, with a light affixed, at the police?!?!
That will get you killed.
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As would aiming a pistol at them that does not have a light attached. Remember, they will actually use a flashlight to identify a threat...whether you have a light on your gun or not is irrelevant.
 
How dang hard can it be to flip a light switch on in your own home? I have light switches all over my house, at every single doorway, that turn on bright overhead lights. What do I want to mess around with flashlight for?
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Because it can give you an advantage. If you turn on your bright overhead lights, then you will be just as affected as an intruder. If you flash your light on the intruder, he will be affected much more than you will.

Just because you have a flashlight doesn't mean that you can't use the light switches in your house (it really is amazing me how many people here have this mentality). It is just another tool that, when used properly, will give you an advantage in a defensive scenario.
 
You also don't need to aim directly at a person to ID them with a weaponlight. My Streamlight TLR-1 throws out a wide "halo" around the central hot spot in the beam that is enought to ID a person.
Your aiming in thier general direction but not at them, this plus having good trigger control (finger outside of trigger guard) is safe enough for me.
 
There are pros and cons to both which is why you should honestly have both at your disposal given the circumstance. You don't have to limit yourself to just one type of light. If I was only allowed one type of light, it would be a hand-held.

The argument of "not pointing a gun at anything you don't want to destroy" goes out the window IMO in this situation. You are possibly in a situation where you will need to make a split second decision of whether the individual is friend or foe. You aren't on the flat range anymore. In a fight some rules get broken. Just my opinion.
 
peacefulgary said:
If I'm hiding in a building, and you're clearing the building with a flashlight, I'll "kill" you every time.
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100% correct.

When you flashlight ninjas come to clear the living room with the flashlight, how do you know which side the bad guy is hiding on? How do you know whether he's behind the sofa on the left, the easy chair on the right, or the TV stand, the computer desk, the china hutch, or just around the wall in the kitchen? All your light is going to do is leave nice deep shadows behind them. He know's you're coming if you've flashed the light even once on the way. Where ever he is, once he sees that light flashing or pointing away from him, he knows exactly where you're looking and he can pop out and zap you if he feels like it.

You would be much better off actually getting some real low-light training rather than buying the latest tacti-cool gizmo.
 
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You would be much better off actually getting some real low-light training rather than buying the latest tacti-cool gizmo.
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Could you kindly point us ninja's in the direction some low light training that doesn't use a flashlight? (Even the NOD training I am aware off promotes the use of infrared filters on flashlights)

I am interested to read about that.

Who teaches such a course?

Please illuminate us.:D
 
I'm sorry but this is why trying to clear a house yourself is silliness in the first place. You cannot cover all the angles yourself. Even if you are extensively trained at clearing a building (which I'm sure that most of us aren't) you are still at a major disadvantage doing so yourself. Proper clearing can only be done with multiple people.

If you do extensive "low-light" and "no-light" shooting training it will be done with a flashlight. You cannot properly identify your target without illuminating it. Short, momentary blips from your light, movement and using cover are your friend. Keeping your light on constantly will get you shot. Standing in the middle of an open room will get you shot. Not using cover will get you shot. This is where proper training and tactics need to take over. Everyone needs to self-evaluate their level of training and the layout of their own house before deciding on trying to clear their house when they think there may be a threat. Its usually its a much better option to take up a defensible location and wait for the trained professionals to arive rather then try to clear your house yourself.
 
I can't 100% guarantee anything that I do, can you? Even a physical/visual check is only 85% effective statistically.
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Yes I can.
I check the doors and windows every night before going to bed.
Always.
I have never just forgotten to lock a door before going to bed.
I hope you're not getting senile.

Why wouldn't a family member simply knock on the door or ring the door bell?
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Why would they knock?
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Why would they knock?!?!

Because they don't want to get shot!!!

I know that my brother is usually carrying a pistol and that he sleeps with a firearm within arm's reach.
If he's not answering his phone you can be certain that I'm going to knock on the door and ring the bell before trying to enter his home.
And if I do enter his home the first thing I would do is loudly yell out that it was me at the door and for him not to shoot.
I sure as heck wouldn't quietly creep in to his home unannounced.
That would most likely get me killed.


Maybe they would. But I personally would not want shoot an unarmed teenager there to swipe my Xbox, even if he was in my house and I had the right to shoot him. Without a light, how would I know if he was carrying a gun/knife/etc? You would be okay with shooting an unarmed kid?
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I wouldn't see an "unarmed teen" or a "kid".
I would only see an intruder in my home.
Light or no light, there's no way of knowing the intentions of the intruder.
Even with a light you cannot tell if the intruder has a pistol in his pocket or waistband...you simply cannot tell whether the intruder is armed or not without physically frisking the intruder.
I'm not going to wake to find someone standing in my bedroom doorway, get a flashlight to light him up, ask him what he's doing in my home, ask him if he has a weapon hidden on his person, ask him if he plans to harm me or my wife or if he's just here to steal, ask him how old he is, etc....
This kind of mentality can get you killed.
Again, I don't WANT to kill anyone.
But when a person chooses to invade another persons home, THEY are the ones who have chosen to put their own life in jeopardy.


Would you have just shot your wife?
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If she quietly crept in to the house...maybe so.
But my wife is no idiot.
She knows not to sneak in to the home, just as I know not to sneak in to the home.
As I'm entering my home I always call out "It's me" or "Hey honey, I'm home", etc...
Why?
Because we don't want to get shot.



You don't stop and "ask and intrudure what his intentions are". You put the light on them and if they have no means of harming you and they make no agressive motions towards you, you don't shoot. You hold them at gunpoint until the police arrive.
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Or you grab your flashlight and click it on and get shot!

I think that any intelligent person would have good reason to believe that any person committing a home invasion is most likely going to be armed and have evil intentions.
 
Yes I can.
I check the doors and windows every night before going to bed.
Always.
I have never just forgotten to lock a door before going to bed.
I hope you're not getting senile.
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Obviously you are a genius and vastly superior intellect to all those around completely blow the curve for several decaded of industrial engieering statistical analysis 100% all the time forever and will never ever have a lapse of concentration.:rolleyes:

I wish I were like you. It would make my life a lot easier. I guess if you were a pilot you wouldn't need a pre-fight check list either.

There is apparently something wrong with me because there is never anything else that may be on my mind or I might be interested in while going to bed with my very attractive wife.

Why would they knock?!?!

Because they don't want to get shot!!!

I know that my brother is usually carrying a pistol and that he sleeps with a firearm within arm's reach.
If he's not answering his phone you can be certain that I'm going to knock on the door and ring the bell before trying to enter his home.
And if I do enter his home the first thing I would do is loudly yell out that it was me at the door and for him not to shoot.
I sure as heck wouldn't quietly creep in to his home unannounced.
That would most likely get me killed.
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So if you hear someone jiggling the lock on your front door, and you weren't expecting anyone, you don't go investigate? Even if someone knocks on my front door unexpectedly at 3:00 in the morning, I go to the door armed and I take a flashlight with me. If I can, I hit the porch light 1st to see who it is, but if the door comes open before I can get there, I want to know who I have my weapon pointed at. When I go to visit my brother, or Mom I yell out I am there, but that doesn't mean that I won't forget that some time or have my mind otherwise occupied when going into their houses. Of course, I know my Mother and my brother have flashlights and don't shoot without knowing what is in their sights too.

I wouldn't see an "unarmed teen" or a "kid".
I would only see an intruder in my home.
Light or no light, there's no way of knowing the intentions of the intruder.
Even with a light you cannot tell if the intruder has a pistol in his pocket or waistband...you simply cannot tell whether the intruder is armed or not without physically frisking the intruder.
I'm not going to wake to find someone standing in my bedroom doorway, get a flashlight to light him up, ask him what he's doing in my home, ask him if he has a weapon hidden on his person, ask him if he plans to harm me or my wife or if he's just here to steal, ask him how old he is, etc....
This kind of mentality can get you killed.
Again, I don't WANT to kill anyone.
But when a person chooses to invade another persons home, THEY are the ones who have chosen to put their own life in jeopardy.
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If I hear a noise in my living room and I go to investigate and I shine my flashlight and see someone trying to unhook my X-box, I am not going to pull the trigger on him. I am going to tell him to get down on the floor face down, put his hands behind his head and cross his feet. Then I am going to hold him at gunpoint until the police arrive. If he makes a motion to draw a weapon, etc, then yes, I would shoot.

You would just shoot at a shadowy shape with no knowledge whatsoever who or what exactly was going on? Just because you are "justified" by law since they are an intruder?

If she quietly crept in to the house...maybe so.
But my wife is no idiot.
She knows not to sneak in to the home, just as I know not to sneak in to the home.
As I'm entering my home I always call out "It's me" or "Hey honey, I'm home", etc...
Why?
Because we don't want to get shot.
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I like my wife a lot. I really don't want to shoot her. :D So if you go into what you think is an empty house, you yell out "Hey honey, I'm home?" So you are infallible with locking doors but not infallible with knowing whether someone is home or not?

Or you grab your flashlight and click it on and get shot!

I think that any intelligent person would have good reason to believe that any person committing a home invasion is most likely going to be armed and have evil intentions.
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So you just grab a gun and start firing at any shape you see? What if your wife got up during the night you didn't realize it and you wake up from a deep sleep?

I don't disagree with you that someone breaking into your home while you are there, probably has bad things on their mind. My disagreement is that I believe it is bad judgement to shoot at something you are not 100% sure you want to kill and how you can verify that without being able to see what you are shooting at.

Do you CCW without a light as well?
 
Its usually its a much better option to take up a defensible location and wait for the trained professionals to arive rather then try to clear your house yourself
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No kidding!

But that goes out the window if you have loved one's in the house that cannot defend themselfs and need to be secured. (the old and young)

A Bad Guy can have my TV, Appliances and Computer I have insurance... But not my family.
People are seem to be confused about how to use lights and why you would be moving through the house. I'm not going out there to eliminate the BG I'm going out there to get to and secure the other parts of my family. Once there it is baricade and dig in until the police show up.


I'm not going to wake to find someone standing in my bedroom doorway, get a flashlight to light him up, ask him what he's doing in my home, ask him if he has a weapon hidden on his person, ask him if he plans to harm me or my wife or if he's just here to steal, ask him how old he is, etc....
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Neither am I... Its going to be:
"Light" him up. then "Lite" him up! And we arn't talking about some POS maglight. We are talking about 100+ lumens that will mess up your vision if shined at your face. (even in the daytime)
 
Crow Hunter said:
Could you kindly point us ninja's in the direction some low light training that doesn't use a flashlight?
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Didn't mean to imply that there was another way besides the flashlight (although night-vision goggles are cool, played with them but never trained with them), rather I was trying to emphasize that my training has proven to me that no one is a ninja and there is NO WAY you'll be succesful trying to clear a house single-handedly with a flashlight against a determined opponent.

All my low-light training has been with a flashlight, initially with Gunsite but since with various traveling trainers a couple of times a year. We use a military site that has large unused ammo bunkers on it, one of which has been turned into a Simunitions shoothouse.
 
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Too many variables in life NOT to have a light

Period.


Do any of you ever have guest?
Do you lock them in the guest room if you do? (if yes what do you use for a chamber pot?)


Seriously guys here is a senario for you (just as an example):

A few beers during a football game and hey, one of your guest shouldn't be driving. No problem sleep it off on the coutch. You hear a crash in the living room as they get up to make water and your heart is pumping and your don't remember inviting them to stay the night because you've just been awoken in the middle of the night....

Now you've just shot one of your best friends because you saw an unfamiliar "shape" in the hallway.
 
Yes, I have a lamp by my bed. It's just too easy for me to light up my house, rather than fumble around with a flashlight that probably has weak or dead batteries. And, I have no intention of dangling a flashlight (or a bayonet) from my pistol. No locks, no extra magazines, no lasers, no flashlights - too much junk!
 
The argument of "not pointing a gun at anything you don't want to destroy" goes out the window IMO in this situation
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Remind me not to do a building search with you.

I've don't thousands of building searches most alone but at times when I had someone with me we would make an special effort not to sweep your partner.

No sir, I'll stick to a flash light. And I don't want a bright one, those suckers reflect off everything, often back to your eyes.

Weapons lights also would make a nice handy target.

But to each his own I guess.
 
Remind me not to do a building search with you.

I've don't thousands of building searches most alone but at times when I had someone with me we would make an special effort not to sweep your partner.
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Point taken but that is not what I meant. Obviously you have identified your partner so sweeping them with your light to identify them would not be necessary.

I have a feeling that you have had your gun pointed at several people that ended up not being threats but at that point you did not know otherwise. This is more to the point of what I was saying.
 
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