We were cheated

[L_Killkenny]

Question..Is hunting 6 people on 120 acres the norm? I know very little about Wisconsin..but around here hunting that many on small acreage would be considered by many unethical.... We hunt 1 person to minimum 100 acres on our lease..sometimes I feel like that is too many....

What works in Texas doesn't work everywhere. You're talkin about 2 completely different kinda of hunting. Texas is big with lots of large tracks of huntable land. SE Wisconsin is farm ground broken up by many many land owners and while it has more timber than the area I hunt here in Iowa, 120 acres of timber is a pretty good size chunk for this area. Big mistake to base what works and is ethical for everyone everywhere completely based on your local circumstances, laws and customs. In short....... Don't speak about what you don't know.

 

[Hunter Customs]

In Missouri it's against the law to bait period.
My question is how did you know they were putting out huge piles of corn?

Here's my experience with leased land for hunting.

We have a neighbor that leases his land for hunting, the problem is his land is barron, he's raped the land of every tree and piece of cover that was on the land, so there's not much on his land to hunt.

So the guys that lease his land put their stands right on the fence line of the surrounding neighbors who have not raped their land of all the cover.
They shoot deer on neighboring land and cross the fence to retreive the deer they shoot.

My brother and I hunt an 80 acre piece that is heavy with timber and brush, so the deer hole up in there because it's the only cover on that section.

This year we caught one of the hunters that had the surrounding land leased shooting a deer on us and climbing the fence to get his deer.
We confronted him about it and he wanted to give us the deer.
We told him to keep the deer but the next time we catch him or any of his buddies that are leasing hunting rights on the other land on our side of the fence we will call the sheriff and have them arrested for trespassing.

As for baiting and food plots to attract the deer, I would say there's a very fine line between the two.

Best Regards
Bob Hunter
www.huntercustoms.com

 

[Drhc116]

Warbird. Just a quick question. What was planted in yall's food plots?

 

[Art Eatman]

"As for baiting and food plots to attract the deer, I would say there's a very fine line between the two."

No "fine line" where the law is concerned. In this particular case, food plots are within the law. Baiting is not.

And in this particular case, people who had paid money for the hunting opportunity--which, based on past history was good--had that opportunity reduced by a criminal action. Tantamount to theft.

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

Question..Is hunting 6 people on 120 acres the norm? I know very little about Wisconsin..but around here hunting that many on small acreage would be considered by many unethical.... We hunt 1 person to minimum 100 acres on our lease..sometimes I feel like that is too many....

That's funny, right there.

My hunting group routinely hunts a 12 acre plot, 5 of which is unhunted open field/cabin with 5, sometimes 7, people. We're talking 1 acre per person here.

Sometimes a couple of us are on neighboring properties so we are hunting maybe 50 acres with 5-7 people.

We also have a small lease that is just barely 100 acres TOTAL and at least half of it is open field and a solid 20 acres of it we never touch, so we're hunting maybe 30 acres with as many as 5 people.

 

[JimDandy]

Quote:
Question..Is hunting 6 people on 120 acres the norm? I know very little about Wisconsin..but around here hunting that many on small acreage would be considered by many unethical.... We hunt 1 person to minimum 100 acres on our lease..sometimes I feel like that is too many....

What works in Texas doesn't work everywhere. You're talkin about 2 completely different kinda of hunting. Texas is big with lots of large tracks of huntable land. SE Wisconsin is farm ground broken up by many many land owners and while it has more timber than the area I hunt here in Iowa, 120 acres of timber is a pretty good size chunk for this area. Big mistake to base what works and is ethical for everyone everywhere completely based on your local circumstances, laws and customs. In short....... Don't speak about what you don't know.

To be fair the guy did say it was a question.. Maybe I read that differently but it sounded like he was genuinely asking what conditions were like more than passing judgement.

 

[Wyoredman]

Originally Posted by Keg
Question..Is hunting 6 people on 120 acres the norm?

Out west, it is against the law to hunt any people!

Now, hunting big game on thousands of acres all by yourself is completely legal, and quite common!

 

[Keg]

Don't speak about what you don't know.

To be fair the guy did say it was a question.. Maybe I read that differently but it sounded like he was genuinely asking what conditions were like more than passing judgement.

That is correct....I thought I made that clear....I was asking a question....It's not hard to figure out..if U go back and read it....Question was the very first word....

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

The inclusion in the question of ethical implications is bound to elicit some fairly strong responses.

That part seems odd to me anyway. I can't for the life of me figure out what sort of ethical considerations there might be for numbers of acres per hunter.

 

[Keg]

That part seems odd to me anyway. I can't for the life of me figure out what sort of ethical considerations there might be for numbers of acres per hunter.
Today 03:00 PM

Ok Brian...I think U may be kinda setting me up here..but..here..U could hurt a deer herd if U were to hunt too many folks on small acreage....I run a 850 acre management lease of which is part of an area of thousands of acres..all COOP....This is east Texas here..and parts of east Texas have many small parcels of land here....There are areas where everyone in the family hunt small places and if a buck has horns it is shot....(things are better now with new game laws)....My Papaw saw his first deer in the 50's around here....Areas of the county had no deer....They were trapped and reintroduced into areas of many counties....

I said originally..I know little of Wisconsin....I am sharing knowlege of experience here and asking questions about there....

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

Hm. I suppose.

I'm not sure I buy that unless you're spreading out so far you're actually hunting different deer, which is all but impossible almost everywhere I've ever hunted.

Even if I include all the neighbors, that I know of, we're hunting perhaps 2,500 acres and there are a whole bunch of hunters, way more than 25, and we're still all hunting the same deer.

Good luck convincing anyone that they have to hunt somewhere else!

 

[MLeake]

It is funny how people don't realize the difference the location makes, with regard to land area.

This doesn't only apply to hunting.

With horses, for another example, if we had moved to high elevation Colorado (we had looked around Pagosa) we would have needed three to five times the acreage we have in Missouri because of the relative density of grasses and vegetation, and relative availability of water.

OTOH, when we lived in N Georgia, due to the greater amounts of forested area, we seemed to see a lot more deer than we do north of KC.

 

[buck460XVR]

As for baiting and food plots to attract the deer, I would say there's a very fine line between the two.

No "fine line" where the law is concerned. In this particular case, food plots are within the law. Baiting is not.

As I said in my first post, like Bob, I see little difference between planting a food plot and dumpin' a bag of grain on the ground. Both are used as an attractant(as in bait) to lure deer to a specific spot and to hopefully keep them close. The state of Wisconsin(where I and Warbirdlover hunt) agrees. It's the reason they legalized baiting a few years back. Why let a person plant specific foods in a spot for no reason other than to attract deer to it, when you won't allow another to dump the same crop on top the ground? The reason that baiting is illegal in the area Warbirdlover hunts has nuttin' to do with local ethics or hunting practices. It's the same reason you can't feed deer in that area even if you don't hunt over the feed. The reason is CWD. The Wisconsin DNR believes that CWD is transmitted thru contact with saliva and other body fluids. They believe by dumping food in a small area and congregating the deer in this small area ups the likelihood of exposure by healthy deer to the Prion that causes CWD. Baiting is legal in most areas of the state.......only in counties where CWD has been identified as a problem and those counties adjoining has baiting been halted. Every year the ban in these areas is reconsidered because of little evidence that it has slowed down the progress of the disease. Also because the planting of food plots congregates the same deer the DNR is attempting to keep apart. Again, very little difference, and that difference being a bait pile is easily identified. A food plot on agricultural ground is not, especially if it imitates or is a extension of a normal crop field, or is just a few rows left next to the woods.

I also said in my first post that I believe the pressure put on the small acreage by bowhunters immediately prior to the opening of gun season probably had more effect on travel patterns of the mature bucks than the piles of corn across the fence. I still feel this way. Mature bucks don't get mature by being continuously harassed. Deer less mature may tolerate some human presence in their core area before changing that core area, but big bucks don't. Bowhunters going to stand twice a day and walking thru an area do not a sanctuary make, regardless of how stealthy they are. 6 people walking into their stands in the dark on 120 acres does not leave many deer laying in their beds. It takes something to drive them back, as in more pressure from somewhere else. If they get shot before they get there, they never do make it back. From my experience hunting similar small parcels in Wisconsin, is that deer hunting is either feast or famine. Either you load up or you see only a few. If you have no adjoining parcels to drive/push later in the season, you will see very few deer after opening morning unless someone else is pushing them to you. By the second morning deer in these types of areas are totally nocturnal, because of hunting pressure. These deer have been educated for two months by bowhunters and the youth and disabled hunts. 1 or 2 good hunters on 240 acres and you may see some normal deer movement after opening day, if that 240 acres also includes a sanctuary. As others have said, finding corn in a deers stomach is not a sure sign that it's been eatin' at a bait pile. There's a reason many Wisconsin farmers put cattle out on picked corn fields in the winter. The same reason geese land in those same picked corn fields.........corn.

Warbirdlover, if the neighbors are bringin' in deer to corn, and the same deer are ignoring your food plots, I suggest you re-evaluate what you plant. If you have solid evidence that the neighbors are violating, than you must do what you believe is the right thing to do. Just make sure the owner of the lease is not telling you stories to justify his poor choice in food plots and to justify his lease price for next year.

 

[warbirdlover]

The food plots were pretty much ate up by gun season. There purpose was to get the deer on the land while the corn crop was in the fields. It worked. They were small plots of natural foods, not corn. The farmer that planted them is one of the best deer hunters I know. And he knows more about the deer habits and what they eat then most DNR biologists!

There's only 3 hunters that bow hunt the land and rarely all at the same time. They have little or no affect on whether the deer stay or go. I want to emphasize that the only thing that has changed this year is not seeing or getting any good bucks when for the last 7 years I've been in on this lease we always got around 4 bucks with 1 or 2 being monsters. We had more monsters on the land this year then we've ever seen and not one during the rifle season. The neighbors did not bait like this until this year.

I'll shut up for now. I bought a muzzleloader to use this weekend after letting the deer calm down. We have a 10 day muzzleloader season which started this Monday (the next day after the close of the rifle season). The bow hunters won't be out there and probably I'll be the only one. The neighbors filled their buck tags. If there is any of the big bucks that survived rifle season I might get a chance. I'll let you all know how it goes.

 

[Sure Shot Mc Gee]

Warbirdlover I see a big buck in your future. How do I know. >There a full moon out tonight._

I wish you the best of luck on your up coming B/P hunt. As I'll be doing the same starting tomorrow evening. (Wed) Anxious to hit the road for that 254 mile drive up again in the early Am.
Just to offer some clarity I do own 160 acres that my son and I hunt on. The problem your having. I have in reverse Sir. A party 8-10 hunters that lease 5-40s directly across the road from me. They've been leasing the same land from a timber company for the past 8-10 years. Those fellows start their deer enhancement program in Sept. And heavily do so till rifle season is over with. As the main guy of their party lives not more that 1/2 hour away from their lease. And from what I've been told, goes to his Camp every third day to check those little boxes in front of 12-box stands darn near all Fall. Sept thru Nov.
Those guys did very well this year again as usual at the end of rifle season. The best part about this whole ordeal from year to year are two things.

1st. During B/P season those across the road they don't hunt then. Can't handle exposure to the cold I guess. That's to bad_ So anything that comes my way is indeed fair chase.
The 2nd thing. This year for the very first time their leased land has been up For Sale since late summer. Hasn't sold yet. But that aspect can change quick. So with all their monkey business going on for years. "Patience has its rewards." (sold some day)

I don't grain and probably never will. Just a plain old un-cut hay field to watch over for me. Honestly I'm just happy to sit and watch my surrounding scenic view of some beautiful snow covered country this time of year. So beautiful, that it makes one feel insignificant. Perhaps warbirdlover you will benefit in the same way as I have. Harvesting a Deer is just bonus then.
Again, Good luck with your up coming B/P hunt. Stay safe.

 

[Keg]

Good luck....Post some pics if U do any good....

Honestly I'm just happy to sit and watch my surrounding scenic view of some beautiful snow covered country this time of year. So beautiful, that it makes one feel insignificant. Perhaps warbirdlover you will benefit in the same way as I have. Harvesting a Deer is just bonus then.

Sounds good....

 

[LSnSC]

I hate you feel like you got cheated, but its doubtful there are 10 mature bucks are staying on a 120 acres, food plots or not. Once the bachelor groups break up you may have a handfull at best. Add in the rut and it all depends on how many does you have in heat at any given moment. Plus you said the food plots were gone. I dont know your property, but there may be no reason for a deer to be there now??? Six gun hunters on 120 acres, plus however many bowhunters and no food sounds like a recipe for a bad opener to me.

Regardless, if you KNOW your neighbors are breaking the law I would have the DNR investigate. If you are unsure, I would think hard about making enemies over a percieved injustice.

 

[L_Killkenny]

The inclusion in the question of ethical implications is bound to elicit some fairly strong responses.

Bingo. OP asked a question and then made a comment. The comment is the issue. Completely wrong and out of left field.

 

[warbirdlover]

LSnSC, I did not say all these bucks were on the land at the same time. I only said the bowhunters saw 10 "different" large bucks this fall.

 

[Keg]

Bingo. OP asked a question and then made a comment. The comment is the issue. Completely wrong and out of left field.

Yes..asked a question..then made a comment....Everything I said was true....
I know very little about Wisconsin....I was hoping to get educated on the type hunting there....In the past..East Texas here has had a bad reputation....Some areas the deer herd was completely wiped out..it has greatly improved now....Between game laws..management..and a conscious effort by landowners and sportmen....Maybe I should have phrased differently....I'm sorry if I offended anyone....