Want to run an Idea by you fellas

There's another thread about a 14 year old wanting to make money here:
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=550897

IMhO post #31 by machineguntony had the best advice.

That said, maybe going to some gun shows where you can show off your work would be the way to go...are there many gun shows you could attend? Might have to get your folks to help you but you'd have to do that anyway no matter what.
 
Blindstitch said:
There's probably a lot of things you aren't considering that you don't know of yet.

Payment, shipping, materials, bad customers, and many other things that we don't know till it happens.

What happens if UPS somehow smashes or snaps your stock in half on its way back to the customer?

What if I customer doesn't pay or doesn't like your work after it's done?

Just something to think of. There's also the age thing.
You would also have to require that your customers strip the action out and send you just the stock, since you need an FFL to accept complete firearms that will be subject to gunsmithing work (which includes refinishing). Most owners who are comfortable removing the action from the furniture are also probably comfortable doing the refinishing for themselves.

One of the guys who works in the gunshop at the range where I shoot does refinishing. I've seen many of the guns he has worked on while they're in the shop. I haven't yet seen a bare stock -- people drop off the complete firearm (generally older rifles or shotguns) and he removes the action there in the shop. The shop has an FFL so that's legal for them.
 
Where could I find old beat up stock to practice on?

Pawn shops and flea markets

Many guns also have checkering that would need to be considered as well in the refinishing; and yes, stripping old finishes, making the wood to metal fit correct afterwards, etc. will take a lot longer than what you seem to be currently budgeting
 
Mosin-Marauder said:
Also, another question. I read somewhere about putting all kinds of finish stripper and degreaser on it before removing the finish. I just sanded it off..? I also read about staining and stock waxing. I only stripped it, wiped it down , and applied the tru oil...Did I do this completely wrong?
If the stock is from a firearm with any historical or family sentimental value, the owner would probably be VERY unhappy if you sanded off the old finish. Sanding removes material, which can change the shape or profile. Only slightly, true, but that matters to some people. The only correct way to remove old finish is to use stripper.

Also, a lot of old guns have dings in the wood. You do NOT fix those by sanding down the surface around them, you fix them by steaming them out.
 
I don't mean to discourage you but there's generally two kinds of people who think they're "really good" at something. There's those who are true masters and there's those who don't know enough about it to know what good means. Most folks who really know a trade also know that they're NOT "really good" at it.

I commend your desire. If you want to do this, learn a lot about it and practice on all sorts of different finishes. To a certain extent, wood is wood. You don't have to practice on gun stocks. You can use old tables or other furniture or anything similar. You can get lumber, stain and finish it and practice removing and refinishing it. Of course, ultimately, wood is NOT all the same and you'll need a working understanding of how to treat the various kinds and not just kinds but ages.

Think about where you're at right now. You want to start a stock refinishing business and you don't know how to use a wood stripper. Yeah, you can and will learn but starting a business without a basic knowledge of the tools and procedures of the trade is the very definition of putting the cart before the horse.

You need to know what you're doing FIRST and THEN worry about if you can make a business of it.

I personally would not consider sending a stock out to someone who's business was based on them having done 2 or 3 or even 30 or 40 stock refinishing jobs. That's just a guy trying to learn at my expense.

I love your enthusiasm but enthusiasm doesn't make for a good business.
 
I'll take that as a sign I need to stop. Nevermind. Can't do anything right apparently. Shooting or refinishing. I'd appreciate it if a Mod could close this thread.
 
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That's not the point.

The point is that you need to learn the trade before you can do it for a living.

If you wanted a bunch of cheerleaders, you could have said so. We're trying to be realistic.

You can't make money doing something that you don't know how to do. Having done it 2 or 3 or 10 times is not "knowing how to do it".

You're getting the wisdom of many years of life beyond your own here. It's not for the sake of beating you down or discouraging you. It's for the sake of helping you get it right, the first time.

You only get one go-round on this earth. There are no do-overs.

If you want to start your stock refinishing business without even knowing how to refinish stocks, go for it but don't say you weren't given wise advice to the contrary.
 
I don't recall ever saying I'd make a living off of it. I want to be a gunsmith by I can make a living off of it. I've said before, I think I just might keep doing it as a hobby. I actually posted in this thread. Never wanted it to be any sort of business or career.
 
"Making a living" is a technicality.

You said you wanted to start a "stock refinishing service" and talked about shipping, materials and customers.

That's a business.

If you're going to charge people for it, you need to know how to do it.

A hobby is a completely different thing that does not involve customers.

I sincerely hope that you educate yourself on this type of work, get lots of practice and start redoing stocks for people. I really do. I also sincerely hope you realize that there's a lot more to it than doing a couple of stocks and being declared "really good at it" so you should start charging people for your work.
 
Brian is not trying to discourage you, he's encouraging you to further a skill you are learning. Maybe it will wind up being a side business, maybe just a hobby. But either way, learning to do it right from the ground up is the best path. Otherwise, you will find yourself taking shortcuts and possibly leaving you with unhappy customers.

Your idea of finishing/refinishing stocks is sparking my desire to get a new replacement stock for my 98 Mauser, and let you finish it for me.

I'm off to do some searching now. :)
 
I could try to keep learning. I really enjoy it. Earlier today I sanded one of my older stocks (the I've Johnson 2 piece stock for a shotgun) I won't be sanding off finish anymore. Only going to use stripping agents from now on. Can you guys recommend a good finish stripper?

Also, about the Iver Johnson Stock. I heard about steaming the stock to get the nicks and dings out. I took a pot of boiling water and coated the stock with it and let it sit out to dry (still drying. It looks like it took a lot of the drinks out. There is a small cracking plan to fix with epoxy and sawdust (read somewhere pitting epoxy mixed with sawdust and let dry can fix minor surface cracks). I also am going to get some cleaner/decrease to put on it before I finish and wax it. I really want to keep working at this stock refinishing stuff. I'd be happy to work on your stock, spacemanspiff.

Sorry for getting all mad, Brian. I get impatient alot.
 
Now you're getting into fixing stocks - you'll need to learn about all the good epoxys, using glass and brass rods for fixing cracks and of course, how to do checkering and repairing that as well

You have a LOT to learn just about the craft side of things; then there is the business side that Brian - as a small business owner - can really expound on

Keep the dream alive, pursue it, make it a goal - just realize you're not there yet. Folks who refinish/repair/build/create new stocks have years, sometimes decades, as apprentices just learning the craft side of the things. This craft is NOT a good place for someone who is impatient - example, applying Truoil or similar takes at least a day between coats, sometimes longer. My friend had his K-80 stock redone by folks in Montana - took them a few months to apply/sand/complete the 27 or so coats they applied to his stock - the wood alone was about $3500 as a blank so no room for an OOPS!

The supplies you typically use do NOT come from Lowe's or Ace Hardware
 
Mosin-Marauder said:
I'll take that as a sign I need to stop.
No, take it as a sign that you need to continue ... learning. Don't hang out here in the "General Discussion" area, hang out in the gunsmithing area. Find some forums dedicated to gunsmithing and read up on finishing/refinishing stocks.

It doesn't matter whether or not you're making a living wage from it. Once you start charging money, it's a business and not a hobby. Charging money for it makes it your profession, and your customers/clients are then entitled to professional workmanship and professional results.

I don't know where they came from, but when I was in high school the wood shop had a huge box full of unfinished rifle buttstocks. Anybody who wanted to make a lamp was allowed to grab one, make a nice base for it, and put the whole thing together. Poke around. Find yourself a copy of Shotgun News. There are a lot of vendors of replacement stocks in that publication. Contact them all, tell them what you're trying to do, and ask them if they have any rejects they could send you for the cost of shipping. That would give you some materials for practice.

Since you're interested in REfinishing, as has already been noted -- wood is wood. Hit some tag sales and buy a couple of ratty pieces of furniture to practice on. Just be sure you're getting pieces that are real wood, not particle board with a thin veneer of wood (or even plastic).

Most gunstocks, traditionally, were Walnut. (I think that's a safe generalization.) Some lower-end firearms had Maple stocks. Those two woods are different in color and they react differently to stains and varnishes and oils. Google some woodworkers supply places, and buy some samples of each to experiment with so you can learn what works and what doesn't work.

Then you should consider getting a couple of good books that are just photo collections of older firearms. Some stocks came from the factory with a matte finish, or even a "finish" that didn't look like much other than a touch of stain. Others were semi-gloss or even high gloss. To refinish a stock correctly, you should be able to replicate what the original finish was fairly closely. (Either that, or make it clear to the customers that you only offer one grade of finish, and it may not match what their firearm had originally.)

Mosin-Marauder said:
Also, about the Iver Johnson Stock. I heard about steaming the stock to get the nicks and dings out. I took a pot of boiling water and coated the stock with it and let it sit out to dry
The method I have always heard and read about is to take a small piece of cloth, wet it and lay it over the dent, then put the "nose" of a hot iron over it. Your mother might not appreciate your using her iron for that, but you can buy a cheap iron in a Wal-Mart or dollar store (or a tag sale) for not a whole lot of money and have your own, dedicated ding steamer, You DON'T want to wet large areas because that raises the grain, and it can also cause warping.

I have a friend who likes to makes wooden bowls on a lathe at home. For him this is a hobby -- he turns out a prodigious number of these things but he refuses to sell them -- he gives them away. (If they were sold in a store, they'd probably sell for fifty bucks or more, they are that nice.) The finish is like glass, and he accomplishes that by hand rubbing with boiled linseed oil. No Tung oil or prefabricated finishes, just boiled linseed oil. He rubs it in by hand, lets it sit for 24 or 48 hours, then repeats. Maybe six coats, maybe ten coats. It depends on the wood, he keeps going until the wood won't accept any more oil and the surface is uniformly glossy.

That's a very traditional method for finishing gunstocks. It would behoove you to learn it.
 
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I tried the ironing method about 6 times it raised the dings a little, they're not completely gone though. I'm probably going to apply the finish tonight and wax after 3 or 4 coats.
 
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MOSIN-

What Brian said is the truth. I think we all want to see you succeed.
Owning and operating any business is not an easy undertaking. Only the best survive, so, if you want to start a small business, be good, be honest and strive to be the best. Success is earned, it takes time. Build a profile of work and distribute it. Continue to learn and do not take criticism as a negative. Take the criticism as a learning experience. Any skill you develop will only help you through life. If refinishing wood interests you, pursue it. You could expand this skill far beyond just gun stocks.
Running a business no matter how small is not as much fun as you may believe, there are rewards, but there is also a ton of work involved.
Don't be discouraged, be open to those of us who offer knowledge... we've been where you are.
 
Brownells has published a huge library of short videos on how to use many of their products. They have a series of books called 'Gunsmith Kinks' or something similar. Youtube is full of good and bad information. Your local/regional woodcraft probably has a class on refinishing furniture that would be informative.

http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-t...ith-kinks-books/gunsmith-kinks--prod1688.aspx

Raw lumber will be a few bucks for a piece with a surface area similar to that of a stock on craigslist. Even a take-off 10-22 stock will run you about $50.

Refinish anything for family members. Furniture, floors, etc etc.

Careful with the fumes.
 
Please keep in mind I'm still trying to see if this is something I want to do for a long time ( not as a living, going to be a machinist and fabricator for that). If I find I don't like it as much as I think, I might drop it.
 
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