Want a pump 12, but which one?

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More importantly, what d'you think about my question: why *do* Yanks buy new foreign instead of second-hand American? I have a number of old(ish) American pump-action shotguns - including three M37s - and I have to say that I *prefer* old guns.
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You'll find most folks here are driven first and foremost by price and only price - everything else seems to come second. I prefer quality over quantity and would rather have a few guns of exceptional quality than a safe of mediocre crap - but that is JMO....

Others have a differing view
 
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I've used most of 'em and to me it comes down to preference -- where you like the safety, how it feels to you, etc....

I keep going back to the Mossberg 500. But I really like my pal's BPS too, and the 870 and the Ithaca are nice too. You can't really go wrong. Just take the time to handle the one you are going to buy.
 
The perfect repeater

There are 1000's of Winchester model 12's languishing on gun store shelves. Other than collectible guns, field models can be had for less than 300.00

If it has a Dial a Duck on it they go for 250.00 or less. Just the solid block of steel billet that the Model 12's receiver is milled from would cost hundreds today.

Want interchangeable chokes...the aforementioned Dial A Duck does the trick, and your shotgun will cost you less.

You won't find a better built pump, parts are available......after all Winchester made over two million of them.
 
For what it's worth, the Maverick 88 is a $200 steal at WalMart, and accepts all Mossberg 500 accessories, barrels and stocks except for those involving the trigger group. Very popular, cheap but reliable, shotgun.

More important than make and model is how they fit you and work for you in their intended use. Look at as many as you can, decide what features you need/want and then start looking at specific models and manufacturers. If you can, rent or borrow some to test.

Jeff
 
I own both a 870 (wingmaster) and a BPS (synthetic marsh grass). I love my 870 and cant find a bad thing to say about it. But the BPS is better. Your a lefty and the BPS ejects from the bottom. BPS is a little heavy and its a thumper with heavy loads. But any pump is going to recoil heavy.
 
"You'll find most folks here are driven first and foremost by price and only price - everything else seems to come second. I prefer quality over quantity and would rather have a few guns of exceptional quality than a safe of mediocre crap - but that is JMO....

Others have a differing view "

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BigDinFL:

You are absolutely right! Cost over quality is a huge problem. People compain about the finish on the Remington 870 Express. But to compete with low cost imports, I'm sure they felt they had to produce something less expensively. Now that Mossberg is "sourcing some parts" in Mexico, it puts even more pressure on domestic company(ies) to reduce price. The only way to compete at that level. As long as Americans flock to cheaply made guns (most imported) to save $50, this will happen. Not only in shotguns but rifles too.
 
"Mavericks are made in TX from some Mexico-sourced parts; however MOSSBERGs are made in New Haven CT"

BigDinFL:

This is NOT true. Mavericks are made in Mexico and assembled in Texas. But so are all of the Mossbergs, but under the Maverick name. Look at the latest ATF data showing 2011 production. The link is still floating around this thread.

Mossberg made ZERO shotguns in Connecticut in 2011. They assembled 423,570 shotguns in Texas in 2011.

I promise, I'm not trying to be combative. But I am all about American companies making their products in America. I get foreign companies like Benelli, Beretta, etc selling here. It's when American companies ditch their own workers to make them cheap out of the country and then come back and sell them to us. And we flock to them to save literally $50. Its disturbing.

You are absolutely right though. There are few options. Remington still does make great products. But the ones people have issues with, are the ones they make to compete with guns made in Mexico.
 
I completely understand the outsourcing argument and agree for the most part however when I was looking at shotguns I found what I wanted in the Turkish Winchester. I was willing to pay a $100 extra or so but I just really, really liked the SXP so that is what I bought. It just so happened to be on sale which was a bonus but I was going to buy it regardless of the price. Well, within reason anyways. Let my gunsmith/marine buddy shoot it and he really liked it too. "That's a REALLY nice shotgun!" It's really a work of art, absolutely beautiful inside and out. The fit, finish and quality is excellent. The fact that it's Turkish and under $400 is a bit hard to wrap your head around. Would have paid a bit more if made in the US but wouldn't change a thing about the shotgun itself except maybe if it took more shells in the tube. Somewhere around 50 would be good.:D Oh and as far as speed goes, I'm no competitive shooter but I rattled off about 6 shots in about 4 seconds the other day so yeah, I'd say its pretty fast.

Anyways, LET US KNOW WHICH SHOTGUN YOU DECIDE ON!!!!!!
 
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Pre-1964 Winchester Model 12s are great. I own two of them, both from the mid 1950s plus a recent 870 Wngmaster. I still pfer the Model 12s because they are what I grew up shooting and they ae built like tanks. As a left handed shooter, a used Model 12 may not work as I am not aware they ever made a left handed model and spitting hulls in you face is just not fun. I am right handed but left eyed and never mastered the mechanics of left handed shooting. My dad had an Ithaca 37 that had bottom dischrge good for left handers and keeping rain out of the receiver. Try several models from others before you buy and get somthing that fits well and is reliable.
 
Ithaca 37. First and only shotgun I've owned. Buy not the only I've shot. I've shot the 870 and 500, but I prefer the 37. Maybe because my TV hero Jim Reed and Malloy used it... I dunno. Either way my votes for the Ithaca 37.
 
There are 1000's of Winchester model 12's languishing on gun store shelves. Other than collectible guns, field models can be had for less than 300.00
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Not around here - $400 and up for beaters - but these are pawn shops

Look at the latest ATF data showing 2011 production. The link is still floating around this thread.
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I'd like to see that data - post a link if you can

Mossberg made ZERO shotguns in Connecticut in 2011. They assembled 423,570 shotguns in Texas in 2011.
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It was my understanding that the barrels for Mavericks were made in Mexico and those guns were assembled in Eagle's Pass, TX but that the others (not imported from Turkey) were made in CT

I have had one for over 20 years and it was made in North Haven.
If it says "Made in the USA", or similar, then it is made here - maybe from imported parts, but no different than US cars - Chryslers make more in Mexico and Canada, where the Jap ones are mostly made here.

As previously mentioned, when price is the only consideration, and folks buy the Chinese/Russian/Turkish/Brazilian cheap imports, our folks will respond with the likes of the Express and Maverick
 
I was looking at the Mossberg web site yesterday and would like to know what the difference is between the Maverick and the M500?
 
Just the solid block of steel billet that the Model 12's receiver is milled from would cost hundreds today.
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If receivers made of steel are important to you, the Remington Model 870, the Browning BPS and the Ithaca Model 37 are three shotguns that I'm aware of that are still constructed with steel receivers.

With its tang-mounted safety and bottom ejection, it would seem that the Browning BPS would be just about ideal for a southpaw's shotgun. I like mine a lot-even if I am a northpaw. :)
 
I've had an 870 Express, a Browning BPS, a Winchester 1300, and a Mossberg 500.

I still have the 500. It's all the gun I ever need.
 
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