Walther P99-the best?
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Today, as per Mr. Kurt Hindla of Walther-USA and coming from Mr. Karl-Heinz Luther, VP of sales for Carl Walther GmbH in Arnsberg, Germany, "in no uncertain terms that there is not a Pre-Crime bill legal 15 or 16 round magazine for the P99. Walther GmbH I am told did not ship any unmarked hi capacity tubes into the United States, and Walther USA did not import any unmarked hi capacity tubes into the country".
There is more to it but this is the important point.
I don't know what else can be said of this to make them legal.
I find this part interesting.
And if Walther/Mec-Gar made any magazines before '94, then they would be legal to import. For all I know Earl's shopped all over Europe and picked up all the pre-'94 magazines he could find and imported them.
Walther-USA did not import any, OK, who cares what Walther-USA imported. They and Earl's are the official Walther firearms importers. BUT anyone who wants to, can fill out the paperwork to import magazines.
So the question that needs to be asked in order to settle the whole debate, is did Walther/Mec-Gar manufacture any pre-'94 magazines.
If they did, then any unmarked magazine COULD be pre-'94, hence legal (or at least couldn't be proven illegal).
If Walther/Mec-Gar did NOT manufacture any pre-'94 magazines, then ALL the magazines in the US are illegal, and could be easily proven illegal.
So, if you really want to know the legality of Walther P99 hi-cap magazines, you've got to ask the right questions, and you've got to ask the right people.
I'd ask Mec-Gar, or Walther/Germany, if any magazines were manufactured pre-'94.
It does not matter WHO shipped the magazines into the US, as long as they were manufactured before the '94 crime bill.
And if Walther/Mec-Gar made any magazines before '94, then they would be legal to import. For all I know Earl's shopped all over Europe and picked up all the pre-'94 magazines he could find and imported them.
Walther-USA did not import any, OK, who cares what Walther-USA imported. They and Earl's are the official Walther firearms importers. BUT anyone who wants to, can fill out the paperwork to import magazines.
So the question that needs to be asked in order to settle the whole debate, is did Walther/Mec-Gar manufacture any pre-'94 magazines.
If they did, then any unmarked magazine COULD be pre-'94, hence legal (or at least couldn't be proven illegal).
If Walther/Mec-Gar did NOT manufacture any pre-'94 magazines, then ALL the magazines in the US are illegal, and could be easily proven illegal.
So, if you really want to know the legality of Walther P99 hi-cap magazines, you've got to ask the right questions, and you've got to ask the right people.
I'd ask Mec-Gar, or Walther/Germany, if any magazines were manufactured pre-'94.
It's a nice 9mm. But many of our local shooters have traded them away for lack of afforbable hi caps and parts.
And accessories and holstes aren't as easy to find as I'd like to see them.
Nice but no thanks.
I can get a Glock 21 and shoot 45 ACP and 40Super out of that bad boy.
Or a Glock 20 for example, you get all of the benefits discussed, and you can shoot 40SW and 357 sig out of it too.
Or an EAA witness with factory conversion kits.
NAs Walther has priced them, they aren't doing too well against the Glocks, HK USPs, or even the Sigs.
Just look at the range and see what people are shooting. Last time I saw a P99 or an SW99 was a year ago. When some federal or local LEAs start packin P-99s/SW99s, I'll take notice.
And best 9mm, not that gun. Most argue that the HKP7 or the Sig P210 are the best ever 9mm's although I have yet to see someone packin a P210 concealed.
You like it, shoot it. But the P7 is king of the 9mm world!
And accessories and holstes aren't as easy to find as I'd like to see them.
Nice but no thanks.
I can get a Glock 21 and shoot 45 ACP and 40Super out of that bad boy.
Or a Glock 20 for example, you get all of the benefits discussed, and you can shoot 40SW and 357 sig out of it too.
Or an EAA witness with factory conversion kits.
NAs Walther has priced them, they aren't doing too well against the Glocks, HK USPs, or even the Sigs.
Just look at the range and see what people are shooting. Last time I saw a P99 or an SW99 was a year ago. When some federal or local LEAs start packin P-99s/SW99s, I'll take notice.
And best 9mm, not that gun. Most argue that the HKP7 or the Sig P210 are the best ever 9mm's although I have yet to see someone packin a P210 concealed.
You like it, shoot it. But the P7 is king of the 9mm world!
It's a nice 9mm. But many of our local shooters have traded them away for lack of afforbable hi caps and parts.
And accessories and holstes aren't as easy to find as I'd like to see them.
Nice but no thanks.
I can get a Glock 21 and shoot 45 ACP and 40Super out of that bad boy.
Or a Glock 20 for example, you get all of the benefits discussed, and you can shoot 40SW and 357 sig out of it too.
Or an EAA witness with factory conversion kits.
As Walther has priced them, they aren't doing too well against the Glocks, HK USPs, or even the Sigs.
Just look at the range and see what people are shooting. Last time I saw a P99 or an SW99 was a year ago.
And best 9mm, not that gun. Most argue that the HKP7 or the Sig P210 are the best ever 9mm's although I have yet to see someone packin a P210 concealed.
you like it, shoot it. But the P7 is king of the 9mm world!
And accessories and holstes aren't as easy to find as I'd like to see them.
Nice but no thanks.
I can get a Glock 21 and shoot 45 ACP and 40Super out of that bad boy.
Or a Glock 20 for example, you get all of the benefits discussed, and you can shoot 40SW and 357 sig out of it too.
Or an EAA witness with factory conversion kits.
As Walther has priced them, they aren't doing too well against the Glocks, HK USPs, or even the Sigs.
Just look at the range and see what people are shooting. Last time I saw a P99 or an SW99 was a year ago.
And best 9mm, not that gun. Most argue that the HKP7 or the Sig P210 are the best ever 9mm's although I have yet to see someone packin a P210 concealed.
you like it, shoot it. But the P7 is king of the 9mm world!
Around here the P99 is cheaper than both Sig and H&K, and only $75 more than Glocks.
The last time I saw a P210 was.....never.
The last time I saw a P7 was......at least 2 years ago.
And I have yet to see a P7 shooter, shoot more than a few magazines rapid-fire before the pistol got so hot that you had to set it down. Try shooting a tactical class, say, 1500 rounds in a weekend, without cleaning your P7. The P7 is one of the best, but it has its problems and quirks as well.
That is why these "BEST" debates are so much fun, because NO pistol is the best at everything.
What a love fest for the P99, but I'm a bit confused. Last time I checked on the P99, seems everyone who had any experience with one was complaining about feed problems, high bore axis (excess muzzle flip), and that the things were being made by S&W.
Has so much changed recently with this pistol that it is now seriously being considered one of the best 9mm's?
Has so much changed recently with this pistol that it is now seriously being considered one of the best 9mm's?
No problem, it can get confusing around here
A) Feed problems were 99% with the .40S&W and were fixed early on with magazine springs by Walther. The 9mm problems were traced to wimpy ammo (WINUSA) and some guns required a different recoil spring. As I've said here many times and others have too, my 9mm P99s have NEVER had any problems. So "everyone" was not complaining, only those few who experienced the problems. Same as any problem, you only hear from those that it affect.
B) Yes, it has a relatively high bore axis compared to the P7M8 and Steyr M/S series, but I don't think it is "excessive". Certainly no more muzzle flip than a Sig, Glock or Beretta.
C) The Walther P99 9mm has NEVER been "made" by S&W. There were about 3000 .40S&W Slides manufactured in the Springfield, MA S&W facilities that were mated to German P99 .40 frames and sold as "German" Walther P99s. Knowledgeable people figured it out, and unfortunately, it has given Walther a black eye. But they are easily recognized and some have said they worked just fine. NEVER any 9mms, and you can avoid the .40 S&W made ones if you want.
In conclusion, the 9mm Walther P99 is arguably one of the best production 9mm pistols on the market, I prefer it second to my P7M8. It is highly accurate, easily concealed, well made and very cool looking. For those that don't like the SA/DA trigger (incidentally, the ONLY striker fired, SA/DA pistol on the market AND with second strike capability, should you have a FTF), there is the new P99QA with a "Glock/Steyr" like trigger. The .40S&W version should have all of the bugs worked out by now, as evidenced by the Gun Tests re-review of it a year later after their initial sample had reliability problems.
Regards,
James
NMGlocker:
You're right. Even great guns have bugs that need to be worked out.
I think BHPs are awesome guns for HD or training. and they can be customized like 1911s too. Just don't fit my hand well.
And the P7s are not a good choices for those tactical classes. I'd only use my Glocks for those with at least 6-10 10-round mags filled to the brim for starters.
The P7s do get hot if you shoot them fast. That's what shooting gloves are for!
The P7 is best used for CCW and defensive applications.
As for avilablility, I know of three P210s under glass and four P7M8s around Seattle for sale. Seattle has a huge gun market with regular gunshows with lots of good deals on guns and hi caps. I'm blessed to live here.
I just want to make sure when people say the BEST, that a good 75 percent of us will agree. otherwise, it's an opinion. That's all.
You're right. Even great guns have bugs that need to be worked out.
I think BHPs are awesome guns for HD or training. and they can be customized like 1911s too. Just don't fit my hand well.
And the P7s are not a good choices for those tactical classes. I'd only use my Glocks for those with at least 6-10 10-round mags filled to the brim for starters.
The P7s do get hot if you shoot them fast. That's what shooting gloves are for!
The P7 is best used for CCW and defensive applications.
As for avilablility, I know of three P210s under glass and four P7M8s around Seattle for sale. Seattle has a huge gun market with regular gunshows with lots of good deals on guns and hi caps. I'm blessed to live here.
I just want to make sure when people say the BEST, that a good 75 percent of us will agree. otherwise, it's an opinion. That's all.
The gentleman who said no is, Mr. Karl-Heinz Luther, VP of sales for Carl Walther GmbH in Arnsberg, Germany. That IS Walther/Germany.
He said that there are NO LEGAL pre crime bill 15 or 16 round magazines. None were made for the P99 before the 9.13.94 date.
It is believed that the magazines available are European mfg. brought into the US illegally.
Don't misunderstand me, I would love to get 2 or 3 16 round magazines for my 9mmx19 P99 but as a retired LEO I have a real problem buying something that I reasonably believe to be illegal.
Extremist: As a born cynic, I appreciate, and understand, your skepticism. But in this case, I feel you're relying on early reports and old information.
As we all know, when any new product hits the street, it has an upward climb toward product acceptance, since it's the 'new kid on the block', and hasn't 'proven itself'. Guns are no different, but in our case, that climb is much steeper. We gun owners are SIGNIFICANTLY more conservative, and slow to accept new models and designs, because of the critical nature of what a gun means to us in terms of life saving equipment.
So, when you read something about a new gun, bear in mind that part of the bellyaching can be dismissed as resistance in being accepted that takes the form of leaping to conclusions, part of it can be attributed to problems that are not gun-specific (ammo, user error), and the fact that human nature is such that we tend to complain louder than we commend.
That said, my 9mm P99 is about 3 months old, I have 2000 rounds through it, and it hasn't had a hissy-fit yet. Totally reliable, and a gun that I'd stake my life on.
jtduncan: Your point is well taken, but I wonder if 75% of the people here expressing opinions actually OWN a P99.
If not, those 'opinions' can be discounted. I think you raise a great point. A better test would be to poll the owners of P99's out there to see how many of us would buy the gun again. Then poll only those who own other similar guns (polymer frame guns, preferably striker fired, like Glock) to see which 9mm or .40cal they'd prefer, if it were given to them to take cost out of the equation.
As we all know, when any new product hits the street, it has an upward climb toward product acceptance, since it's the 'new kid on the block', and hasn't 'proven itself'. Guns are no different, but in our case, that climb is much steeper. We gun owners are SIGNIFICANTLY more conservative, and slow to accept new models and designs, because of the critical nature of what a gun means to us in terms of life saving equipment.
So, when you read something about a new gun, bear in mind that part of the bellyaching can be dismissed as resistance in being accepted that takes the form of leaping to conclusions, part of it can be attributed to problems that are not gun-specific (ammo, user error), and the fact that human nature is such that we tend to complain louder than we commend.
That said, my 9mm P99 is about 3 months old, I have 2000 rounds through it, and it hasn't had a hissy-fit yet. Totally reliable, and a gun that I'd stake my life on.
jtduncan: Your point is well taken, but I wonder if 75% of the people here expressing opinions actually OWN a P99.
If not, those 'opinions' can be discounted. I think you raise a great point. A better test would be to poll the owners of P99's out there to see how many of us would buy the gun again. Then poll only those who own other similar guns (polymer frame guns, preferably striker fired, like Glock) to see which 9mm or .40cal they'd prefer, if it were given to them to take cost out of the equation.
Rovert: Your response:
Extremist: As a born cynic, I appreciate, and understand, your skepticism. But in this case, I feel you're relying on early reports and old information.
I think you meant this for MRW, I was disagreeing with him, re-read my post. I was quoting him and responding to HIS skepticism based on early reports and old information.
James
Extremist: As a born cynic, I appreciate, and understand, your skepticism. But in this case, I feel you're relying on early reports and old information.
I think you meant this for MRW, I was disagreeing with him, re-read my post. I was quoting him and responding to HIS skepticism based on early reports and old information.
James
d'OH!
Extremist, my goof. Yes, you're right. It was intended for MRW.
Wishbone, you're right. It does very much depend on what you've shot. One needs to compare apples with apples. It also very much depends on what the individual likes. Of all the 'tupperware' guns out there, I find the P99 is nicer than any other out there. I've shot just about every major maker out there. If you're asking me if I'd trade my Kimber for a P99, I wouldn't give up either. If you're asking me if I'd want a Glock, instead of the P99, not on a bet. (all due respect to the Glockers... no slight intended, no flames, please) Do you not like the P99 because you don't like polymer pistols, or is there another reason?
Extremist, my goof. Yes, you're right. It was intended for MRW.
Wishbone, you're right. It does very much depend on what you've shot. One needs to compare apples with apples. It also very much depends on what the individual likes. Of all the 'tupperware' guns out there, I find the P99 is nicer than any other out there. I've shot just about every major maker out there. If you're asking me if I'd trade my Kimber for a P99, I wouldn't give up either. If you're asking me if I'd want a Glock, instead of the P99, not on a bet. (all due respect to the Glockers... no slight intended, no flames, please) Do you not like the P99 because you don't like polymer pistols, or is there another reason?
JMC:
Jim, this is the last time I'll beat this dead horse. Email Earl Sheehan at WaltherUSA.net and ask him. I believe he's been involved in Walther's longer than Mr. Luther.
If you don't trust the other sellers of P99 16 round (never any 15 rounders from Walther/MecGar), then buy them from Earl. His are legit.
Regards,
James
Jim, this is the last time I'll beat this dead horse. Email Earl Sheehan at WaltherUSA.net and ask him. I believe he's been involved in Walther's longer than Mr. Luther.
If you don't trust the other sellers of P99 16 round (never any 15 rounders from Walther/MecGar), then buy them from Earl. His are legit.
Regards,
James
Extremist,
I don't think this is beating a dead horse. I think it is a very interesting, exchange of information about a topic that is important to us P99 owners.
I may be new to the P99 but I'm not new to the world of fine handguns. I guess it's the 25 years in LE that makes me want to know more and requires the correct facts.
You insist on referring to Earl's as the authority and I agree, from what I have found, he is quite an authority on the Walther line of pistols. Kurt Hindle from Walther-USA also agrees on this. Earl's is a distributor of Walther-USA. According to Mr. Hindle, Earl's gets his P99's from them.
I have purchased 4 10 round magazines from Earl. His service to quick and exact. When asked technical questions, he has the answers for sure.
The amount of time involved in Walthers as you put it is not the standard. Correct information is the standard.
I know cops that have been at it for 25 years and still can't give you a correct statute w/o looking in a book.
However, I put more stock in what a VP of sales for Carl Walther in Germany has to say in regard to what is correct and legal in the US.