I'll add another voice to the "don't purse carry" chorus. Your gun should be on your person. There are various reasons for this, most of which have already been mentioned, except for the accessibility argument. In a self-defense situation it may be very difficult to get to a purse. She will also have to get a carry purse, an everyday purse simply will not work.
Wally world-what would you have done.
- Thread starter geetarman
- Start date
Old cop here. Whenever you have two+ antagonists who are wolf-circling you and blocking routes of escape, and you are carrying a weapon, you had better be getting your hand on that weapon.
Sure, get a phone in your weak hand if you can- but that particular setup is often the last thing a victim sees- and it's time to drive the OODA cycle like a dragster.
Sure, get a phone in your weak hand if you can- but that particular setup is often the last thing a victim sees- and it's time to drive the OODA cycle like a dragster.
Sarge,
Good advice. I really think she did a good job of being aware. I also think she reacted correctly by eyeballing one and going for the phone.
Inside the store, under those circumstances, even if she had a weapon, I am not sure what would have been proper. Certainly making sure the weapon was ready. I don't think she would have been legal displaying a weapon given the three men had not spoken to her.
A more likely scenario, in my view, would have been them following her out onto the parking lot and robbing her or carjacking her wheels.
Given what she told me, I think she acted correctly. I also think she will be changing her routine.
For me, I don't routinely carry. I think I need to revisit that. Believe it or not, a lifetime of not carrying is bearing considerable weight to my decision not to routinely carry.
I know that it only takes one incident to put me six feet under when prior planning could have prevented it.
I have to work through that.
Geetarman
Good advice. I really think she did a good job of being aware. I also think she reacted correctly by eyeballing one and going for the phone.
Inside the store, under those circumstances, even if she had a weapon, I am not sure what would have been proper. Certainly making sure the weapon was ready. I don't think she would have been legal displaying a weapon given the three men had not spoken to her.
A more likely scenario, in my view, would have been them following her out onto the parking lot and robbing her or carjacking her wheels.
Given what she told me, I think she acted correctly. I also think she will be changing her routine.
For me, I don't routinely carry. I think I need to revisit that. Believe it or not, a lifetime of not carrying is bearing considerable weight to my decision not to routinely carry.
I know that it only takes one incident to put me six feet under when prior planning could have prevented it.
I have to work through that.
Geetarman
Purse only if it has a separate holster space for her gun and only if it is an over the shoulder strap so it can't be yanked away from her. A pistol purse allows her to reach her gun without getting tangled up in all the detritus that gathers in a person and can interfere with getting it and using it. More better to make a change to her wardrobe and carry on her person.
http://glockstore.com/index/10/
http://www.securityprousa.com/guncolepr.html
http://glockstore.com/index/10/
http://www.securityprousa.com/guncolepr.html
Good question. I do not know the answer. Perhaps the young men took off while she was talking to the officer. I don't know how legal it would be to question the three if they had not said anything to my daughter.
I do not recall my daughter saying anything other than she saw them at the front of the store about the same time she saw the black and white.
I don't know if she saw them again after she started talking to the officer.
It is kind of weird that all these "what ifs" come up after the event is over.
I suspect you go into mental overdrive and you cannot think of all the possible things you could or should have said or done.
I am glad she is ok and she is able to make enough changes so it does not occur again.
Geetarman
She did very well, she kept her wits and made a couple of very very good choices in the attempt to re-route then made contact with cashier and LE outside.
It may a different policy at different wal-marts I witnessed a manager at a local wal-mart several years ago, ask a female Missouri State Highway Patrol officer, IN UNIFORM to please leave because they had a no weapons policy. Talk about stupid, they should have offered free coffee just for walking into the store in uniform.
As for your daughter, a non leathal option might be nice, OC or ASP if handy with one an ASP is a wicked weapon. Doubtful any judge in AZ would fault a woman for defending herself agains 3 "men". But in todays world you never know, appears her best weapon is one she is quite good with, her brain.
It may a different policy at different wal-marts I witnessed a manager at a local wal-mart several years ago, ask a female Missouri State Highway Patrol officer, IN UNIFORM to please leave because they had a no weapons policy. Talk about stupid, they should have offered free coffee just for walking into the store in uniform.
As for your daughter, a non leathal option might be nice, OC or ASP if handy with one an ASP is a wicked weapon. Doubtful any judge in AZ would fault a woman for defending herself agains 3 "men". But in todays world you never know, appears her best weapon is one she is quite good with, her brain.
motorhead0922
New member
I think she should have made a big scene when she was blocked the first time. Say in a very loud voice "why are you harassing me?" Call attention to this criminal behavior.
Kathy Jackson writes very well about this problem we all have about not wanting to call attention to ourselves:
http://www.corneredcat.com/Dying_of_Embarrassment/
And I too can't believe the cops didn't check out the hoods. Maybe they didn't want to be embarrassed.
Kathy Jackson writes very well about this problem we all have about not wanting to call attention to ourselves:
http://www.corneredcat.com/Dying_of_Embarrassment/
And I too can't believe the cops didn't check out the hoods. Maybe they didn't want to be embarrassed.
It sounds like she handled things as close to perfectly as she could have, with the possible exception of raising her voice to draw attention. I say 'possible', because that sort of thing may have triggered an immediate "escalate and go" from the 3 guys.
Purse carry... no. I think she would probably find some variation of IWB carry to be far more comfortable than she realizes. Check out YouTube videos from faliaphotography or limalife. Both ladies, with lots of great advice for female CCW. Lima is TINY, too. If she can pull it off, anyone can.
I'm glad that the situation turned out the way that it did.
Purse carry... no. I think she would probably find some variation of IWB carry to be far more comfortable than she realizes. Check out YouTube videos from faliaphotography or limalife. Both ladies, with lots of great advice for female CCW. Lima is TINY, too. If she can pull it off, anyone can.
I'm glad that the situation turned out the way that it did.
Your daughter sounds like a smart lady and has the presence to be aware of her surrounding and who is around her. The only thing that concerns me is that he wasn't carrying because she didn't feel a need. She should carry everyday as a routine no matter if she feels a need or not. The gun at home does you no good when you are not at home. She could have been beaten, robbed, raped or killed. Please convince her to carry all the time, it could be the best thing she ever does.
Personally I carry every time I leave the house, even if just for a short trip to the store. Times are tough, jobs are few, money is tight and people are getting desperate, even other wise good people just trying to feed their families and keep their homes. Carrying doesn't mean you will have to kill someone, but atleast be prepared to defend your self, your family and your home.
Personally I carry every time I leave the house, even if just for a short trip to the store. Times are tough, jobs are few, money is tight and people are getting desperate, even other wise good people just trying to feed their families and keep their homes. Carrying doesn't mean you will have to kill someone, but atleast be prepared to defend your self, your family and your home.
Since she didn't have a gun with her, there's no point is what-if'ing that part. Same with choosing that location. Those decisions were already in play, so let's go to the actual incident:
I don't know that she could have done any better. She is a case-study in what to do right in that situation. She didn't go into denial mode and she took action.
She was not victimized and learned from the process. Good on her.
I don't know that she could have done any better. She is a case-study in what to do right in that situation. She didn't go into denial mode and she took action.
She was not victimized and learned from the process. Good on her.
Doc Intrepid
New member
First, we don't really know whether the cop acted on her complaint and questioned the bad guys or not. It would have occurred after she left. Maybe the cop questioned them, maybe not.
But second, no crime occurred. So its tough to suggest that the cop should have done anything when all the cop had was a basic description of three creeps and an account that suggested something MIGHT have gone down otherwise.
But nothing the cop could really pin on them.
Bottom line: she should carry where its legal to do so.
There is no good reason not to.
There are plenty of reasons out in the world why she should.
But second, no crime occurred. So its tough to suggest that the cop should have done anything when all the cop had was a basic description of three creeps and an account that suggested something MIGHT have gone down otherwise.
But nothing the cop could really pin on them.
Bottom line: she should carry where its legal to do so.
There is no good reason not to.
There are plenty of reasons out in the world why she should.
I've met some dumb criminals, and there are even dumber ones out there - after all there was that one who walked by a parked police car, stepped around the uniformed cop waiting in line and tried to rob the store. But 3 people robing somebody with the po-po there is highly unlikely.
We've had recently some snatch-and-grab robberies in our area - 2 BGs would approach the victim from behind and snatch her golden chain and then run away. Maybe that was the case.
We've had recently some snatch-and-grab robberies in our area - 2 BGs would approach the victim from behind and snatch her golden chain and then run away. Maybe that was the case.
Sheriff Gotcha
New member
Don't know if it's been stated; Wal-Marts policy on carrying guns into the store, at least in Pennsylvania, is that they comply with the state laws.
That has been made known through various phone calls to the corporation. They will not send it in text form though, as to keep it an open ended thing they can change at any moment.
Here's a link to an encounter a forum member had with Wal-Mart:
"Confronted at Walmart by security and asst manager"
*Read post on Page 4- Post #36 by Delerius.
Here's another link to another encounter at Wal-Mart:
"Kicked out of Wal*Mart Parkesburg (Chester County) for Open Carry"
*Read post on Page 4- Post #35 by iMoses14
*Read post on Page 6- Post #51 by iMoses14
*Read post on Page 7- Post #67 by iMoses14
That has been made known through various phone calls to the corporation. They will not send it in text form though, as to keep it an open ended thing they can change at any moment.
Here's a link to an encounter a forum member had with Wal-Mart:
"Confronted at Walmart by security and asst manager"
*Read post on Page 4- Post #36 by Delerius.
Here's another link to another encounter at Wal-Mart:
"Kicked out of Wal*Mart Parkesburg (Chester County) for Open Carry"
*Read post on Page 4- Post #35 by iMoses14
*Read post on Page 6- Post #51 by iMoses14
*Read post on Page 7- Post #67 by iMoses14
Just in response to a previous comment about whether or not she knew the guys were up to no good.
It is a fact that most violent crime happens in "like circumstances". Men are more likely to attack other men. Blacks are more likely to attack other blacks. The media and Hollywood paint a different picture, but women are not the likeliest victims in a crime. Women, however, perceive themselves as being a likelier victim of a crime then most men.
That said, they are often viewed as easier victims by criminals, but as targets of opportunity they can be difficult to find. Thanks to our modern society, most women are aware enough not to put themselves in a position where they are easily victimized, thus helping to keep the statistic low.
You would think public places would be safe, but that is no guarantee.
If any woman I knew had shared this story with me, I would have praised their actions even though I have no idea if the men involved actually had malicious intent. When people act in a suspiscious manner, it is best to err on the side of caution.
Three men trying to corner a woman does not strike me as innocent behavior. At the VERY least, it is a form of harassment. Who knows, maybe they thought it would be fun to make her nervous and had no intentions outside of that. Even if that was their intent, it is not civilized behavior. Terrifying someone for fun should not be acceptable. From the most innocent of their intentions, it goes downhill from there.
There is no reason to wait until you are the victim of a violent crime before you take steps to protect yourself. If she had offended three guys too dense to realize their actions could be perceived as intimidating, well that's their own damn fault. Not hers.
It is a fact that most violent crime happens in "like circumstances". Men are more likely to attack other men. Blacks are more likely to attack other blacks. The media and Hollywood paint a different picture, but women are not the likeliest victims in a crime. Women, however, perceive themselves as being a likelier victim of a crime then most men.
That said, they are often viewed as easier victims by criminals, but as targets of opportunity they can be difficult to find. Thanks to our modern society, most women are aware enough not to put themselves in a position where they are easily victimized, thus helping to keep the statistic low.
You would think public places would be safe, but that is no guarantee.
If any woman I knew had shared this story with me, I would have praised their actions even though I have no idea if the men involved actually had malicious intent. When people act in a suspiscious manner, it is best to err on the side of caution.
Three men trying to corner a woman does not strike me as innocent behavior. At the VERY least, it is a form of harassment. Who knows, maybe they thought it would be fun to make her nervous and had no intentions outside of that. Even if that was their intent, it is not civilized behavior. Terrifying someone for fun should not be acceptable. From the most innocent of their intentions, it goes downhill from there.
There is no reason to wait until you are the victim of a violent crime before you take steps to protect yourself. If she had offended three guys too dense to realize their actions could be perceived as intimidating, well that's their own damn fault. Not hers.