Wallet holsters illegal???

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Onslaught

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I have heard conflicting reports about certain deep concealment rigs and their legality.

My father has a GREAT little Galco wallet holster for his High Standard .22 magnum derringer. It has a finger hole so it can be fired while in the holster.

While inquiring about them for NAA Guardians, (need new pocket pistol) I have been told by several gunshop folks that they are illegal to use. I can't seem to find them anywhere, so I'm almost ready to believe it.

A couple of these guys went so far as to say that even POCKET holsters were now FEDERALLY illegal, although I strongly doubt it, considering that pocket holsters are everywhere.

Any thoughts? BS or factoid?

Thanks for the help!
 
No - they are not illegal.

BUT - they are considered NFA weapons if they can be fired through the wallet. As NFA, to own it requires you to have all the right paperwork and tax stamps... just like FA weapons, Silencers, Short barrled rifles or shotguns, or to put a shoulder stock on a pistol.
 
Yikes!

So does that mean, that the wallet holster that my dad bought legally several years ago WITHOUT any tax stamps on it, that he carries all the time,(and I currently have in my back pocket) should no longer be carried, or is there some grandfathering (yeah right) ?

Thanks for the tips!
 
No grandfathering! It's not illegal to own one or buy one. It only becomes an NFA weapon if it's "assembled" with the pistol. Kinda like owning a pre-ban upper for your AR. It ain't illegal until you mount it to a post ban receiver.

Mikey
 
Onslaught - If the holster is made for firing a gun while the gun is inside the holster, don't carry it. Don't let him carry it. Destroy it immediately, as there is no amnesty or grandfathering, and punishment for possessing it is a $250,000 fine and 10 years in federal prison. By inserting gun into holster once, and having not paid the proper $5 tax, you've permanently made the holster an illegal AOW. Trust me - the reasoning behind all this is mind-bending, but the BATF takes it VERY seriously.
 
$5? Surely that's a type-o!

Five bucks to register and use the holster?

Okay, so I go home, take the gun out of the holster, CHECK.
But then, how about registering it with the BATF? Following whatever red tape I'm supposed to so that Dad can carry it again? I mean, there's no way for them to tell if the gun was in the holster before of after the law was made, right? This thing was purchased MANY MANY years ago.

Alternative suggestions on "where to go from here" are quite welcome.

Thanks for looking out for my #$$ there CT!!
 
contact the legal expert at SAR

[ This is a long post. But if you really want to
[ keep your Galco wallet holster, I suggest you
[ read this post carefully.

Be VERY CAREFUL about who you consult for advise. As mentioned earlier, the penalty for being wrong is 10 years in prison and a $250,000 fine. The Clinton administration would be only too happy to prosecute (it takes the spotlight off their other evil deeds).

There's a very professional magazine called "Small Arms Review" (SAR) that has a lawyer who answers legal questions like this in his column called "The Legal Side". The URL for SAR is:

http://www.smallarmsreview.com/

The magazine's main focus is restricted weapons (machine guns, silencers, etc., ie, "Class 3" weapons, aka "Title II" weapons), particularly in the context of civilian ownership.

I've learned some very scary legal stuff from SAR. I knew that saying, "Officer XYZ told me it was okay" wouldn't hold much weight in court.

But... what I was horrified to learn was that what the ATF tells you also can't be relied upon for your defense in court. EVEN IF THEY GAVE IT TO YOU IN WRITING!

Yup, it's true. Here's a quote from "The Legal Side" article on p17 of the Nov '99 issue of SAR:

"While the ATF administers the National Firearms Act, attorneys from the Department of Justice, not the ATF, will prosecute you for a violation of that law. Ultimately, what DOJ thinks the law means, not ATF, will determine whether you go to trial. Indeed, sometimes courts and DOJ attorneys will disregard the ATF view on what a law covers. There are a number of published cases in which that happened, and the defendant was convicted even though ATF apparently didn't consider the conduct unlawful, and said so."

And here's a related quote from the editor of SAR, on p14 of the Nov '97 issue of SAR:

"I can name three prominent Class III dealers [ie, dealers who are allowed to sell Title II weapons: machine guns, silencers, and Any Other Weapons like your pocket holster --navaho] who had years of problems with the federal government because they got a determination IN WRITING, from the local ATF office. They then acted on the letter, and Washington later overruled the regional office which left the dealers in violation."

The editor then goes on to point out:

"The gun laws in the US do not make any sense because they are NOT the laws that they writers intended to write."

He then explains that in 1934, the government wanted to ban machine gun ownership by civilians. The attorney general told them that they couldn't (2nd Amendment), but... they could TAX them. Nudge, nudge, wink wink. So in 1934, the federal government imposed a $200 tax on machine gun ownership. This is 1934, when $200 is a huge amount. Even huger considering that 1934 was _the_ worst year of the Great Depression, and we had an unemployment rate of 35%!

In other words, what the feds really want to do is ban ownership of firearms. They can't, so they have created a legal mishmash of laws that makes the US Tax code look logical and trivial in comparison.

----

One last note. The June '98 issue of SAR contains an article about the Galco wallet holster. Here are some relevant excerpts:

"The ATF defines an Any Other Weapon (AOW) as, 'any weapon or device capable of being concealed on the person from which a shot can be discharged through the energy of an explosive'. By using this definition alone, this could one day be used to cover almost any concealed firearm, for example a pistol that can be discharged through a coat pocket."

...

Since the wallet doesn't have a serial number, the ATF required the _firearm_ and wallet to be registered as a combination, on an ATF Form 2.

"The Galco line discontinued these items as of Oct 2, 1997... due to 'extreme customer service attention needed to field dealer questions' which has 'made it unprofitable to continue its sale'."

...

"After all the paperwork and red tape required to register the pistol/holster combo, one is left with the question, 'Was it worth it?' Truthfully, probably not. The holster combo does make an excellent backup piece for concealed carry. However, due to the classification of the holster combo as an NFA weapon, the holster will end up in the back of my safe as a curio only. It will probably never be taken out except as a conversation piece."
 
it is legal because it doesn't have a hole in the leather where the trigger is to fire it without removing from the holster.
with legal pocket/wallet holsters, the gun has to be removed from the holster in order to fire it.
 
alamo is right...if you can fire the gun with the holster on it, it is illegal. Silly but true. And the tax stamp to make it legal is five(5) dollars. ...but the red tape is a pain...
 
Wow, Navaho, and all other respondants, THANK YOU!

I'll be checking into the fix for Dad's, and I'll be looking to a "pocket holster" for my Guardian, when I get it.

Thanks again!

STeve
 
Onslaught,

You're very welcome!

Glad I was able to help. I've got every single issue of Small Arms Review (40 or so), and was on the verge of throwing them out 'cause I never refered back to them, and the wife was whining about storage space.

I think I'll hold onto them for a while longer now ;)
 
Wallet Holster

Are you all sure it is only $5 ? to buy it from a manufacturerer as an AOW, is one thing, but as far as I know, getting a wallet with a view to joining it to a gun is "Making" and has to pay the full $200 just as when you make an AOW from scratch.

OK, $200 if you do it all yourself,

$5 if you go through a AOW dealer / manufacturer, they will charge you something additional anyway.

**************************************

BATFE LETTER

" WALLET GUNS
ATF has received numerous inquiries regarding
wallet guns and wallet holsters.
As defined in section 5845(e) of the National
Firearms Act (NFA), the term “any other weapon”
includes certain concealable weapons. Various
types of disguised weapons such as cane guns, belt
buckle guns, and briefcase guns (with remote
control firing mechanisms) fall within the “any
other weapon” category. It is unlawfil to make,
possess, or transfer such firearms without
complying with the provisions of the NFA.
During the 1970’s, ATF determined that various
small handguns combined with certain “wallet
holsters” fall into the “any other weapon” category
and are subject to the provisions of the NFA.
These wallet holsters are generally rectangular in
shape, are designed to disguise the appearance of
the handgun, and are designed to allow the weapon
to be fired while it is contained within the wallet.
The handgun combined with the wallet holster
constitutes an NFA firearm. page 1

"A conventional pistol or revolver which is
possessed without the wallet holster would not be
an NFA firearm. A wallet holster alone is not
subject to NFA controls and cannot be registered
or transferred a- a firearm. Firearms contained in
conventional holsters, trouser pockets, purses,
gun cases, or various other forms of carrying
cases have not been determined to fall within the
definition of an “any other weapon,” even though
it maybe possible to discharge a firearm while it
is carried in such a manner.
In order for an individual to lawfully “make” a
wallet gun, that is to say, acquire both the
handgun and the wallet holster, the person must
first submit an Application to Make and Register
a Firearm (ATF Form 1), pay a $200.00 making
tmq and receive approval of the application. The
serial number appearing on the handgun should
be used to register the firearm. Transfer of a
wallet gun requires an approved transfer
application and payment of a $5 transfer tax. A
transfer will not be approved unless the wallet
gun has been registered to the transferor.
Mere sale or possession of the wallet holster
without the handgun is not a violation of the
NFA. However, 18 U.S.C. section 2 provides that
a person who aids or abets another person in the
commission of an offense is also responsible for
the offense. Therefore, sale or distribution of a
wallet holster with knowledge that it will be used
to make an unregistered NFA firearm may also
place the seller or distributor of the holster in
violation of the NFA." page 2

**************************

So to be completely legal, you buy the gun first.
Then file the paperwork and pay $200,

Then wait for BATFE approval / tax stamp / paperwork,

Once you have approved paperwork and tax stamp in hand,

Then aquire or buy or make the holster.

It is well worth the hassle for the advantage or edge it gives you !!!!!

If you contact a dealer, see what they charge and figure out if it is cheaper than doing it yourself, all costs considered, time and gas a day or two off from work etc.....
 
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AND, you can't do it for your dad- unless you form a trust that he is a member of.
The best thing to do with these is toss them in the trash. If you can legally carry a gun, it doesn't need to be disguised as a wallet.
 
HOLY SMOKE! That IS one from the vault. I am glad it got dragged up though. I was thinking JUST TODAY about a holster like that for hip pocket carry!:eek:

I think I'll pass on the idea. I've never met "Bubba" and I wouldn't care to. :D
 
Old thread or not...

What about any of the nylon pocket holsters for any revolver. You certainly could carry one in a coat pocket and shoot the gun while still in the holster.

How does that differ from the holster above?
 
"What about any of the nylon pocket holsters for any revolver. You certainly could carry one in a coat pocket and shoot the gun while still in the holster.

How does that differ from the holster above?"

From Post #14:
Firearms contained in
conventional holsters, trouser pockets, purses,
gun cases, or various other forms of carrying
cases have not been determined to fall within the
definition of an “any other weapon,” even though
it maybe possible to discharge a firearm while it
is carried in such a manner.
 
The "NFA" regulated holsters are made with a hole at the trigger area and designed so it can be easily fired without moving the pistol from the holster. You can pretty much shoot any pocketed gun from a holster in a pocket if your fingers are able to get to the trigger.
 
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