VP shoots hunter

Do you think there should be some kind of hunting education / training?

  • Yes

    Votes: 46 80.7%

  • No

    Votes: 11 19.3%
  • Total voters
    57
  • Poll closed .
Limeyfellow: Caged birds? I missed that, in the articles.

The Armstrong ranch is down in that King Ranch country. John B. was attorney for the KR; his son now runs the Amrstrong operation.

Hunting from a vehicle is common in "big country". You drive along to where quail are or might be. If you see a covey, folks jump out and "go play". Or, you stop and get out and then work likely cover. I've covered as many as fifty miles in a day in my area, in the back country. I've walked eight and ten miles, as well.

All the safety classes and training in the world are of no use whatsoever once you have that quail bird in line with that front sight. Nothing else exists in your vision except some blur. This is nothing new; Hemingway wrote about it, as did Ruark--and that was decades ago...

Art
 
ART, are you saying that "its all in the game-expect to shoot your hunting buddy if you go quail hunting."???????????:eek:
When did they stop using dogs to quail hunt in texas. WE use to ride in vehicles ok, but we were folloing dogs and when they pointed we got out and shot the birds. Never did shoot each other.:D
 
the guy might die

hi,
I'm not a bird hunter but I always thought you would observe the 180 rule at least. It seems the VP turned almost all the way around and shot. Is that usual for bird hunting? I don't want to pre-judge the man, but some details would ease my mind.

The bottom line is that here is a guy who holds our lives in his hands and it appears he may be a reckless person with potentially fatal results.

I wouldn't say, "oh come on, its no big deal," when the man might die.

Also he didn't just "wing" the guy. They took 200 pellets out of his face, neck and chest. He had a heart attack this am due to a pellet in his heart.

kiov
 
Y'know, you really gotta be reaching to come up with "expect to shoot your hunting buddy". The deal is that any time a group is hunting, you work to AVOID shooting your hunting buddy. And remember, it's mutual responsibility for all concerned.

That said, and remembering that all we have to go by is the news reports, Whittington had made himself not part of the group. What he thought Cheny was doing or was gonna do is not what Cheney did. And vice versa. They both lost "situational awareness". Shooter and shootee both screwed up.

As near as I can tell, Cheney *assumed* Whittington was back by the car, or well behind him, or some such. Whittington *assumed* he'd catch up with Cheney before Cheney found any more birds.

I don't mean to make light of it; it's tragic. No doubt. But, accidents DO happen.

I'd rather try to figure out what real-world lessons can be learned, rather than go playing the blame-game.

To me, it reinforces the bit about situational awareness, and the need for all parties in a hunt to make sure they know where the others are, or which way they're headed.

Ever seen or shot Sporting Clays? Where they have limit stakes to control your shooting angles? When hunting with a group, you MUST never lose the imaginary location of those limit stakes. That way, you don't swing toward a partner who maybe got a few steps ahead. If a bird gets outside your limit, stop. Courtesy sez holler, "Your bird!" or some such agreed upon deal. But you have to think about it, and make it a reflex.

But like the song sez, "Hindsight's 20-20..." and it does no good unless you think about it ahead of time and go over the rules when you get with a group.

Art
 
I think Art makes the right points here concerning hunting safety.

This morning I saw the VP take responsiblity for the accident, which goes a long way with me. No excuses, no blame directed elsewhere. I gained more respect for the man. It wasn't the usual politician reply. Refreshing.

A reckless or irresponsible person would have been pointing at everyone and everything else to show how he wasn't to blame.

It just bugs me that this hurts pro-gun people since many non-shooters think this proves something. Still, hard to blame Cheney when he steps up and says, "I pulled the trigger. Its my fault, period."

kiov
 
Yes. And there is, at least in my state, at least for those born 1972 or later. I am grandfathered having been born before that, but all the young uns and everyone from here on out will have to participate in hunter education and pass the test at the end of the day to get any hunting license.
 
Wuz coffeeing with Jim Wilson, yesterday. He got a call from a WashPost reporter on the story. The reporter was up front, admitting he kneww nothing about guns and hunting.

Jim pointed out that if you're gonna go dove and quail hunting, you're gonna get "rained on". That's just part of the deal. Hunting can be dangerous. Same for snowboarding or football. Or commuting via motorcycle. Most of the time, it's merely a joking matter. This event was unusual in that regard.

Jim explained about the "delay" in law enforcement investigation: Most rural sheriffs know most of the ranchers in their counties. Now, the Armstrongs aren't a flight risk. The Vice-President of the United States is certainly not a flight risk. No "red flags" about the incident, so what's the rush? The priority is the medical attention and family notification and all that important stuff, not routine paperwork.

Art
 
everyone i know that quail hunts on a reg. basis has been peppered, peppered someone, or been w/ someone who has.
 
If joe bob and joe bill had the accdent would anybody ever hear bout this happens every year in Texas people the press is tearing this Country apart:mad: :mad: :mad:
 
:D :D


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Art and pse, Gentlemen I have hunted quail for over 50 years, trained and sold bird dogs for awhile after I got out of the service and I have never known anyone to get "sprayed" during a quail hunt. I have known of a couple, but only a couple who were shot while quail hunting, always due to the shooters carelessness. I have also shot doves during this entire time and folks get "sprinkled" (we call it rained on) on practically every hunt, but I have know of a couple who got shot also while dove hunting and again due to carelessness.
In either case, getting shot is due to carelessness on the part of the shooter, I would hope nothing more and nothing less and getting sprayed is not a common occurance during quail hunting.
I challenge you to call a few large quail hunting reserve and ask them how many of their hunters got shot last year.
 
Not Me

I have never peppered anyone while hunting. I have never been peppered. Maybe if I hunt often enough and long enough it will happen, or maybe I am very picky about who I hunt with.
 
Lordy!

Somewhere in one of these threads I commented that both Cheney and Whittington had lost situational awareness. Sure, that's carelessness, but rather than the generic word "carelessness", I preferred the more specific term for what happened.

Doesn't matter one iota if it's never happened to you. Or, to me. It has happened to others and will continue through the years. Somewhere, sometime, it's gonna happen to someone. 99% of the time, it's "rained on".

Art
 
Safety Rule

We all have seen gun safety rules. They are listed in most guns' owner's manuals. They are taught in hunter safety courses. Ammunition manufacturers use them is their advertising. Sometimes they are referred to as commandments. No matter where they are seen, they have the same basic gun safety rules. They might be worded different, but the messages are the same.

One rule that is always included has to do with identifying your target. It says that the intended target must be clearly visible and the background must be likewise. One is not to pull the trigger until these two requirements have been met. There is nothing in this rule that makes an exception for bird hunting. There is no asterick with an explantion that says that if one is following a fast, small bird with their shotgun, then this rule does not apply.

Whenever and wherever someone shoots someone else, a safety rule was violated. I will go home empty handed before I ever violate one of these rules. I will not hunt with anyone that thinks these rules are to be applied on a situational method.
 
"I will not hunt with anyone that thinks these rules are to be applied on a situational method."

I don't think anybody who's discussed the event has advocated anything like that.

What I've tried to point out is what happens to people who've lost situational awareness, and have adrenalin pumping.

If ya just gotta talk about rules and commandments, the mainest rule about hunting in a group is that everybody has a mutual responsibility for ensuring that everybody knows everybody's location at all times.

Art
 
Re:art Eatman

If I have misunderstood you I apologize. But when you add terms like, "situational awareness" and "adrenalin" to you replies it comes across as though you are making alibies. Those two terms are not part of any gun safety rules I have ever read.

How would you like to be flying in a 767 at 40,000 feet with a pilot that has problems with situational awareness?
 
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