Very Old S&W Revolver - What do I have?

I purchased a nice little K-frame .38 special years ago without really knowing what it was. I joined the SW Forum just to find out. They told me it was a SW pre-M&P Target Model from the late 20s. Now, since the M&P is a fixed sight revolver, how can an adjustable sight revolver be a pre-M&P? :confused: :)

SW_PreMPTarget_04.jpg
 
Now, since the M&P is a fixed sight revolver, how can an adjustable sight revolver be a pre-M&P?
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From the beginning of the Military and Police line most were fixed sight guns but target versions of the guns were offered. The had the front and rear sights shown in your pic.

I would of described the gun this way (without knowing the serial number I go by your 1920s DOB)...38 Hand Ejector Model of 1905, 4th change Target Variation. I would have added that it was part of S&Ws Military and Police line of guns. I believe by then that S&W was calling them the M&P line. I would not have called it a pre-M&P.

I also would have encouraged you to get a copy of the Standard Catalog of Smith and Wesson. Used, good condition copies are available for a small investment. Fun reading and very useful over the years.

If you really want all the details, including where it was shipped to by the factory and when it was shipped a letter from S&W historian Roy Jinks will do that. Also be more accurate than what I'm recalling here.

Sometimes people make mistakes in internet forums. Shocking ain't it!

Nice looking gun by the way.

tipoc
 
Despite the risk of arousing someones ire, I feel the urge to add my comments to this discussion. I worked for many years as mechanic and learned early on to be very specific in my nomenclature of make/model/year and various other sundry details of whatever machine that I was working on.

This OCD attitude has permeated my life and I find that now I dislike it when someone is trying to describe something using the most basic of generalities. True, if someone says "I have a pre model 10" I would know what they basically have, but only in the most general way.

If, however, they say "I have a pre war M&P, model of 1905 4th change, Smith and Wesson in .38 special" you know exactly what they have. I think that part of the problem is the general laziness that seems to have overtaken our language, where people don't want to take the time to be more specific. You know, the old "that's close enough" attitude.

Now, I don't have a world class collection of Smiths, in fact it only consists of seven guns. I have, however made the effort to know what I have, when it was made and a little of the history of the various guns in my safe.

I know that my personal feelings about the whole "pre model" thing will make no difference in what people say. If others want to be somewhat lazy, that is their business, not mine.

Don't get me started on those that post on the forums with questions regarding what year their gun was made, when if they had bothered to take a few minutes to do some research, they could have found out using the same online sources that those who answer them use.

And then there are the people that have questions about their S&W .38 CTG.
 
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Nice pre-Model 10/pre Victory there, KYJim.

If someone told you that it's a pre-M&P, though, that's absolutely incorrect, because the Model of 1899, the very first .38 Hand Ejectors, were Military & Police Models, and that name has been carried through to today.

If this were anything other than a hobby, if it were a vocation, if peoples' lives depended on exact, specific terminology, that would be one thing.

But this is a hobby, and most of the disputed designations being discussed here arose from the various hobbyist communities, not from official factory nomenclature.

Supica and Nahaus include some of those hobbyist designations in their books, but that in no way conveys any sense or nature of officiality other than they're the ones who compiled the book. It certain means no official standing from S&W.

Until Congress passes a law instituting an S&W equivalent of the Icelandic Language Council, those terms remain hobbyist designations with absolutely NO official status other than some people use them, and some don't.
 
But this is a hobby, and most of the disputed designations being discussed here arose from the various hobbyist communities, not from official factory nomenclature.
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Everyone knows that boss. I'd just add that many of the designations collectors use arose from S&W and from factory literature.

Companies, whether they make guns or automobiles, produce them for a profit and with that foremost in mind. They make design changes or name changes as they see fit or as the market or contracts demand. They are not so interested in keeping track of the name changes that they make or the details of the variations. They can't tell ya how many guns were shipped with a combination of new and old features decades after the fact, they did not care for the most part.

The shooters who loved their guns and historians did care and started keeping track. They developed a nomenclature to help keep it sorted out that often builds on factory nomenclature. For good or ill and with some disputes those designations stand. This works for S&W aficionados, Colt collectors, Ruger guys, Luger folks and many others. It also works for Chevy and Dodge guys, the saber-metricians of baseball, stamp collectors, etc., etc.

tipoc
 
if Smith and Wesson really cared about what thier collectors/customers thought, there wouldn't be a Stryker-fired DAO polymer pistol called the M&P....:mad:
 
I would of described the gun this way (without knowing the serial number I go by your 1920s DOB)...38 Hand Ejector Model of 1905, 4th change Target Variation. I would have added that it was part of S&Ws Military and Police line of guns. I believe by then that S&W was calling them the M&P line. I would not have called it a pre-M&P.
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That makes sense to me.

Nice pre-Model 10/pre Victory there, KYJim.

If someone told you that it's a pre-M&P, though, that's absolutely incorrect, because the Model of 1899, the very first .38 Hand Ejectors, were Military & Police Models, and that name has been carried through to today.
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Thanks for the compliment. It's a really nice revolver to shoot. On the pre-M&P designation, maybe I'll just start using Tipoc's description.
 
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