Very Old S&W Revolver - What do I have?

J

Jkraig

Inactive
I recently traded for this revolver, but am unsure of the year or model. Any help would be appreciated. The owner thought is was from 1902.

Serial # 565xxx
Left side barrel: 38 S&W Special CTG
Right Side of Barrel: SMITH & WESSON
Top of barrel: Smith & Wesson Springfield Mass USA
Patented Feb, 6,06 Sept14,09 Dec,29,14
Left Frame: Made in USA
Right Frame: Trade Mark and S&W logo
Inside of frame near the cylinder: 35578
Cylinder: # matches the serial number

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I believe you have a .38 Special Hand Ejector M&P from 1905 - 06.
I don't know much about these old M&Ps so I'll let someone else tell you more.

Made a boo boo on the date, I thought it was a 5 digit number. Need to keep my glasses on.
 
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Yep, it's an M&P. You'll also see this called a "Pre-Model 10", since it's the model that later evolved to become the Model 10.

Based on the 1914 patent date, yours is obviously from some time after that. I have the same gun in the 472XXX serial number range, and mine is from the late 1920s / early 1930s, so yours is from before then - possibly early- to mid 1920s?

Edit - I confused your serial number and the number inside the crane. Since your serial number is 565XXX, it would have been made after mine, not before it. So you're probably looking at something from the 1930s.
 
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565xxx would be after 472xxx, but the late 1920's early 1930's would be about right.

That gun has the old type hammer block which was not reliable, so many folks suggest carrying it with an empty chamber under the hammer.

Jim
 
Good five screw S&W .38 Spl. Fair amount of bluing still on it to.

I have the 'I' frame .32 version made in 1912, yes bi-planes were just coming into use.

What history those guns saw!

Deaf
 
Hickok45 just posted a video yesterday on youtube with a very similar probably same exact gun. A "Pre model10". If you havent check out that vid you should search him and it should be his latest video on his channel was very educational. Pretty neat revolver. I hope to get one some day. Apparently there are around 3 million of them.
 
You've got an earlyish Model of 1905 4th change, possibly one of the last ones made with the hard rubber stocks, which were dropped as an option in, I believe, the early 1930s.

This model is, in many ways, the definitive Military and Police, as it was the last of the pre-WW II engineering change revolvers and, when war came, provided yoeman's service not only for the United States but for many of our allies, as well.

Unfortunately, yours has seen some hard storage in that the finish is pretty thin and it appears that you have a significant amount of pitting on the barrel, but the stocks are in very nice condition with very little wear.

That indicates to me a gun that was shot little but stored in a leather holster for long periods of time.

My guess is that a look down the barrel will show strong lands and grooves and a nice shine.

The nice thing is, though, that the bluing remains blue - it hasn't gone over to the brown flaky patina that is indicative of even worse storage or even harder use. I have, IIRC (it's in the safe, I'll dig it out later) a third model made in the early 1920s that has gone all patina on me. It is mechanically very nice, but it looks as if it were browned, not blued.
 
I like the fine old names like Military and Police, with the year model and change number given for precise identification. The term "pre-model 10" just kind of sets my teeth on edge.
I got lectured on the S&W board. It seems that in some collecting circles, "pre-model 10" specifically means a post-WWII short action Military & Police made before they started stamping model numbers in 1957 but mechanically identical to one with model number. They do not use the pre-model xx term for older guns like this one.
 
I got the same lecture, once.

My response was... feisty. :p

And I've continued to refer to pre-1957 guns as pre-Model 10s.

Just to tick them off.
 
Well, out of sheer cantankerousness, you can call it what you want...you would be wrong.
One thing is for sure..the OP's M&P is a nice example I would like to shoot.
Here is my Pre-Model 10...It dates to 1957, but missed getting stamped Model 10.
I got it off Armslist last year for $225.
Saw it online, and noticed it was located 10min from my house. I was home with it 45 min after first spotting it.
DSC02134.jpg
 
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OK, how about this...

I'll just call them Victory Models.

All of them.

And it wouldn't be incorrect to call a circa 1920 Military and Police a pre Model 10 any more than it would be to call a 1980 Model 10 a Military and Police.

The Military and Police is the commonality throughout the entire history of the gun, starting with the Model of 1899.

Everything else is just pish posh convenience window dressing.

Nice Victory Model, by the way.

:p
 
Sorry...no "V" prefix serial, no lanyard loop, no parkarized finish...nope, not a victory model.
I just call it a "Thirty-Eight".
 
I question whether one can legitimately refer to any revolver with a swing-out cylinder as a "Very Old S&W Revolver." IMO to get into the "very old" category one would need to have a top-break or bottom-break design.
:D

Nice piece, BTW.
 
" IMO to get into the "very old" category one would need to have a top-break or bottom-break design."

S&W made breaktops right up to 1940.
 
"And it would since it's inaccurate."

And, as I noted earlier, no, it's really not, because all it is is a collective identifier. It tells you nothing specific about the gun other than it's a K frame .38 Special made prior to 1957.

In that sense, it's the exact same as grouping all of the many variations of post-1957 guns into the "Model 10" class.

Calling one of these a model 10 tells you only the most very basic thing about the gun -- it's a K frame .38. Other than that, nothing.

Is it a heavy barrel? Is it a pencil barrel? Round butt? Square butt? 10-2? 10-6? 10-792,289? Is it even one of the very few .357 Magnum or 9mms?

Even the term Victory Model is FAR more specific and far more informative about exactly what attributes a particular K frame M&P might have.

Sometimes people get FAR too hung up on terms that are used collectively as a class name.

If you, or someone else, were to argue that only the post war, short-action M&Ps made between 1946 and 1957 are pre-Model 10s, then you may have a firmer argument.
 
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