Vang Convicted!!!

[Wildalaska]

The scenario made official in court may or may not be what happened. I don't know. I wasn't there. Neither were you.

But under our system of justice, the scenario in Court is about as close to what actually happened outside of God herself layin down the truth

Also keep in mind that in most jusridictions, self defense is a defense that if raised, must be DISPROVED beyond a reasonable doubt.

Regardless of who may or may not have started it, the fact remains that there is absolutely no scenario that would justify shooting an unarmed person in the back at over 100 yards.

In classic self defense cases, once the threat is gone you cant continue using deadly physical force...if I pop you in the gut with a 32 and you are down and no longer a threat, I cant finish you off with one to the head.

WildthepermutationsareendlessAlaska

 

[Pryde]

I really liked AndrewTB's post and I was thinking something along the same lines. I think alot of the non-minority members of this forum really don't understand what it feels like to be threatened based soley on your race and feel in danger in that sort of situation.

Like Andrew said, imagine you are going somewhere and for some reason you pass through some sort of urban ghetto and you happen to be packing a concealed weapon. 6 ethnic locals come up to one of you, one of them brandishing a firearm and tell you that you are on thier turf and you need to gtfo before they do something about it. They're talking smack to you and calling you white boy etc etc and how you don't belong in thier hood. You turn around to walk away and one of them fires a pot shot at you.

Now assuming you had military training to react a certain way in dangerous situations I honestly doubt many people would have done differently from vang. He was probably already on a heightened sense of danger from being threatened and being shot at just let it all out.

This wasn't premeditated murder here, he didn't see them and start firing and he didn't plan on killing anyone that day. They pushed him too far and paid the price for it.

 

[JR47]

Being on somebody's "Turf", and trespassing on somebody's property are far different under the law. Shooting unarmed people, who are attempting to flee isn't a self-defense under ANY law. Remaining in place, and ambushing resuers also fails the self-defense criterion. Walking up to someone that you shot to finish them off also fails any attempt at justification.

Jeez, get past the racial slurs quote, will ya'? One person is supposed to have uttered them. That is also in question as to who was the FIRST person to utter them, at that. Anyone who hasn't dealt with the innate clannishness of the Hmong, and their "worldview" of other races, shouldn't talk about ethnic slurs.

There is also the point that Vang, in direct violation of law, had obscured his hunter id. Let's see, trespassing unknowingly? Or trespassing with the knowledge that he wouldn't be traced without that id number? This whole thing stinks. A look at what actually occurred, without "racial" implications, shows a mass-murderer. Vang shot these people, then ambushed the rescuers.

 

[Russ5924]

How can the state allow anyone to hunt with a Ak-47 in the first place or was it against the law and was carrying it anyway.???????????????/

 

[molonlabe]

It was not an AK47 but a Siega which is a semi auto knock off of the same style. And I hunted Wisconsin with a M1A, Whats wrong with that?



I'm sure glad this guy wasn't tried in this forum, he may have walked.

 

[progunner1957]

Vang is 36 - should live another 36+ years, if none of his fellow inmates whack him. IMHO, 36+ years in prison is much worse punishment than being put to sleep like a terminally ill pet.

From what I have heard, prison life isn't exactly a self-actualizing environment...

 

[Trip20]

I live in Central Wisconsin. As soon as this story hit the air waves Vang was guilty in the public's eyes almost instantaneously. This state, and especially the central and northern parts are extremely alive with prejudice towards the Hmong population. I've never experienced a more blatantly racist atmosphere than when I moved to central Wisconsin.

There is absolutely not excuse for what Vang did. He should be convicted on all counts. Throw the book at him, I'm all for it.

I just hope no one is thinking that the day was one of green pastures, rainbows, and the landowner/hunters confronting the situation with civil/polite conversation. On the contrary, I’d wager Vang was confronted in a very abrasive and frightening manner.

Again, no excuse for murder, but if you've seen how people can get up here towards the Hmong, you'd be able to understand a little more how one could feel provoked.

This is a gruesome example of how ugly racism can be, and what its ugliness can contribute to (i.e. excessive reprisal).

 

[Trip20]

I'm sure glad this guy wasn't tried in this forum, he may have walked.

I'm sorry, but this is a very ignorant comment.

There's a difference between feeling he should walk, and going beyond the surface to understand the situation in all it's ugliness.

 

[JR47]

Trip, do you deal with the Hmong? I had a lot of contact with them in their native land. They weren't the easiest people to deal with then, and their attitude would teach a Depression-Era Klansman new tricks.

I will agree that it's pretty easy to turn a LOT of people against you and yours with one or two bad apples, but the Hmong are likely just as guilty of exacerbating tensions as anyone else.

By the way, does anyone find it significant that Vang used a Soviet-style weapon to "hunt" with? The primary users of Soviet weaponry in Laos were the Pathet Lao. I wonder.

 

[molonlabe]

I'm sorry, but this is a very ignorant comment

Let see, Your allowed your opinion. I lived in that area for some time. Is there racism Yes, There's racism in Baltimore. Hunting down people, shooting them in the back when they are unarmed, going back to finish the job seems to be excessive but maybe you don't think so. I trust 12 of my peers to make the correct judgment there since you and no one else (even me) has seen or studied a transcript of the trial. So we are all just blowing smoke.

BTW a lot of other people who were not there seem to be searching for some reason this man was moved to this violent action. I say it doesn’t matter and it seems the jury feels the same way. I believe one person was armed and he was taken out early.

 

[Al Norris]

Russ5924 wrote: How can the state allow anyone to hunt with a AK-47 in the first place or was it against the law and was carrying it anyway.?

The AK-47 and its variants are quite capable of taking deer, just as they are quite capable of taking human life. The same statement can be made for just about every 30 caliber long arm... Some states even allow hunting with AR15s and their many variants.

Or are you really saying that no military pattern rifle should be allowed?

 

[Trip20]

Hunting down people, shooting them in the back when they are unarmed, going back to finish the job seems to be excessive but maybe you don't think so.

Oh, really?
Then, why did I say:

There is absolutely no excuse for what Vang did. He should be convicted on all counts. Throw the book at him, I'm all for it.

And hey check this out I even called it excessive too, just for you!

This is a gruesome example of how ugly racism can be, and what its ugliness can contribute to (i.e. excessive reprisal).

I'm wondering if you really read the posts before you respond.

BTW a lot of other people who were not there seem to be searching for some reason this man was moved to this violent action.

Your right. It's easier to form an opinion when you don't understand the entire situation.

Mind you, everyone who "seems to be searching for some reason this man was moved to violent action" has also stated in some way, shape, or form that they agree with the ruling of the court.

Try harder, to understand the difference between being open-minded and assessing all variables (while still agreeing with the ruling), and wanting the guy to walk.

BTW - I grew up in Baltimore. I've lived here in Wausau for the past 7 years. The racism is worse here towards Native Americans, Hmong and orientals in general, than I have ever encountered in Baltimore towards any ethnicity.

 

[Eghad]

My great grandpappy explained the two ends of a firearm to me....

the end you argue from
the end you dont argue from

If a guy has a firearm im not going to stand around insulting him....

if you cant figure that out..you might be dead right too.

The way I have this figured out......

Law Enforcment Officers get paid to do this kind of stuff. If I am armed and in a situation like a tresspasser with a rifle..and he isnt bothering me or threatining me in any way.. Im gonna call in a complaint if he leaves I might follow from a distance and get his vehicle tag number.

I guess they were Dead Right............

 

[molonlabe]

I've never experienced a more blatantly racist atmosphere than when I moved to central Wisconsin.

Well I lived there for 6 years and I never met a more friendly, God fairing bunch of people. I found them difficult to get close to but once you did they were your friends for life. I was told that was the nature of the people up there. I think you painted the whole state as racist and that rubbed me the wrong way. I don't know where your haunts were but mine were the local Gun clubs ansd I never saw that blantant racisim.

Took me my drive home to make me understand what ticked me off about your post. Sorry I wasn't more direct. And this is off topic so I'm done.

 

[Trip20]

I found them difficult to be friends with but once you did they were your friends for life.

I agree with this whole-heartedly. They do not seem to readily accept new-comers, or "transplants" (one who moves here from another state) as I'm sometimes jokingly called. But, I have made some great friends for life here. In fact, I have chosen to remain here instead of moving back to the east coast, even though all of my family still resides in Baltimore. I do like it here.

This area in particular (Wausau & surrounding area) was an area that an enormous amount of Hmong refugees were sent to by the government. The large Lutheran church community in this area asked the government to send the refugees here.

IMO, the influx of a different a culture, coupled with the locals having to watch the "freebees" passed on to the refugees, has contributed to the racism towards Hmong.

I think you painted the whole state as racist and that rubbed me the wrong way.

Well, overwhelmingly my own experiences show that with respect to Hmong and Native American, the central & northcentral WI areas are overwhelmingly racist.

--Hmong racism is due to the refugees I noted above.

--Native American racism is mostly due to DNR regulations (or lack there of). Native Americans spear fish and have other such freedoms which have greatly angered the fishers & hunters.

Do I mean the entire state is racist? No, of course not. Do I mean every soul in the central & northcentral WI area? No, of course not. I did paint with too wide of a brush which may have been interpreted as though I did mean the entire state is racist. For that I apologize.

My haunts are (in no particular order): work, church, trap club, snow mobile club, and I run a soft-tip dart association in central wisconsin.

No hard feelings here molonlabe.

 

[Harley Quinn]

It will be here 20 years from now still being discussed

Vang is going to go free at some date and time. Count on it.

It was not 1st degree murder with all the persons, in my state it was 1st, 2nd, and manslaughter. It will hit the appeals and play different. Make no doubt about it. We have a death penalty in my state and I am sure he would have gone to death row.

I really feel sorry for the families that have lost their loved ones. Hell I feel sorry for Vang. Bad day in Wisconsin. It will be made into a movie and you can count on that.

I just hope it does not affect our gun laws and restrict them even further.
The time to have made sure this did not happen passed the minute they confronted him and called him names, he probably would do it over again if it played the same way.

They sure paid for a bad plan on their part. Bad planning is always something that comes back to bite you.

A very sad day for all of us when something like this happens.

I would never have confronted a poacher or any one out in the hills of our area, to many protecting their pot fields. Every year someone gets shot by a pot field owner. Now that is criminal, and 1st degree.

Harley

 

[sp0rtyt]

Here's the part nobody got:

He was convicted from the ALL WHITE JURY. This trial was rigged from the start.

 

[JR47]

That last post was probably the least informed that I've seen. It's amazing that some people just HAVE to inject "the race card" into everything.

Let's see, I'm white, so having any other races on a jury involving me would be a fixed jury? Wow, suppose an American Samoan were charged in Maine, I guess that he couldn't be tried unless they could find enough American Samoans to sit on the jury?

Jury selection is decided by the attornies, both sides, and the judge, from a huge pool. To be chosen, you have to, first, be a registered voter, and second, show up. Then you are questioned by the attornies and judge. Any of the three can decide that you are ineligible.

Don't you think that the racial make-up of the jury, if the defense wasn't satisfied with it, wouldn't have been played for all it's worth in the news media? Standard ploy for an appeal.

 

[TheBluesMan]

Thanks for the reasoned response, JR47; but there's just no reasoning with some people.

Let's ignore the racist comments and go on with the discussion, okay?

-Dave

 

[Wildalaska]

Hmong racism is due to the refugees I noted above.

Native American racism is mostly due to DNR regulations (or lack there of). Native Americans spear fish and have other such freedoms which have greatly angered the fishers & hunters.

Gee thats nice blame the victims of prejudice for the prejudice

WilddontgetmestartedAlaska