USMC pacific WWII Keep their combat arms?
- Thread starter ketland
- Start date
You may recall the story Skeeter Skelton told about when he was going overseas as a Marine just after the war, I think it was. Being the sort of fellow he was, he felt the need to take personal weapons with him, two revolvers. Someone found out and he had to sell them. I don't recall who he had to sell them to that was allowed to buy them, though.
Sometimes units that are in one place for a long time somehow manage to accumulate a lot of junk, most of it literally junk but some of it good stuff. Lots of spare parts and accessories. The unit I was with was relocating to the states after being in the same location (under different names, beginning as the 11th Airborne Division) for something like 20 years. That sounds like a eternity when you're only 20 years old yourself. Anyway, the commanders realized that some units might possibly have some extra, surplus and mostly unauthorized stuff that no longer had to be accounted for but which they nevertheless didn't want dumped somewhere. They established a literal dumping location under the biggest tent they had for units to drop off anything they weren't supposed to have (and didn't want to keep). There weren't any complete weapons (and I looked carefully!) but there were machine gun barrels, mortar barrels (60mm) and all sorts of electronic equipment. That was only 44 years ago but frankly that's all I remember about it.
The same thing still happens, no doubt, and happened when my son's unit did the same thing. There were also lots of little unit museums here and there that really didn't fare too well with major relocations. Most of that was stuff like drums and flags and whatnot but in some cases, units had obsolete vehicles from fifty years ago that was still kept in running condition. My son reported that a couple of half-tracks were still around, ready to go. Don't know what happened to them.
The paperwork for a firearm to be brought back as a war souvenir was a little more elaborate than the one illustrated here already. Unfortuantely, by the time I got overseas, everything had already been brought back. My father spent the last year of his time overseas as a POW, so his chances of bringing home something useful were low but at least he got home.
Here's a tidbit about some postwar oddities. Some German vehicles used during the war continued in productioin after the war but they weren't fighting vehicles. And some German army decorations and awards were only manufactured and awarded (with allied permission) after the war, too, though only in very small numbers and the actual awards were of relatively poor quality.
Sometimes units that are in one place for a long time somehow manage to accumulate a lot of junk, most of it literally junk but some of it good stuff. Lots of spare parts and accessories. The unit I was with was relocating to the states after being in the same location (under different names, beginning as the 11th Airborne Division) for something like 20 years. That sounds like a eternity when you're only 20 years old yourself. Anyway, the commanders realized that some units might possibly have some extra, surplus and mostly unauthorized stuff that no longer had to be accounted for but which they nevertheless didn't want dumped somewhere. They established a literal dumping location under the biggest tent they had for units to drop off anything they weren't supposed to have (and didn't want to keep). There weren't any complete weapons (and I looked carefully!) but there were machine gun barrels, mortar barrels (60mm) and all sorts of electronic equipment. That was only 44 years ago but frankly that's all I remember about it.
The same thing still happens, no doubt, and happened when my son's unit did the same thing. There were also lots of little unit museums here and there that really didn't fare too well with major relocations. Most of that was stuff like drums and flags and whatnot but in some cases, units had obsolete vehicles from fifty years ago that was still kept in running condition. My son reported that a couple of half-tracks were still around, ready to go. Don't know what happened to them.
The paperwork for a firearm to be brought back as a war souvenir was a little more elaborate than the one illustrated here already. Unfortuantely, by the time I got overseas, everything had already been brought back. My father spent the last year of his time overseas as a POW, so his chances of bringing home something useful were low but at least he got home.
Here's a tidbit about some postwar oddities. Some German vehicles used during the war continued in productioin after the war but they weren't fighting vehicles. And some German army decorations and awards were only manufactured and awarded (with allied permission) after the war, too, though only in very small numbers and the actual awards were of relatively poor quality.
madcratebuilder
New member
Now that"s a BRING BACK!
The Navy pushed aircraft over the side of aircraft carriers, so they could use the space for more important stuff, after the war. I suppose the aircraft were "accounted for", unlike the pistol in a duffel bag?
I have a 1842 Springfield musket, which belonged to someone on my mom's side of the family. Her great-grandfather was a Civil War vet, so it was probably his, right? Now that my mom has passed, there's nobody to question that it was the very musket carried at Vicksburg by "Great Grampa" so-and-so. I still tell the story that way, but my daughters may, in twenty years, remember only the part about a Civil War vet and his musket.
I have a 1842 Springfield musket, which belonged to someone on my mom's side of the family. Her great-grandfather was a Civil War vet, so it was probably his, right? Now that my mom has passed, there's nobody to question that it was the very musket carried at Vicksburg by "Great Grampa" so-and-so. I still tell the story that way, but my daughters may, in twenty years, remember only the part about a Civil War vet and his musket.
m.p.driver
New member
You'd be amazed at what disappears legally or illegally.My grandpa brought back his 1917 Colt from France, and gave it to my Great grand pa,who then carried it as a deputy/prohibition agent/and bootlegger during the 20's-30's.A uncle brought back his m1 carbine from Korea,photos of him shooting it on the farm in 53 attests to this.I was offered a accurized 1911,built from parts for the pistol teams,for $75,you pick the serial number you wanted.
Where there's a will there's a way.
Where there's a will there's a way.
At least some returning vets were allowed to purchase their sidearms, and rifles, if they so desired. And some of those "purchases" never involved Uncle Sam actually getting any money!
Lots of them were just "kept", others were "bought" from the supply sgts (who often pocketed the money and just combat lossed the guns) and some were actually bought and paid for, with all the proper paperwork.
Over the years I have met vets who retained their service arms in each of these ways, so I do know it happened.
Lots of them were just "kept", others were "bought" from the supply sgts (who often pocketed the money and just combat lossed the guns) and some were actually bought and paid for, with all the proper paperwork.
Over the years I have met vets who retained their service arms in each of these ways, so I do know it happened.
My understanding from the talk was that there was no security in most places so you could take most of anything you wanted. And that the government was not much interested in accounting for, and storing, and inventorying tons and tons of equipment that was no longer needed for anything, would soon be obsolete, and maybe still didn't work good.
I know even long after the war of purchasing things left over for $1. They just wanted to get rid of it.
The one written account, and published that I know of is Andy Rooney, in his book, about his WWII experience. He took his jeep with him. No one said anything, or cared, as they did not want to inventory, account for, ship back, etc a jeep that they could not then sell. Other than for $6. It wasn't worth it to the government.
dc
I know even long after the war of purchasing things left over for $1. They just wanted to get rid of it.
The one written account, and published that I know of is Andy Rooney, in his book, about his WWII experience. He took his jeep with him. No one said anything, or cared, as they did not want to inventory, account for, ship back, etc a jeep that they could not then sell. Other than for $6. It wasn't worth it to the government.
dc
The father of one of my friends, was a radio station operator, and upon his return to the states for discharge at San Francisco, he had a carbine and a .45. They asked him to pay for the carbine (which he was issued, per his rating) but not for the .45 (which had been given to him at his duty station). So he did, both.
There was more than a little variation on the practice, especially depending on who was on duty, and the time of day. Clearance personel at 2am, trying to process a shipload of troops tend to cut a few corners to get finished so they can all get some sleep.
There was more than a little variation on the practice, especially depending on who was on duty, and the time of day. Clearance personel at 2am, trying to process a shipload of troops tend to cut a few corners to get finished so they can all get some sleep.
03Shadowbob
New member
My grandfather, USMC, kept his 1911 after leaving the Pacific. He simply told me that he was able to bring it home with him. He never did talk much at all about WW2 and I wish he had but can understand why he wouldn't.
Had an opportunity to speak with another old grunt at the range yesterday. He assured me that upon return to the states, they were stripped of all US weaponry, and had to have all souveniers OK'd and signed over, as the photos erlier in this thread attest to. Also noted that upon release from the service they had to sign paperwork in which the Marine had to describe his physical condition, etc. Said if a man refused to sign, they would be held at base until they did, and that most guys just wanted to be on their way. I have also heard this from those who served in the army, that to get the ruptured duck, they had to indemnify the government from any future claims by signing paperwork establishing their physical and mental well being. Interesting.
Also interesting to note that all the "stories" of men keeping arms they had in combat appear to be largely just that, stories, and that the most likely true source for those arms was post war civilian purchase, in spite of what "Grandpa" said.
Also interesting to note that all the "stories" of men keeping arms they had in combat appear to be largely just that, stories, and that the most likely true source for those arms was post war civilian purchase, in spite of what "Grandpa" said.
The fact is, weapons were brought home, in both approved ways and un approved.
My father was a WWII vet of Europe.
He told me that an uncle brought home an M1 Thompson SMG...the uncle served on a navy ocean going tug which pulled landing craft off invasion beaches. My uncle was in the beach party under fire, and armed only with a 1911. He picked up the Thompson, and kept it for the rest of the war. When my uncles ship docked in San Diego, he walked off with his sea bag and the Thompson over his shoulder, and nobody stopped him.
According to my dad, they fired it one time at an Ohio farm in the late 1940's. My dad said it scared great grandfather so much, that the old man took the gun and buried it somewhere. They are all dead now, and no doubt, that Thompson is a pile of rust.
My father was a weapons expert in his Cav unit. He had a collection of German automatic weapons on his armored car...MG42, MG34, and others. He used them to familiarize other units in the German weapons. He had arranged to have them dewated in France to bring home, when he got dysentery and went in the hospital. When he got out, his unit had shipped out for the Pacific, and all his stuff was gone. As an aside, the atom bombing in Japan meant that his unit beat him home...their ship just changed course mid trip.
My father brought home two pistols from his service, both properly papered. I have one, and my brother has the other, and we both have the paperwork.
Mine is my most reassured possession...it is sad that future generations won't get to have such heirlooms of the service of their relatives.
My father was a WWII vet of Europe.
He told me that an uncle brought home an M1 Thompson SMG...the uncle served on a navy ocean going tug which pulled landing craft off invasion beaches. My uncle was in the beach party under fire, and armed only with a 1911. He picked up the Thompson, and kept it for the rest of the war. When my uncles ship docked in San Diego, he walked off with his sea bag and the Thompson over his shoulder, and nobody stopped him.
According to my dad, they fired it one time at an Ohio farm in the late 1940's. My dad said it scared great grandfather so much, that the old man took the gun and buried it somewhere. They are all dead now, and no doubt, that Thompson is a pile of rust.
My father was a weapons expert in his Cav unit. He had a collection of German automatic weapons on his armored car...MG42, MG34, and others. He used them to familiarize other units in the German weapons. He had arranged to have them dewated in France to bring home, when he got dysentery and went in the hospital. When he got out, his unit had shipped out for the Pacific, and all his stuff was gone. As an aside, the atom bombing in Japan meant that his unit beat him home...their ship just changed course mid trip.
My father brought home two pistols from his service, both properly papered. I have one, and my brother has the other, and we both have the paperwork.
Mine is my most reassured possession...it is sad that future generations won't get to have such heirlooms of the service of their relatives.
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madcratebuilder
New member
One thing can certainly be said about "bring back" discussions.
The first liar doesn't stand a chance!
The first liar doesn't stand a chance!
SPEMack618
New member
BlueTrain said:
To give them to the Greeks to stop the Red Hoarde?
" Gee, we've gone from weapons to jeeps.
I think the top response here is from old0311-1.
And, if jeeps, why not b-29's and P-51's? Gotta love this stuff."
Ketland
You don't have to go far from here to see still the old graveyards of surplus aircraft from the military.
After WWII they had hundreds of them, which were dumped out in the desert and sat there for many years rotting and rusting. You usually could buy one for $1. You had to move it, store it, repair it, etc., and there are still many of them in operation today where exactly that was done.
They did the same with ships.
In San Francisco Bay there is a back bay called Suisun Bay (Susan Bay) where there are still dozens or more old ships, sitting, rusting.
They revived one from WWII to use as a museum (the vets did, not the govt) and it was here in San Pedro for many years. I don't know where it went to now. A supply ship. Lane Victory.
Here is a link.
dc
http://www.suisunbay.com/
http://www.lanevictory.org/
I think the top response here is from old0311-1.
And, if jeeps, why not b-29's and P-51's? Gotta love this stuff."
Ketland
You don't have to go far from here to see still the old graveyards of surplus aircraft from the military.
After WWII they had hundreds of them, which were dumped out in the desert and sat there for many years rotting and rusting. You usually could buy one for $1. You had to move it, store it, repair it, etc., and there are still many of them in operation today where exactly that was done.
They did the same with ships.
In San Francisco Bay there is a back bay called Suisun Bay (Susan Bay) where there are still dozens or more old ships, sitting, rusting.
They revived one from WWII to use as a museum (the vets did, not the govt) and it was here in San Pedro for many years. I don't know where it went to now. A supply ship. Lane Victory.
Here is a link.
dc
http://www.suisunbay.com/
http://www.lanevictory.org/
Not just planes and ships. During the war the government built brand spanking new factories and after the war sold them for pennies on the dollar and in some cases gave them away.
The movie Tucker gives an example of that. Which is why it rings a little hollow when people say America should have had a Marshall Plan of it's own. We had the most modern industrial system in the history of the world, all paid for by Uncle Sam.
By the way Israel armed itself to a great extent by buying "scrap" metal. Tons of surplus armaments were sold as scrap. The toaster you bought in 1948 could have been a bazooka in 47.
The movie Tucker gives an example of that. Which is why it rings a little hollow when people say America should have had a Marshall Plan of it's own. We had the most modern industrial system in the history of the world, all paid for by Uncle Sam.
By the way Israel armed itself to a great extent by buying "scrap" metal. Tons of surplus armaments were sold as scrap. The toaster you bought in 1948 could have been a bazooka in 47.
One book I read about Korea said the Marines held onto many of their vehicles, amphtracs, etc., even got hold of Army vehicles, repainted them Marine Corps green. When the Korean War started they were much better prepared than the Army. Weapons have always been sensitive items in Uncle Sam's military, I doubt that many were brought back legally. Did Uncle Same EVER allow serving or retiring personnel to purchase their weapons?
Gee, I didn't know those guys were able to bring home tanks and trucks and cannons and everything. I guess it was pretty free for all back then.* I don't mind that my neighbor brought home his B-29 from WWII, but it's got this big round thing underneath that he keeps fooling with. Should I move? 
*Or a lot of WWII vets told a lot of lies.
Jim
*Or a lot of WWII vets told a lot of lies.
Jim
Winchester_73
New member
Well I'm not sure how that WWII vet fit a B-29 in his duffel bag, but nevertheless, I would consider calling the police on him because, eh heh hem, that is probably a bomb Keenan! Hopefully its been deactivated but you never know.
Well I got a good story for all you skeptics! - my grandfather was issued a Remington Rand 45. One day out near Normandy with his men (he was a staff sergeant) they were attacked by a pair of Me 109s. They ducked for cover, and my grandfather drew his 45. He fired the entire magazine after the plane passed right over them, the plane caught smoke and sputtered, and the pilot bailed. The other plane flew away. The men were able to catch the Nazi pilot that bailed, and it was none other than Gunther Rall. He had his BYF 42 luger on a shoulder holster, which my grandfather confiscated. In case you don't know, Rall was a top German ace with 275 confirmed aerial victories. Today I am fortunate enough to have both guns but I am also cursed because no one seems to believe me.