Used Llama or New Hi-Point??
- Thread starter KYE-OAT
- Start date
revolvergeek
New member
Sorry if some of the responses came across a bit short. It was not my attention to be flip.
A S&W 10 is a fine pistol, i have shot many many rounds through them. A 5-inch barrelled one was my first handgun. Very solid, accurate and as dependable as they come.
For $200 I would look for any of a number of good revolvers. My personal favorite k-frame is the S&W 15 4-inch. Basically a S&W10 with adjustable sights and a rib down the top of the barrel. Probably a slightly better gun than a S&W 10 if you want to use it for lots of taget shooting.
I have found several 10s and 15s used for under $200. In fact if i get my alternator changed in time tomorrow i will be going to a friends pawnshop to pick up a nice old S&W 10 4-inch for $175. The gun is very very tight, but it has some spots on the blueing.
Ruger Speed Six, Service Six and Security Six (adjustable sights)are also excellent revolvers that are roughly the same size and features, more often found in .357 mag than .38 spl, but often fall in the under $200 price point. VERY strong revolvers, easier to detail strip than the S&W revolvers, but in my experience not as good of triggers out of the box. Shot thousands of rounds of full power .357 mag through a Speed Six with never a hickup.
For the $225 to $250 range, you get into a lot of different models of S&W .357mag revolvers. S&W 13, 65, 581 and 681 all give you fixed sights and are fairly plentiful on the police trade-in market. If you want adjustable sights look at the S&W 19, 66, 586 and 686.
If i could only keep one of my current handguns it would be my S&W 686 4-inch round-butt. Best compromise i know for accuracy, strength, reliability and long term durability.
All of the above would provide you with excellent defensive or recreational guns. If you are mainly looking for a target gun, I would look for a good used Ruger MKII auto or Single Six revolver in .22LR. My favorite .22 that I own is a S&W 18, 4-inch, adjustable sights, superb trigger, and I paid $180 for it. Normal price range for it is probably $200 - $250 used.
There are very few autos in this price range that I know of people have good luck with. The Makarov, CZ52, Tokarev are about it. I have seen some of the FEG Browning Hi-Power copies (not the double actions, but the 'exact' copies) for $220 - $235 at some of our recent local gunshows, and they look rather good. I may yet pick one of those up.
All that said and done, i would say if you just want something to learn to shoot a hangun well with and enjoy shooting buy a used Ruger MKII. If you want something to enjoy shooting and still be able to realistically defend yourself with, i would buy a used S&W 10 or 15.
Hope this helps.
Feel free if you have any other questions.
A S&W 10 is a fine pistol, i have shot many many rounds through them. A 5-inch barrelled one was my first handgun. Very solid, accurate and as dependable as they come.
For $200 I would look for any of a number of good revolvers. My personal favorite k-frame is the S&W 15 4-inch. Basically a S&W10 with adjustable sights and a rib down the top of the barrel. Probably a slightly better gun than a S&W 10 if you want to use it for lots of taget shooting.
I have found several 10s and 15s used for under $200. In fact if i get my alternator changed in time tomorrow i will be going to a friends pawnshop to pick up a nice old S&W 10 4-inch for $175. The gun is very very tight, but it has some spots on the blueing.
Ruger Speed Six, Service Six and Security Six (adjustable sights)are also excellent revolvers that are roughly the same size and features, more often found in .357 mag than .38 spl, but often fall in the under $200 price point. VERY strong revolvers, easier to detail strip than the S&W revolvers, but in my experience not as good of triggers out of the box. Shot thousands of rounds of full power .357 mag through a Speed Six with never a hickup.
For the $225 to $250 range, you get into a lot of different models of S&W .357mag revolvers. S&W 13, 65, 581 and 681 all give you fixed sights and are fairly plentiful on the police trade-in market. If you want adjustable sights look at the S&W 19, 66, 586 and 686.
If i could only keep one of my current handguns it would be my S&W 686 4-inch round-butt. Best compromise i know for accuracy, strength, reliability and long term durability.
All of the above would provide you with excellent defensive or recreational guns. If you are mainly looking for a target gun, I would look for a good used Ruger MKII auto or Single Six revolver in .22LR. My favorite .22 that I own is a S&W 18, 4-inch, adjustable sights, superb trigger, and I paid $180 for it. Normal price range for it is probably $200 - $250 used.
There are very few autos in this price range that I know of people have good luck with. The Makarov, CZ52, Tokarev are about it. I have seen some of the FEG Browning Hi-Power copies (not the double actions, but the 'exact' copies) for $220 - $235 at some of our recent local gunshows, and they look rather good. I may yet pick one of those up.
All that said and done, i would say if you just want something to learn to shoot a hangun well with and enjoy shooting buy a used Ruger MKII. If you want something to enjoy shooting and still be able to realistically defend yourself with, i would buy a used S&W 10 or 15.
Hope this helps.
Feel free if you have any other questions.
Jason Demond
New member
It must be nice to know how a gun looks and performs with out owning or even seeing it . simply be reading what some gun writer says in a mag review. Therse gun mags are paid for by advertisers. Do you think they are going to give a bad review to a maufacture that supports them. The firestorm I just bought looks and performs fine you guys dont really know how the new llamas perform unless you have tried one. I have guns that cost a lot more and probably are of better quality but in the $200 price range the newer llamas are a good buy. Now lets here you guys blast me for thinking for myself....sorry I just dont believe everything I reed or every rumor I here....
As examples of some good sub-$200 guns that have come through our shop over the last five months:
A Manurhin PPK .32: $100.
A rough-but-servicable .22LR Ruger Old Model Bearcat: $169.
More than one Taurus 82 4" .38 Spl in like-new shape: $124.
Scads of Ruger Mk II's from $149 to $199.
A Rossi 971 .357, a 9mm Astra A-70, a couple Ruger Security and Speed Sixes, and others that escape my recollection offhand.
There's a lot of neat guns out there in this price bracket if you keep your eyes peeled.
Enjoy the search!
A Manurhin PPK .32: $100.
A rough-but-servicable .22LR Ruger Old Model Bearcat: $169.
More than one Taurus 82 4" .38 Spl in like-new shape: $124.
Scads of Ruger Mk II's from $149 to $199.
A Rossi 971 .357, a 9mm Astra A-70, a couple Ruger Security and Speed Sixes, and others that escape my recollection offhand.
There's a lot of neat guns out there in this price bracket if you keep your eyes peeled.
Enjoy the search!
Good $200 guns under $200? Really... Not!!! You guys better get out, to the range, not your range, but somewhere they shoot action pistol, like IPSC, IDPA, Steel Challenge. Count the number of $200 guns you see. I'll give you a BIG HINT. ZERO, NONE, NONE AT ALL..... WHY? Simple, they don't work. Shooters that run 2,000 rounds a month, plus, only use guns that gun. Your crappy little guns aren't even there. Say what you want, but when you pull the trigger, for real, it better go bang. Personally, I don't even carry a gun until I have fed 5,000 rounds, yes, correct, 5,000 rounds thru it! Try that with your cheapo guns.......
9x45,
Oh, so folks that can't afford to spring for a $1,500 Les Baer don't get to defend themselves or use a pistol to shoot tin cans, eh?
I work in a gun shop, and have for many years. Obviously it's important for me to have quality guns to trust my life to. Next to my bed is a 625 with a slick action job, a buttery 8.5-pound DA pull and cocobolo Hogues. On my hip in the shop you'll find a G29 with Meps and Agrip or a G30 with ditto, or a Springfield V10 with well over $300 worth of customization done on it already. But, Mr. 9x45, do you know what gun is the one that protects me the most often? The gun I keep in my purse and trust my life to every day, when I have all these fine weapons to choose from? A Rossi 720C .44 Special. Cost? Considerably less than $200. Say what you want, but when I pull the trigger, it does go bang. Our gunsmith is one of the best 1911 'smiths I've seen. His personal defense 1911 is a functional and pragmatic work of art; but hanging from his workbench is a Charter Arms .38 Special. Cost? Less than $200. But what does he know, he's only built more IPSC and IDPA guns than you've seen pictures of.
Besides, your "do you know how many IPSC, IDPA, Steel Challenge" guns bit is flawed reasoning. That's like saying "Do you know how many $5000 used Camrys you see on the starting grids of NASCAR, CART and Formula 1 races? None! That's because they won't win! So obviously they're useless for you to drive to work in!".
Oh, so folks that can't afford to spring for a $1,500 Les Baer don't get to defend themselves or use a pistol to shoot tin cans, eh?
I work in a gun shop, and have for many years. Obviously it's important for me to have quality guns to trust my life to. Next to my bed is a 625 with a slick action job, a buttery 8.5-pound DA pull and cocobolo Hogues. On my hip in the shop you'll find a G29 with Meps and Agrip or a G30 with ditto, or a Springfield V10 with well over $300 worth of customization done on it already. But, Mr. 9x45, do you know what gun is the one that protects me the most often? The gun I keep in my purse and trust my life to every day, when I have all these fine weapons to choose from? A Rossi 720C .44 Special. Cost? Considerably less than $200. Say what you want, but when I pull the trigger, it does go bang. Our gunsmith is one of the best 1911 'smiths I've seen. His personal defense 1911 is a functional and pragmatic work of art; but hanging from his workbench is a Charter Arms .38 Special. Cost? Less than $200. But what does he know, he's only built more IPSC and IDPA guns than you've seen pictures of.
Besides, your "do you know how many IPSC, IDPA, Steel Challenge" guns bit is flawed reasoning. That's like saying "Do you know how many $5000 used Camrys you see on the starting grids of NASCAR, CART and Formula 1 races? None! That's because they won't win! So obviously they're useless for you to drive to work in!".
My $100 Makarov beats the pants off many much more expensive autoloaders. Between it and almost any Glock, I'd pick the Mak. It's very accurate (more accurate than me), reliable (I bought it new, and after a few thousand rounds I have yet to have a single hiccup caused by me or otherwise), and inexpensive. I picked my Bulgarian Military Surplus for $100, plus a 1000 rounds of good ammo for another $100. You can't really beat that. Check out http://www.makarov.com/ for more information.
Marko Kloos
Inactive
If these two are your only choices, get the Llama. The Model 10 you also mentioned would be an excellent choice, superior to either the Llama or the Hi-Point.
I have to strongly disagree with my fellow posters here who feel the need to berate someone who wants to get a handgun on a budget. Some of us just aren't loaded, yet still wish to get a plinker or a tool for home defense. This is not an uncommon scenario, and nobody who asks that kind of question on a serious gun board deserves to get a dozen replies slamming him for it. Affordable handguns can be an issue; isn't that what we go up against when the liberals home in on "Saturday Night Specials"? Don't we say that low-income households have the right to self-defense as well? Apparently, those words are just that for some folks: ammunition in the quiver of the RKBA crusade, spoken without conviction.
You asked for specific opinions on the two choices you have; you also said that there were no others. I suggested to go for the Llama to answer your inquiry, but let me also suggest a few other low-cost handguns I found to be excellent values for the money, all of which will set you back less than $200.
-A Makarov can be had new in the box with spare magazine and holster for around $150. They are all-steel pistols with an excellent, 50-year service record of reliability. They are also very accurate and cheap to feed with surplus or nw commercial Russian ammo. You can find them chambered in .380ACP or (more commonly) in 9mm Makarov. 9mm Mak has better ballistics than .380, while being a little weaker than 9mm Luger.
-A police trade-in Model 10 or Model 64 (stainless version of the Model 10) can often be had for less than $200, and they are very solid guns that can serve many purposes well. Police guns are usually 4" barrelled, and they all shoot .38 Special ammo, which is cheap and very prolific.
-A used Rossi, Charter Arms or Taurus revolver will be well below your price point, while having the same virtues of the Model 10 described above.
I would prefer any of the above to a Hi-Point, Lorcin or Jennings. Those manufacturers achieve their low price tags by using zinc-alloy castings instead of steel. While I'd use one of I had nothing else avaiiable to me, there are better choices all around, especially for $200.
As Tamara suggested, there are plenty of nice guns available for the budget you've set. Good luck, and let us know what you decide on.
I have to strongly disagree with my fellow posters here who feel the need to berate someone who wants to get a handgun on a budget. Some of us just aren't loaded, yet still wish to get a plinker or a tool for home defense. This is not an uncommon scenario, and nobody who asks that kind of question on a serious gun board deserves to get a dozen replies slamming him for it. Affordable handguns can be an issue; isn't that what we go up against when the liberals home in on "Saturday Night Specials"? Don't we say that low-income households have the right to self-defense as well? Apparently, those words are just that for some folks: ammunition in the quiver of the RKBA crusade, spoken without conviction.
You asked for specific opinions on the two choices you have; you also said that there were no others. I suggested to go for the Llama to answer your inquiry, but let me also suggest a few other low-cost handguns I found to be excellent values for the money, all of which will set you back less than $200.
-A Makarov can be had new in the box with spare magazine and holster for around $150. They are all-steel pistols with an excellent, 50-year service record of reliability. They are also very accurate and cheap to feed with surplus or nw commercial Russian ammo. You can find them chambered in .380ACP or (more commonly) in 9mm Makarov. 9mm Mak has better ballistics than .380, while being a little weaker than 9mm Luger.
-A police trade-in Model 10 or Model 64 (stainless version of the Model 10) can often be had for less than $200, and they are very solid guns that can serve many purposes well. Police guns are usually 4" barrelled, and they all shoot .38 Special ammo, which is cheap and very prolific.
-A used Rossi, Charter Arms or Taurus revolver will be well below your price point, while having the same virtues of the Model 10 described above.
I would prefer any of the above to a Hi-Point, Lorcin or Jennings. Those manufacturers achieve their low price tags by using zinc-alloy castings instead of steel. While I'd use one of I had nothing else avaiiable to me, there are better choices all around, especially for $200.
As Tamara suggested, there are plenty of nice guns available for the budget you've set. Good luck, and let us know what you decide on.
Tropical Z
New member
Hi KYE-OAT
For what its worth i own and like my Hi-Point regardless of the ribbings i take from others ( maybe thats part of its allure!).That aside, see if a local dealer will bring in a Bulgarian Makarov from www.gzanders.com
As far as i know,they still have them for a nice price and once you clean it up and bring in 1000 rounds for $110(to your door) you will have a handgun that no Glock-Sig-HK snob can say crap about (they still will,but will also know that you are a smart gun buyer and will know that their $500-$800 gun will not outperform your Makarov except in their wildest dreams!).
For what its worth i own and like my Hi-Point regardless of the ribbings i take from others ( maybe thats part of its allure!).That aside, see if a local dealer will bring in a Bulgarian Makarov from www.gzanders.com
As far as i know,they still have them for a nice price and once you clean it up and bring in 1000 rounds for $110(to your door) you will have a handgun that no Glock-Sig-HK snob can say crap about (they still will,but will also know that you are a smart gun buyer and will know that their $500-$800 gun will not outperform your Makarov except in their wildest dreams!).
rogerdodger
New member
Try a used CZ-83 or any of the FEG models
stay away from the other 2 u mentioned for ur own safety
stay away from the other 2 u mentioned for ur own safety
I have a very old llama 45 that lays beside my bed every nite. loaded with ball ammo. this gun has had a lot of ammo shot through it and it still shoots very well and is very reliable . I would be willing to bet that at least 90 % of those .com critics who are downing llama have never shot one and there info is comeing from some opinionated gun mag that only gives good reviews to advertisers. A gun is a tool a professional mechanic needs the very best tools he can find because they are used daily. A shade tree can get by just fine with tools of lesser qualiy because they are not used as often . as long as they work when he needs them.....get my drift MR PERFECTIONEST
Tamara,
First I never said anyone should have a Les Baer to shoot competitons. What I said was I think the only good guns under $200 are used S&W wheelguns. You do see some of those at IDPA and IPSC, and lots at ICORE. I only compete with Glocks, and not S&W's or Les Baers. Out of curisoty, how many rounds has this Rossi gone thru?
First I never said anyone should have a Les Baer to shoot competitons. What I said was I think the only good guns under $200 are used S&W wheelguns. You do see some of those at IDPA and IPSC, and lots at ICORE. I only compete with Glocks, and not S&W's or Les Baers. Out of curisoty, how many rounds has this Rossi gone thru?
Oh, five or six hundred since I've had it and probably that many by the previous owner. I shoot a cylinder or two through it every second or third range visit. (Small-framed, fixed-sight .44 Specials aren't really designed for plinking.
)Also, when you pay under $200 for a gun, you can get your money's worth out of it a lot quicker. If my Nagant revolver or Manurhin PPK were to crumble to dust tomorrow, it's no big deal; I've already had a few hundred bucks worth of fun out of them both, and neither cost me even $100.
Guns for $200 and slightly higher
I would recommend the following, since all can be had for under $200.00
Used S&W Model 10 or M&P .38 Special $150-$200
Makarov in .380 or 9mm Makarov $99-$150
FEG PA-63 in .380 or 9mm Makarov $89-$125
A good Taurus revolver in .38 or .357 Magnum can be had used for $125-$200, and do have a lifetime warranty, regardless of who owned it in the past or fault of failure
FEG PJK-9HP Browning Hi Power copy, get one of the older ones that are 100% FN/Browning compatible imported by KBI as I've been told that the newer ones that will be out soon are not anymore. I'm also told that KBI will not be importing them anymore. They're in 9mm Parabellum and can be had for $150-$225
Tokarev in 7.62x25 or 9mm Parabellum, range from $100-$170
CZ-52 in the same calibers as the aforementioned Tokarev and
for the same price range.
Ruger P-85 and 89, both can be had for $189-$260 used.
Norinco 1911 copy, as far as the inexpensive 1911s I know of and as I don't have it or any 1911 for that matter, from what I've heard by those who have one, they are the best of the inexpensive 1911s and are even used as platforms for building up. Can be had for $220-$300.
I've shot all execpt the Norinco, so you'll do well with any of them.
I would recommend the following, since all can be had for under $200.00
Used S&W Model 10 or M&P .38 Special $150-$200
Makarov in .380 or 9mm Makarov $99-$150
FEG PA-63 in .380 or 9mm Makarov $89-$125
A good Taurus revolver in .38 or .357 Magnum can be had used for $125-$200, and do have a lifetime warranty, regardless of who owned it in the past or fault of failure
FEG PJK-9HP Browning Hi Power copy, get one of the older ones that are 100% FN/Browning compatible imported by KBI as I've been told that the newer ones that will be out soon are not anymore. I'm also told that KBI will not be importing them anymore. They're in 9mm Parabellum and can be had for $150-$225
Tokarev in 7.62x25 or 9mm Parabellum, range from $100-$170
CZ-52 in the same calibers as the aforementioned Tokarev and
for the same price range.
Ruger P-85 and 89, both can be had for $189-$260 used.
Norinco 1911 copy, as far as the inexpensive 1911s I know of and as I don't have it or any 1911 for that matter, from what I've heard by those who have one, they are the best of the inexpensive 1911s and are even used as platforms for building up. Can be had for $220-$300.
I've shot all execpt the Norinco, so you'll do well with any of them.