US take note: This is how you fight the War on Drugs
- Thread starter Dust Monkey
- Start date
It was only until the first decade or so of the 20th century that drugs were being banned. The late 19th century had all kinds of patent medicines which were composed mostly of alcohol, opium, and/or cocaine and many Americans in the late 19th and early 20th centuries were addicted to narcotics.
(Cure for alcoholism: Morphine dissolved in alcohol.
)
The first 120 years or so the U.S. didn't need laws banning drugs. NArcotics like opium, morphine, cocaine, and heroin were legal and sold over the counter. Marijuana was regularly grown...and turned into rope because most Americans didn't know that it could be an intoxicant. AFter Americans were exposed to Hashish, maraijuana was still not considered a problem.
THe real impetus behind banning drugs is bigotry. Cocaine was demonized by lurid newspaper stories about cocaine crazed blacks raping white women. Ironically, cocaine had been given to black dock workers to keep them working longer hours only a few years before. Opium smoking was banned because that was how CHinese immigrants took the drug. It was still legal in other forms. Marijuana was banned because the Western states wanted to get rid of Mexican immigrants. Alcohol was banned because some Protestant busybodies thought that people who didn't drink would be more industrious and less lascivious, boisterous, and rambunctious.
So the war on drugs is really a war on people ingesting questionable substances because they are bored, unhappy, religious, or curious. It is also a war on capitalism and free society as well because in a free, capitalistic society people are allowed to buy whatever they want and do whatever they want short of murder, rape, stealing, or destruction of other people's property.
(Cure for alcoholism: Morphine dissolved in alcohol.
)The first 120 years or so the U.S. didn't need laws banning drugs. NArcotics like opium, morphine, cocaine, and heroin were legal and sold over the counter. Marijuana was regularly grown...and turned into rope because most Americans didn't know that it could be an intoxicant. AFter Americans were exposed to Hashish, maraijuana was still not considered a problem.
THe real impetus behind banning drugs is bigotry. Cocaine was demonized by lurid newspaper stories about cocaine crazed blacks raping white women. Ironically, cocaine had been given to black dock workers to keep them working longer hours only a few years before. Opium smoking was banned because that was how CHinese immigrants took the drug. It was still legal in other forms. Marijuana was banned because the Western states wanted to get rid of Mexican immigrants. Alcohol was banned because some Protestant busybodies thought that people who didn't drink would be more industrious and less lascivious, boisterous, and rambunctious.
So the war on drugs is really a war on people ingesting questionable substances because they are bored, unhappy, religious, or curious. It is also a war on capitalism and free society as well because in a free, capitalistic society people are allowed to buy whatever they want and do whatever they want short of murder, rape, stealing, or destruction of other people's property.
Limeyfellow
New member
The big problem with the war on drugs began because they didn't want white girls to become hookers in Asian opium dens. Of course this led to them creating a more addictive heroin to remove that threat and that led to more potent drugs from that and have made the problem a thousand times worse with their meddling. It had nothing to do with the actual drug to begin with but more a matter of control and a racist drive.
Then they made it into this great moral myth surrounding it over the years to explain to kids because the old excuse that they didn't want %&#@%& and %*&#*&% screwing their daughters.
Then they made it into this great moral myth surrounding it over the years to explain to kids because the old excuse that they didn't want %&#@%& and %*&#*&% screwing their daughters.
LAK Supply
New member
I think many here are neglecting to mention the Founders' view of moral turpitude...... I wonder if the pathetic beahvoir of someone addicted to a substance that can kill them qualifies as such? As well, I wonder what the effects are on society when those individuals do kill themselves?
As well, where would these legal drugs come from? Man, wouldn't it be great to have big corporations pushing cocaine and meth on a large scale? Now THAT wouldn't cause any problems would it?
While I don't think the feds should regulate ANY of this, there is most definitely a sensible argument for regulation by the state. This is in the best interest of society. Epicurian/hedonistic views have been detramental to every society they've dominated throughout history.
As well, where would these legal drugs come from? Man, wouldn't it be great to have big corporations pushing cocaine and meth on a large scale? Now THAT wouldn't cause any problems would it?
While I don't think the feds should regulate ANY of this, there is most definitely a sensible argument for regulation by the state. This is in the best interest of society. Epicurian/hedonistic views have been detramental to every society they've dominated throughout history.
targetshootr
New member
Because our government subsidizes the one drug that kills more people around the world than all others combined should put an end to the argument. Should, but won't.
Who cares why drugs were made illegal? Todays drugs are simply to addictive. The past has had some idiots printing false propaganda of how drug crazed zombies would do this or that. As a manager of a pawnshop I can tell you that the hardcore drugs do just that as I have seen it first hand. Users will do whatever it takes to get another dose including lie,cheat, steal, sell their bodies, and even kill. Legalization is only going to reduce the price. The need for the drug will still be there. Perhaps fewer will need to do the above in the beginning but eventually they all will have to do the above. Once they can no longer work they will no longer be able to afford even the cheapest of prices yet the need for the drug remains. Once the price drops more of the drug can be used for the same money as before the price drop reducing the user to a mush ball in shorter time spans. Now they are the responsibility of the state for food, shelter, and medicine. I believe the state is you and I. This means your drug use effects me and I now have a right to regulate what effects me. Very simple.
No it's not so simple. The bottom line remains that treating addiction as a public health problem as opposed to a law enforcement problem will reduce the rate of addiction. Putting a crackhead in jail already makes him the responsibility of the state however putting him in rehab increases the chance that he'll leave a better person than he came in, something extremely rare in prison.
But no, you have no right to regulate what goes into my body. Period.
But no, you have no right to regulate what goes into my body. Period.
mrawesome22
New member
Doesn't India have the highest rate of "crack" addiction in the world? LOL
Way to fight that war on drugs! LOL
I bet India will dry up of extasy in no time with the death penalty over their heads! Look how well it does in the U.S. to prevent murder!
Way to fight that war on drugs! LOL
I bet India will dry up of extasy in no time with the death penalty over their heads! Look how well it does in the U.S. to prevent murder!
Let it Bleed
New member
Not every chemically dependent person is a down and out skid row junkie. I know numerous alcoholics who are extremely successful in their professional careers. I am not implying that alcoholism does not have a negative impact on their lives, but the junkie loser analogy just doesn't hold water.
Second, the war on drugs sure hasn't helped the junkie that everyone seems to love to hate, so why not try something new. Prison costs far more than revolving door rehab, but we just gotta punish.
Third, as a parent I am far more worried about my child being poisoned and irreparably harmed by a youthful indiscretion. Drug use by Dutch teenagers is one of the lowest in the world - imagine that.
Fourth, modern life is completely alien from an evolutionary standpoint. Maybe the use of chemicals is an adaptive strategy to survive in todays world. We have a multi-billion dollar industry that is continually developing new drugs to improve life, but cursed is the man who chooses for himself what he deems safe and efficacious for what ails him.
Some show such a venomous disdain for those who are addicted that I sometimes wonder what drives such animus. Even if you believe an addict has reaped what he has sown, I would think more would feel grateful that "but for the grace of god go I" and show some compassion.
For those who do not consume any mood altering substances, be they licit or illicit, be happy about it. Sometimes the vitriol directed at addicts seems to belie a belief that maybe they missed out on something. That or they are just hypocritical pious windbags like Rush Limbaugh, who incredibly was not willing to accept the draconian punishment that he so vehemently proclaimed was proper for drug users. Even more incredible is that people still listen to this lying, mealy-mouthed, moralistic, sanctimonious, self-righteous, snide, and unctuous douch-bag.
Just a thought.
Second, the war on drugs sure hasn't helped the junkie that everyone seems to love to hate, so why not try something new. Prison costs far more than revolving door rehab, but we just gotta punish.
Third, as a parent I am far more worried about my child being poisoned and irreparably harmed by a youthful indiscretion. Drug use by Dutch teenagers is one of the lowest in the world - imagine that.
Fourth, modern life is completely alien from an evolutionary standpoint. Maybe the use of chemicals is an adaptive strategy to survive in todays world. We have a multi-billion dollar industry that is continually developing new drugs to improve life, but cursed is the man who chooses for himself what he deems safe and efficacious for what ails him.
Some show such a venomous disdain for those who are addicted that I sometimes wonder what drives such animus. Even if you believe an addict has reaped what he has sown, I would think more would feel grateful that "but for the grace of god go I" and show some compassion.
For those who do not consume any mood altering substances, be they licit or illicit, be happy about it. Sometimes the vitriol directed at addicts seems to belie a belief that maybe they missed out on something. That or they are just hypocritical pious windbags like Rush Limbaugh, who incredibly was not willing to accept the draconian punishment that he so vehemently proclaimed was proper for drug users. Even more incredible is that people still listen to this lying, mealy-mouthed, moralistic, sanctimonious, self-righteous, snide, and unctuous douch-bag.
Just a thought.
You've never worked in bush Alaska or an Indian reservation have you?
No one advocating drug legalization condones drug use or abuse. We just recognize that the price being paid and irrepairable damage to the BoR for fighting a nonsensical "Drug War"
is too high for what society is getting in return.The only winners are the cartels and govt agencies.
Let it Bleed...
You sound as if you're from V for Vendetta, I like it. Hahahaha!
As for drug laws, they have the same history as gun control... racism! I believe if you are a responsible user it shouldn't be anyone's business. Drugs for the most part have always been with humans since the beginning and haven't always been villainized as they are now.
Epyon
You sound as if you're from V for Vendetta, I like it. Hahahaha!
As for drug laws, they have the same history as gun control... racism! I believe if you are a responsible user it shouldn't be anyone's business. Drugs for the most part have always been with humans since the beginning and haven't always been villainized as they are now.
Epyon
stephen426
New member
For those who feel that legalizing drugs would solve all of our problems...
Look at the number of lives that have been runied by alcoholism. Most illegal are even more addictive. For most normal people, alcohol can be used recreationally without becoming addictive. How many lives have been lost or ruined by drunk drivers. Lets make even stronger mind altering substances available. I'm sure people will be responsible and not drive while impaired.
While many on this forum tend to believe that individual rights should not be infringed upon by the government, legalizing drug use would immediately affect those who do not use drugs. Look at the crime rate in Amsterdam. I find it hard to believe most drug addicts tend to be good upstanding citizens. Even if drugs were very cheap, crime would still rise since most drug addicts (hard core drugs use on a regular basis) would have a hard time holding down a good job.
I believe that legalzing drugs would lead to a higher rate of usage. Some people are deterred by the penalities that would result from being caught. If drugs were legalized, more people would likely experiment and some will inevitably become addicted.
I sure a hell hope drugs are never legalized. Individuals claim they have a right to do what they want with their bodies, but I can guarantee that their actions will negatively affect my life.
Look at the number of lives that have been runied by alcoholism. Most illegal are even more addictive. For most normal people, alcohol can be used recreationally without becoming addictive. How many lives have been lost or ruined by drunk drivers. Lets make even stronger mind altering substances available. I'm sure people will be responsible and not drive while impaired.
While many on this forum tend to believe that individual rights should not be infringed upon by the government, legalizing drug use would immediately affect those who do not use drugs. Look at the crime rate in Amsterdam. I find it hard to believe most drug addicts tend to be good upstanding citizens. Even if drugs were very cheap, crime would still rise since most drug addicts (hard core drugs use on a regular basis) would have a hard time holding down a good job.
I believe that legalzing drugs would lead to a higher rate of usage. Some people are deterred by the penalities that would result from being caught. If drugs were legalized, more people would likely experiment and some will inevitably become addicted.
I sure a hell hope drugs are never legalized. Individuals claim they have a right to do what they want with their bodies, but I can guarantee that their actions will negatively affect my life.
stephen426...
I think then we should have harsh penalties for activies like driving under intoxication. I think too many drunk drivers get a slap on the wrist for doing it, especially if they are repeat offenders. I really think the penalty for intoxicated driving should be raised especially if we were to legalize drug consumption.
Epyon
I think then we should have harsh penalties for activies like driving under intoxication. I think too many drunk drivers get a slap on the wrist for doing it, especially if they are repeat offenders. I really think the penalty for intoxicated driving should be raised especially if we were to legalize drug consumption.
Epyon
stephen426
New member
Epyon...
Harsh penalties won't bring back your loved ones or get someone out of a wheelchair. Harsh penalties don't mean anything to someone who is intoxicated. Do you really think people get behind the wheel drunk thinking, "Oh well, the worst that can happen is I get arrested and lose my license." They either don't think at all because they are incapable of higher thought processes or they falsely believe that they are capable of driving. Think about if it was your loved ones who were killed or maimed. We already have enough problems with drunk drivers.
Harsh penalties won't bring back your loved ones or get someone out of a wheelchair. Harsh penalties don't mean anything to someone who is intoxicated. Do you really think people get behind the wheel drunk thinking, "Oh well, the worst that can happen is I get arrested and lose my license." They either don't think at all because they are incapable of higher thought processes or they falsely believe that they are capable of driving. Think about if it was your loved ones who were killed or maimed. We already have enough problems with drunk drivers.
You're proving my point...
Current laws for driving intoxicated are too relaxed, why just lose the license? Give them a good jail sentence followed by rehab and community service or something, give them an ankle bracelet and absolutely no access to a vehicle if possible. Harsh penalties for driving while intoxicated may lower incidents. As for drug consumption, all the drugs out now weren't illegal until the government made them illegal and it was mainly through propaganda usually with racism in mind.
Epyon
Current laws for driving intoxicated are too relaxed, why just lose the license? Give them a good jail sentence followed by rehab and community service or something, give them an ankle bracelet and absolutely no access to a vehicle if possible. Harsh penalties for driving while intoxicated may lower incidents. As for drug consumption, all the drugs out now weren't illegal until the government made them illegal and it was mainly through propaganda usually with racism in mind.
Epyon
The illegality of recreational drugs does not seem to reduce their usage in any way. All the current laws do is complete the destruction of the life of the caught user.
From a psychological perspective, the legalization of these chemicals would at least kill the "Forbidden Fruit" aspect of them. That may stop some from trying it before they would become addicted.
Defense of self and property should be legal. Mankind should own themselves, and what you do with your own property is of no concern of anyone else so long as that use does not provably directly impact any other person or property.
The idea of "preventing Crime" is a fallacy. Crime will occur whether or not the are laws to prevent it. We can only punish unless we are willing to surrender any semblance of individual liberty. The collectivist "good of society" rings hollow as it is being supported by those who keep their guns regardless of what the powers that be would say was for the "good of society."
Thanks,
Jefferson
From a psychological perspective, the legalization of these chemicals would at least kill the "Forbidden Fruit" aspect of them. That may stop some from trying it before they would become addicted.
Defense of self and property should be legal. Mankind should own themselves, and what you do with your own property is of no concern of anyone else so long as that use does not provably directly impact any other person or property.
The idea of "preventing Crime" is a fallacy. Crime will occur whether or not the are laws to prevent it. We can only punish unless we are willing to surrender any semblance of individual liberty. The collectivist "good of society" rings hollow as it is being supported by those who keep their guns regardless of what the powers that be would say was for the "good of society."
Thanks,
Jefferson
I've been to Amsterdam. The only crime I worried about was getting my pocket picked, and it didn't happen. Amsterdam (in 2001) was a clean, safe, bustling city with some tourist attractions outlawed in other places. There is not widespread drug legalization there either, only marijuana, mushrooms, and some other drugs are legal. No hard drugs are legal, although you can get them if you want them. No different from any other place in that regard.
What I really worried about in Amsterdam was falling down the stairs and breaking my neck since staircases are always helical and the widest point on the step is about 6-8 inches.
As far as drug addicts being upstanding citizens, well, probably they will not be. But then, many alcoholics are not model citizens either. Lots of people who are not addicted to drugs or alcohol are also not paragons of virtue. I think that "soft" drugs should be legalized, their use regulated and taxed with the proceeds going to rehab programs for people addicted to hard drugs, which will remain prohibited.
oldbillthundercheif
Moderator
I have also been to Amsterdam a few times and failed to notice any "crime". By the American standard there is a lot of crime (hookers, dope, ect...), but I failed to notice any violent crime at all in the news or on the streets. There was one armed robbery when I was there in the mid-80's and everyone seemed shocked.
I have not been over there since 97 so perhaps I should take a trip to assess the current crime-rate for you guys. All donations to this scientific expidition will be heartily appreciated. PM me and I'll let you know where to wire the $.
I have not been over there since 97 so perhaps I should take a trip to assess the current crime-rate for you guys. All donations to this scientific expidition will be heartily appreciated. PM me and I'll let you know where to wire the $.
targetshootr
New member
The most addictive and destructive drug in the world is legal and it's use is being cut back without a ban. Matter of fact, it brings in a ton of tax revenue and because it's legal, gangbangers don't bother trying to earn a living selling it. So if all drugs are treated like tobacco and alcohol, we'd kill several birds with one stone and we also wouldn't have to subsidize most of the people now in prison.
Stop using
This is where abstinence is good. Since the govt funds their wars on this income [Iran contra, Ollie North, Iraqi oil, poppies in Afghanistan] and turns their backs when it is being smuggled in through the southern borders. Yes the winners are govt and cartels. Cut them off. People who consume the stuff are just giving more money to the Beast, so the can buy more countries. The war on drugs was a scheme to do away with all the competition. It makes it worse. They want us stoned and at those concerts so we don't know what really is going on with our freedoms. We have to change our paradigm, our way of thinking, that's the hardest part. Can we?
It's amazing, the more people are educated the harder it is to introduce new ideas.
If tyranny and oppression come, it will be in the Guise of fighting a foreign enemy.
James Madison
This is where abstinence is good. Since the govt funds their wars on this income [Iran contra, Ollie North, Iraqi oil, poppies in Afghanistan] and turns their backs when it is being smuggled in through the southern borders. Yes the winners are govt and cartels. Cut them off. People who consume the stuff are just giving more money to the Beast, so the can buy more countries. The war on drugs was a scheme to do away with all the competition. It makes it worse. They want us stoned and at those concerts so we don't know what really is going on with our freedoms. We have to change our paradigm, our way of thinking, that's the hardest part. Can we?
It's amazing, the more people are educated the harder it is to introduce new ideas.
If tyranny and oppression come, it will be in the Guise of fighting a foreign enemy.
James Madison