US take note: This is how you fight the War on Drugs

I have yet to read about alcoholics killing their mothers for a few bucks for more booze.
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That's because alcohol is nowhere near as expensive as hard drugs are. You can get a fifth of vodka for as cheap as $10 vs. a gram of heroin that costs about $100 (I stopped doing this a while ago so don't try to preach to me about it). Keeping drugs illegal inflates the prices a lot, if they were legal it wouldn't be like this.

I have seen what happens to a friend when he trys to resist taking 2 mg of a methadone type drug. He starts to feel hot and sweat begins to pour from his body. He feels sick and weak.....light headed. His body cramps. This from 1/4 the full dose as he has weened himself down painfully and over much time. The differences between pot and alcohol compared to the hard core drugs is night and day.
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You have obviously never seen real alcohol withdrawl, it can get much worse than any other drug, even methadone.
 
American drug policy...

Is based on racism...


http://youtube.com/results?search_query=Hooked,+why+they+are+illegal


Just like gun control, drugs were made illegal because at that time America didn't like non-whites to carry on their lives the way they want. If you legalize/decriminalize drugs and focus on bigger crimes like rape, murder, and human trafficking it tends to have better results on what issues to take care of. It's good to see though that states are finally passing legislation to tolerate cannabis at least for medical use, regardless of what the DEA says.


Epyon
 
Murder! Insanity! Death!

Killerdrug.jpg




Stuff like this is how the public was convinced that drugs should be illegal.
 
so theyre going to execute some people for selling drugs? i bet they still have drugs there. how does that work any better than overcrowding all of our prisons and wasting large amounts of money? i bet executing those people costs less than free room and board here in the US:)

edit: tibu i forgot my sarcasm quotes
 
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It's pretty fun to use :D:):p;):eek::cool: when talking about killing drug users as punishment, until it's one of your own family that is getting killed.
 
Better yet stop telling people what they can and can't do with their own bodies.
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Fine, as long as I can split your head open wit a 45 and have no legal troubles at all when you break into my house in a drugged up daze.
 
Fine, as long as I can split your head open wit a 45 and have no legal troubles at all when you break into my house in a drugged up daze.
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Sure, long as I can split your head open wit a 40 and have no legal troubles at all when you break into my house in a drunken stupor.
 
I can split your head open wit a 40 and have no legal troubles at all when you break into my house in a drunken stupor.
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I would expect that.



I think booze and hard drugs are not even in the same realm and should not be compared. I have never had a 5th of Jack make me hallicinate or give me flashbacks years later. I have never had a bottle of Grand Mariner make me steal from family and friends, to purchase that next bottle. Alcohol has never made me prostitute myself for that next shot. So, you want people to be able to do what they want with their bodies. I agree, to a point. People should be able to do what they want, with there bodies, as long as it does not hurt other people or infringe on the rights of other people. People who use hard drugs end up as a waste of skin, because they abuse the rights of others and become a drain on the system at large until they die..

Wonder why the Libertarian party has a problem of being recognized on a national level? This is it.
 
Dust Monkey,

How many have you seen who were addicted to alcohol/nicotine who were unable to get some when having a fit? I've seen some pretty crazy behavior from people having a nic fit but cigarettes are available and cheap, so a those people never get to that point.

If addicts could get drugs that were cheap, safe, and available they wouldn't be breaking into anyone's house, why take the risk when you can simply go to the pharmacy without risk of meeting the business end of a shotgun? The Swiss have done some very interesting things regarding drugs, among them they have a program where addicts can get safe drugs administered to them in a sterile environment, not so much that they'll get massive highs but also not so little that they'll crash. They need to already be addicts and have to agree not to commit any crimes while on the program, in the cities where it had been done the rates of crime plummeted. It was tried in 1 city and after a year it was to be reevaluated to determine the effectiveness of it. After only 6 months the program was so successful they decided to expand it from 1 city to 17 cities.

Not that I think a govt giving our drugs is necessarily the best idea but it's less harmful and costly than throwing them in jail.

Also, about why the LP has been a spectacular failure, I can say with certainty that this issue is not the reason why. As a former party member I can attest to their general incompetence keeping them from succeeding:D
 
Wonder why the Libertarian party has a problem of being recognized on a national level? This is it.
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Because of people like you who are opposed to rational arguments for ending the drug war -- arguments based on facts and statistics and the Constitution rather than emotions and anecdotes?

Let's start with some basic questions.

Can you form a principled argument (other than "because the SCOTUS says so, it's true by default") for the constitutionality of drug laws? Hint... if you don't consider the 18th amendment, your argument is woefully inadequate.

Would drug-related violence drop dramatically as gangs lose their main revenue stream and as drug dealers lose their enormous economic incentives to protect their product?

Would other crimes decrease as police are retasked with preventing and invetigating real crimes rather than potential precursor crimes like drug-dealing and possession?

Were drug laws passed because of legitimate criminal and sociological research, or were they the result of emotional scare-mongering?

How many drugs on the DEA's drug schedule were specifically mentioned in Congressional legislation?

To whom is the DEA accountable regarding the drugs it chooses to ban?
 
I have seen what happens to a friend when he trys to resist taking 2 mg of a methadone type drug. He starts to feel hot and sweat begins to pour from his body. He feels sick and weak.....light headed. His body cramps. This from 1/4 the full dose as he has weened himself down painfully and over much time.
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I have seen the same thing with alcoholics, I saw it in the mirror.
What you are describing is pre-DTs and we uninvented them. Come back when you can describe the tremors and the throwing up blood, ahh the memories.

I have never seen a drug addict kill his family or rob there house I have seen that behavior in alcoholics though, it all depends on which circles you run in
Two drunken cousins recently tried to kill each other during an argument over which was older

The comparison of alcohol to "hard drugs" is a valid comparison int hat they both have the same physical, mental and emotional destructive and addictive effects with long chronic use.
 
rather than potential precursor crimes like drug-dealing and possession?
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I almost sh*t myself laughing at that statement. Clearly, books and statistics are more amusing than reality.

I'll just say this, nearly every single one of you in the "legalize eveything" crowd point to the fact that alcohol kills more people than drugs.
So, if you guys get your way, you now have exponentially more lethal and addictive drugs available to more people, on top of alcohol.

So, logically, wouldn't there be an exponential increase in deaths, child deformities, insurance/medical costs, etc. All so you feel better that people can now "do as they please." And BTW, drug addicts are still going to be broke, and are still going to commit crimes to get money to buy those drugs, legal or otherwise.

I'm honestly happy you people don't make the laws.
 
I think booze and hard drugs are not even in the same realm and should not be compared.
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Well you are wrong. The biggest difference is the price.

I have never had a 5th of Jack make me hallicinate
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I have seen it happen. One of my friends went into detox in a hospital and while she was there she told me: that all the hospital staff and her roomate were working with the mafia and planning to kill her, that her bed had moved from the floor to the wall and that voices kept calling her name.

I guess you've never heard of DT's huh?

I bet you have never had a 5th of Jack give you seizure either, but it doesn't mean that it doesn't happen.

give me flashbacks years later.
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I have tripped over 150 times in my life on many different psychedelics including some of the most powerful ones known to man. I have never had a flashback or anything close to it. Neither has anyone I know. They can happen but they are extemely rare.

Just because you heard it in dare, doesn't make it true. The only people allowed to research drugs in the US work for the government ministry of truth NIDA, and are a joke in the scientific community. This is where the government gets all their "research" from.

I have never had a bottle of Grand Mariner make me steal from family and friends, to purchase that next bottle.
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I have also seen people do this.
 
If you guys want to sit here and tell TFL members that alcohol is in the same ball park as meth you are delusional. Yes both are a problem when abused. The problem is the hard core drugs will hook many more per capita that try recreational us of them. When someone describes the high from smoking crack as equivalent to having an orgasm it cannot be legalized. If legalized it will make booze look like child's play. My point is if made legal, unlike alcohol which can have an ultra high rate of recreational use without addiction, the hardcore drugs will addict more than it doesn't.

One summer I drank a 6 pack almost everyday while school was out (yes illegally underage and wrong). When my senior year started I only drank on Friday and Saturday nights while on the prowl for gals and only when I wasn't the designated driver the day. No sweats, cramps, vomiting, ......addiction. I don't think the same is possible with heroine, meth, etc.

My proposal of poisoning the supply of illegal drugs has two bases. First to act as the ultimate deterrent to new users. I promise you that I will never try that fish that if cooked improperly kills you.......not even if you pay me to try it. So it will deter the next generation. Second it will eventually eliminate those hardcore addicts who after being warned of the potential danger still use.

Unlike alcohol guys the hardcores have very little rectreational use. They just addict to quickly and severely. Since you can never stop the supply we must stop the demand.
 
I guess I'm as messed up as you Threegun. I didn't have any issues with your suggestion or response.
BTW, Equating alcohol prohibition and nascar with illegal drugs is one of the dumbest things I'm read all week. What legal enterprise has illegal drugs spurned? Let's see, methadone clinics, drug rehab centers, aids clinics, addicted baby departments in hospitals. Yea, I can see how they equate.
I can't stand nascar by the way, but I do see it as a positive that came out of prohibition.
 
Equating alcohol prohibition and nascar with illegal drugs is one of the dumbest things I'm read all week. What legal enterprise has illegal drugs spurned? Let's see, methadone clinics, drug rehab centers, aids clinics, addicted baby departments in hospitals. Yea, I can see how they equate.
I can't stand nascar by the way, but I do see it as a positive that came out of prohibition.
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Not being able to get the gist of the comment makes you the one of the dumbest posters here then
The point is the end of prohibition ( see the '33 reference)was also the end of the alcohol equivalent of the street level pusher.
It also ended the alcohol equivalent of the meth lab and made alcohol a safer less potent less dangerous drug through government regulation, which was paid for by the taxes generated by the sale of legal alcohol.
That those street level pushers and mules had to find more honest work was a plus

Get it genius. I was not equating NASCAR and illegal drugs
Now go back and reread the comment AND the comment that it was in response to
RIF ,dude, RIF
 
Not being able to get the gist of the comment makes you the one of the dumbest posters here then
The point is the end of prohibition ( see the '33 reference)was also the end of the alcohol equivalent of the street level pusher.
It also ended the alcohol equivalent of the meth lab and made alcohol a safer less potent less dangerous drug through government regulation, which was paid for by the taxes generated by the sale of legal alcohol.
That those street level pushers and mules had to find more honest work was a plus

Get it genius. I was not equating NASCAR and illegal drugs
Now go back and reread the comment AND the comment that it was in response to
RIF ,dude, RIF
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Joab,
If you believe that legalizing drugs will spurn and industry equivalent to nascar using your own words it
makes you the one of the dumbest posters here then
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Let's see I attacked your comment, you attacked me personally. And you call me dumb.:rolleyes::rolleyes:


Awaiting the mods to roll in and separate us....................................
 
if you think that the NASCAR comment was the relevant part of the post then my comment stands
And don't hide behind the third grade "I attacked your words not you" crap

Awaiting your admission that you did not take the time to think before posting
 
Joab, The difference is in the power of each to addict. Alcohol can be used without addiction the others cannot. Sure there are many many alcoholics who were addicted but the vast majority aren't. I'm telling you right now that if you drank a 6 pack a day for three weeks then stopped chances are no problem. If you inject yourself with heroin every day for three weeks and stop you would get sweats,cramps, sick to your stomach, etc the only way to stop them is another dose. They just aren't in the same universe. It would be like comparing an m-80 to a moab.


If the meths and heroins are legalized you will remove the crimes associated with trafficking and add the problems associated with addiction. I guarantee many more folks will be hurt and/or die with the latter. The shortest list in the world is the one full of people who used the hard core drugs for a while without becoming an addicted.
 
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