US Army is recruiting more felons!

I had to write up a waiver request for a new Soldier. Seems as a prank he set a trash can on fire in the schoolyard as a prank. Seems the conviction was sealed by the judge since he was a juvenile but the act was on the FBI computers when a records check was run. The judge had told him he could reply in the negative about his juvenile conviction.

So a lot of waivers may be for juvenile acts where the person learned thier lesson and did not do it again.
 
Whats wrong with taking a non-violent felon, in prison for 10yrs on insurance fraud and saying "10 yrs in here or 7 years military" and letting them choose?
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I like to think of my service to this country is honorable and patriotic, not something that could be given to a felon as punishment. If a man belongs in prison, he belongs in prison not guarding my 6.
 
Why not?.....

In fact, I wouldn't be opposed to certain felons being able to enlist and serve in the military on a probationary basis to earn an early out. If they mess up, they serve the rest of their time in military prisons.

...and the "penal squad" idea isn't a bad one, either.....think "Dirty Dozen"-type missions....
 
Maybe the "old school" Army with NCOs who were NCOs and "Wall to Wall Counciling" for corrective behavior would be great for someone to turn their life around, but nowadays? lol. I was at the PX the other day, and some dumbass private strolling around in broad daylight with his PT shirt untucked in civilies, walked by 3 NCOs, none of which stopped to make an on the spot correction and I (a friggin' Officer) had to say the "WTF are you thinking"? The Army is going down the crapper.......

I completely disagree with the draft. That is a sure fire way to bring the military's "quality of product" down with a quickness
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lol. You should see some of what we're getting now, especially when you see the CS and CSS units (fortuantly not so much with Combat Arms, yet......).

At least with a draft we'd get a broad cross-section of American society.

And we all know as soon as a draft became a reality, all those people in their SUVs with "Support the Troops" stickers (often next to a "W" sticker), would suddenly be screaming for an end to the war in Iraq.

if they are willing to pay it with military service instead of sitting around sponging off the system then I applaud them
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Yeah, what a great idea. Let's take people with felony convictions, who couldn't buy a weapon in the civilian world; give them automatic weapons and grenade launchers, than put them in an extraordinarily stressful situation where if they screw up it will have massive strategic effects. Great idea. :rolleyes:

Remember when those guys from the 101st went on a rampage and raped that girl, killed her family and than set the house on fire? The ring-leader of that was one of those knuckleheads some recruiter who needed numbers let in. The guy ended up getting discharged for Psyche issues, before the crime came to light, but it was obvious before that he had issues.

Besides the military is already full of people "sponging off the system", waiting to hit their 20, rather than the Kick-Ass & Take Names image the Army would like you to see.

...and the "penal squad" idea isn't a bad one, either.....think "Dirty Dozen"-type missions
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I assume your volunteering you or your kids to lead them? Or is that for someone else to do?
 
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On one side, this is a chance for someone to turn their life around.
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Thats my personal take. I knew quite a few people when I was in the Navy who had some rocky pasts (myself included :o <-- nothing violent and no felonies though) to include drug use, and various other crimes (not personally aware of any that were felons, but I never asked.) Also keep in mind, you can pretty easily become a felon and not have commited a violent crime. All the poeple I met who like myself had minor records due to general stupidity/rebeliousness, etc were all good guys, and had straightened themselves out 100% as far as I could tell.

That said, I'll admit I'm not keen on convicted rapists, child molesters and other violent criminals being in the military, as I feel they likely have some serious issues, and are much less likely to change, but that doesnt mean many dont, and I dont think it's right for me to say none of them should get a second chance. I'll say a 2 time felon (violentor not) is right out IMHO though. You have pretty well proven you dont plan on changing, since you committed a second felony (and I mean 2 seperate crimes, not someone who got,say,a state felony for drugs, then got out, and was immediatley re-imprisoned on a federal felony for the exact same event. And yes, at does and has happened to people).

For example, in several of the Marine sex crime cases, the offender was a teenager involved in consensual sex with another underage teen. In one Army case, a 13-year-old who threw a match into his school locker was charged with arson and had to receive a felony waiver six years later.

"Waivers are used judiciously and granted only after a thorough review," said Pentagon spokesman Lt. Col. Jonathan Withington.
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These are the kinds of people I dont think are likely a problem at all, and the case by case basis they do is the way to go. I'm fairly confident they real BG's get weeded out when the circumstances of the crime are reviewed. I think the whole thing is a little hyped and sensationalized as a standard MSM scare tactic to grab attention.
 
Yep, the military is forced to take a lot of folks who would not make the grade in peace time. I have a big problem with a violent felon serving in the US military.

For months the local sex offender registry showed an offender living in the barracks at Ft. Sill. There is some indication that gang bangers are joining the military for the weapons training.

About 25 percent of recruits who did not finish high school fail to make it through basic training. We need a draft now.

US Army
Retired EOD M/Sgt.
 
If we do go to a draft, based on my earlier post:

1. We have to get rid of the exemptions/ safe deployments/ cushy deals that were easily gotten by the influent or influential.

2. If we are going to have a long term committment as we do in Iraq and Afghanistan - we need a declaration of war - not some wussy maybe we will use force declaration as we have now or in VietNam. If we go to war, we go to war and no futzing around.
 
This is hardly anything new. Court appointed service has been happening for decades. A lot of people end up serving to avoid a felony conviction which is no different than an actual felon serving.

That is why I have always scoffed a little when people revere the military as if it was a group of perfect people...heros one and all. Best and brightest in not always the case. Anyone that has served can argue all they like and become indignant at this statement but they know it is true. A lot of the people I served with in the military were exemplary men and women, but just as many were people I would not trust to baby sit my dog and would not leave my wallet lying out around.
 
Wow, PBP...I just have to let that one go.
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Sorry, it may not be a popular thing to say but it is the reality of the military. I went to basic training with the Mississippi Buddy Platoon. This group of twenty guys consisted of over a dozen guys that suspended a felony conviction by going into the military. Some of the felonies were pretty serious stuff. I remember one of the guys bragging about how it was either do four years here or ten years hard time for raping his cousin.

The good side is the military does a half way decent job of weeding out a lot of these guys (and some guys do take advantage of the second chance and change their lives) but the occasional bad apple still gets through. Just look at the recent embarrassing situations that have been blamed on "rogue servicemen and women."

When all is said and done, soldiers are just people and some people are not good people. They do not issue halos with the uniforms.
 
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If the Army was all nice boys and girls there would not have been a need for me, your friendly neighborhood CID. (Criminal Investigation Division, felony crimes only) (That was years ago, but hey, most of my cases were Army, not just people who wandered onto post and committed a crime)

(second thought about 1/3 military, 1/3 family members and 1/3 civilians on post).

The military members were always the serious stuff, rape, murder and so forth, most of the rest were theft related.
 
If the Army was all nice boys and girls there would not have been a need for me, your friendly neighborhood CID.
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Yup, I was 96B up until the end of the first Gulf War then switched over to s upport position for CID...doing mostly interviews. Talk about becoming very unpopular very fast.
The military members were always the serious stuff, rape, murder and so forth, most of the rest were theft related.
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Yup again. I have never understood the need to try and place the military on a pedestal and ignore this reality.

As you probably already know, when I was in, numbers showed that serious violent crimes actually occurred on base at a higher per capita rate than off base. Tons of theft, tons of vandalism, tons of assualt, and a whole lot of rape. :(
 
We have been doing this for years....

I went into the service at a time when there were still draftees serving. In those days it was quite common for a young man who had gotten in a bit of trouble to be offered jail or service by the judge. Not murders or rapes or armed robbery mind you, but lesser, although still fairly serious offences.

And by and large, the service was a good thing for most of those boys. Most of them straightened up, and some even became men to be proud of. Some of those who couldn't or wouldn't straighten up wound up in Leavenworth, and some wound up out with a bad conduct discharge.

PlayboyPenguin is entirely correct, the guys in the service are not all angels, nor always the best and the brightest. There are some there, but there are those who are not, as well. I do not say this to disparage our service men and women. I served. My children are surrently serving as well. I say it because it is the truth.

Suggest you read Kipling, and remember what he says about "Plaster Saints".
 
The armed forces need the bodies
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the problem is there arent enough volunteering, so the recruiters are forced to sign up any one they can.
the DOD spends millions to teach troops how to read and write at a high school level. didnt they know these defecits before they committed to training the person in a specialized field?
same is true for people that couldnt hope to pass the army's weight and fitness standards. they are enlisted and given 6 mos to get in shape. at least half wash out but get extended benefits just for trying. lots of money there too. why not make em get in shape first?
because the recruiter's career depends on recruiting! Doesnt matter how long they last.
so its not at all surprising weve got felons enlisting. I would wager that the guys with criminal records are much more motivated to succeed (and stay out of jail) than most of their "classmates"
Im speaking from 10 yrs experience providing medical care in the Army.
JMHO
tom
 
I keep reading a bunch of "older" guys writing about how the Service changed people back in the day, etc, etc, etc..... And I am in no way questioning the validity of that.

BUT you keep missing that, the Army you once knew is gone.

Basic is laughably easy, PT standards are a joke, discipline is long gone and why bother enforcing standards when you can "pencil whip" it?

The best thing we could do is bring back the draft and re-instate the Spec 5,6,7 & 8 so that people who don't want to be NCOs & leaders can still make rank and pay but don't have to be forced into leadership positions. Instead we takie some great technician and make him a crappy NCO just so he can get a pay raise; and thereby you are diluting the NCO corps.
 
The best thing we could do is bring back the draft and re-instate the Spec 5,6,7 & 8 so that people who don't want to be NCOs & leaders can still make rank and pay but don't have to be forced into leadership positions. Instead we takie some great technician and make him a crappy NCO just so he can get a pay raise; and thereby you are diluting the NCO corps.
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^^ This. A thousand times this. Though I don't know about anything but E-6 or so.

EDIT: Because E-6 actually makes for decent pay, and actually isn't a horrible retirement, for somebody who isn't in a leadership position. I can't see paying somebody more than that that isn't in charge of something. And it would be a whole let better than our current system, where you have the choice of being forced into a leadership position or kicked out after ten years. I knew a couple excellent technicians who honestly just couldn't promote to sergeant (and you wouldn't want them to) who got the boot under that policy.
 
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While I hope that most people choose the military for patriotic reasons, the thruth of the matter is some people just have no clue what they want to do witht their lives yet so they see it as an opportunity to make some money and see the world. Its no wonder why enlistment goes way down then there is an actual war going on. Some people join because they don't have the funds to go to college. Others join to straighten out their lives or to get a fresh start. For me, I just went straight into college.

I have alot of respect for those who join for patriotic reasons. It is a huge sacrifice of time and earning potential.
 
+1 on both of Glenn's posts, well said.

+1 also on making tech positions ones that can be a carreer.
 
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