urban defense carbine

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hornetguy

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For lack of a better term... I was thinking that I might be interested in a carbine that would work for home defense and general plinking type stuff, without going the AR route, and its associated expense/price tag.
I was thinking something like the old Marlin camp gun in .45 acp. I saw a few of the "tec" carbines at the gunshow yesterday, and they looked interesting, but I'm sort of out of the loop as to what's currently available.
I have heard of the Keltec sub-2K, but don't know of any others.

Any suggestions, comments, first-hand experience would be welcomed, as this is just sort of a brain-storming session.

I already have an SKS that I really like, but was thinking more something that I could train the wife with, that would be more useful than her .38 snubby.
 
Another ideal is one of those little Lever action rifles in 38/357, Marlin, Henry, etc.

It will suit your purposes, plus it shoots the same ammo as your wife's stubby.

Also 38s are relatively cheap too shoot. Especially if you reload.
 
Yes, I've been reloading and casting for about 40 years...

The small leverguns are a good thought, but are still larger than what I was thinking. I'm not dismissing them entirely, as that may, in fact, be what I settle on, but I was thinking more along the lines of a smaller, semi-auto type platform.
 
but I was thinking more along the lines of a smaller, semi-auto type platform.
Click to expand...

Maybe a Beretta CX4? HK USC (pricey)? Heck, maybe a Hi Point carbine. Lots of folks seem to like them. The old M1 carbine would also be a solid choice IMO, if you get a USGI one.

Jason
 
yes, the High Point was what I was thinking about when I mentioned the "tec" type carbines I saw at the show.
They didn't seem too bad, other than the limited magazine capacity. As much a "big bore" fan as I am, I'm also thinking that from a carbine length barrel, the 9mm would be pretty potent. Recoil would more than likely be a non-issue... as in probably non-existent.
Ammo costs would be WAY more manageable..:D

Speaking of leverguns, I saw a Puma in .454 that the owner would have let go for a measly 750 bucks or so. :eek: I was proud of myself for not laughing out loud. He also had a Marlin 1895 in 45-70 for around 500 bucks.. let me see... which would I choose???
 
The Marlin camp, in 9mm, would be a good choice.
They use a S&W double stack mag and are usually priced less than $400.
The .45acp version is much pricier, for some reason or other.
 
hi point makes carbines in 9mm .40 cal and .45acp. look good. low priced. i have shot the 9mm and .45 acp accurate.

just a thought.
 
Why not an AK47 or similar? They can be fed very cheaply.

I think they are technically rifles but they aren't any longer than most AR's and you can get them in smaller caliber than the 7.62 for less recoil. It is a 5.45x39 and can be bought for close to $0.11/rnd and mags for $10 or something like that. Very inexpensive to shoot though likely not able to be found locally.
 
This is the ultimate,,,

The FN P90 PDW (Personal Defense Weapon).

50 rounds of a very zippy cartridge,,,
This should give anyone the firepower they need.

And, if we are ever invaded by life sucking aliens,,,
Lt. Col. John Shepard has already proven their effectiveness.

But seriously,,,
My LGS had a civilian version,,,
I handled it and it did not feel like a toy gun.

It was definitely pricey ($1,295.00) but not outrageously so,,,
I've seen many people pay much more for a custom 1911 or 9mm pistol.

Compact, high capacity, shoulder fired, & from a reliable company,,,
What more could a person want to defend hearth and home.

Aarond
 
Are you talking home defense or urban defense? For home defense nothing beats a short barrel 12 ga with #2 or #4 shot(less penetrating of walls than buckshot). If you are talking about urban defense with ranges up to 200 yds then a semi-auto carbine makes more sense. I am not sure what I would pick. I recently had a chance to purchase a used Beretta CX4 in 9mm at a good price and grabbed it. I wanted a 9mm carbine (cheap ammo) that would eject on the left side so my choices were limited. I mounted a red dot sight on it and have been very pleased. It is a blast to shoot and is accurate enough for man sized targets out to 200 yds. If you are wanting somthing out beyond 200 yds then you are going beyond a pistol cartridge and in to the true rifle area.
 
I'm also thinking that from a carbine length barrel, the 9mm would be pretty potent.
Click to expand...

I'm just guessing, but I would imagine 9x19 out of a carbine would be along the lines of .38 Super or .357 Sig out of a handgun. Again, just a guess.

The FN P90 PDW (Personal Defense Weapon).

50 rounds of a very zippy cartridge,,,
This should give anyone the firepower they need.

And, if we are ever invaded by life sucking aliens,,,
Lt. Col. John Shepard has already proven their effectiveness.

But seriously,,,
My LGS had a civilian version,,,
I handled it and it did not feel like a toy gun.

It was definitely pricey ($1,295.00) but not outrageously so,,,
I've seen many people pay much more for a custom 1911 or 9mm pistol.

Compact, high capacity, shoulder fired, & from a reliable company,,,
What more could a person want to defend hearth and home.
Click to expand...

This just goes to show how subjective some of this stuff is. I had the exact opposite impression of the P90. As a matter of fact, I distinctly remember saying to myself after handling one the first time, "thing feels like a Mattel gun". I didn't care for it at all. I'm not real big on the caliber either, so it was a definite "no" for me. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

Jason
 
Are you talking home defense or urban defense?
Click to expand...

um... yes.

I was just thinking of something my wife would not hesitate to pick up if she heard something/someone go bump in the night. (and I want a new toy, but that goes without saying)
She won't even consider the fully loaded hi-cap Mossberg... it's too heavy and too difficult to figure out... and it kicks too much. It's more my choice.
In case of "urban" or neighborhood crises, I'd go for the sks, more than likely.
I'd like to find something she'd feel comfortable enough with to pick up and use, if necessary.
I didn't know you could still find camp carbines... I might have to turn the dogs loose to find one. A 9mm one of those might be the berries...
 
Hello Jason_G

Yeppers,,,
It's all about personal perception.

But I consider that a good thing,,,
What would happen to free enterprise,,,
If we all agreed on one gun as the ultimate. ;)

I just really liked that 50 round magazine,,,
And a high speed small caliber round.

There is one school of thought that for urban defense,,,
A good .22 LR semi would be the best weapon,,,
The idea is light weight with high capacity,,,
And tons of available ammunition.

I'm not sure I would be comfy with a 10/22 for home defense,,,
But with sufficient 25 round magazines I wouldn't feel completely outgunned.

Later my friend.

Aarond
 
Yeppers,,,
It's all about personal perception.

But I consider that a good thing,,,
What would happen to free enterprise,,,
If we all agreed on one gun as the ultimate.
Click to expand...

No argument here. ;)

Jason
 
For rural defense a levergun in 30-30 ain't a bad choice. I like the pistol caliber rifles better for urban defense though. You can find good deals on 30-30's but the pistol caliber rifles are too pricey for what you get in my opinion.

I like the "IDEA" of a pistol caliber semi auto, but unfortunately no one makes one that I would recommend. Besides good softpoint ammo in 223 has proven to be quite effecticve without any of the overpenetration problems you get from full size rifle calibers, and even pistol calibers.

The Ruger Mini-14 ain't a bad choice, but AR's are selling cheaper than Mini-14's now and I can't think of a single good reason to pick one over an AR. Good lightweight, accurate AR's are available now at under $600. At close range a softpoint 223 round is devastating and will not overpenetrate any worse than pistol calibers from handguns.

I've tried every way in the world to justify anything else, but either a good shotgun with proper ammo, or just go ahead and get an AR and load it with proper ammo and be done with it. Everything else just comes up short.
 
The following is merely one mans opinion, and is not based on any experience, but instead, is based on my view of "what seems right":

Urban defense? A short-barrel 20-gauge shotgun. If you want to do more than just defense, nothing beats an AR, especially if it's got a 14.5-inch barrel. It's light, fast to bring up to your target, reliable, easy to fix/get parts for, and ammo is plentiful and relatively cheap. Granted, the accuracy generally suffers beyond 150 yards due to the short barrel, but considering it would be used for "urban defense", you're probably not going to be shooting much farther than that anyway.

If you don't like the 30-round mag hanging out of the gun, use 20-rounders, but you gotta carry more of 'em while you're "out and about" if you want anywhere near the same load-out. US troops carry 210 rounds (seven 30-round mags). To equal that, you'd need 11 20-round mags. That's something to consider as well.
 
aarond... your suggestion might be a good one, I just can't research it here at work.. I'll check it out this evening. Price IS an issue for me, however. That's why I have a Mossberg instead of a Benelli or Beretta recoil operated autoloader. (probably explains my Ford Focus wagon, instead of a fully loaded 3/4 ton Ford or Dodge pickup, too :o But I regain a small amount of "cool" because my daily ride is a Suzuki DL650 :D)
There are a lot of guns I'd own if I could justify the expense, but reality sets in, usually sounding a LOT like my wife of 28yrs.. :)

A good 10/22 with hi-cap mags would be do-able, too.. not ideal, but if she'll use it, it's WAY better than screaming for help.
 
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