UPS Rip Off
- Thread starter Shotgun693
- Start date
I work for UPS as a package handler and sorter. I find the majority of the comments made here amusing and show a complete lack of any real knowledge on how UPS handles packages.
Second, I think another poster mentioned this, we don't have time nor give a damn what might be in some random persons package. At my hub we unload, sort, and load back into trucks upwards of 25,000 packages in about 3 and a half hours daily. I don't even look at the addresses on any of them. All I care about is the city and the sort code printed on the shipping label.
People working at UPS have been known to steal (and they almost always get caught). But trust me, their more interested in snagging a newly released Harry Potter novel or the newest iphone to sell on the internet than trying to figure out if some random package might have a gun in it.
Second, I think another poster mentioned this, we don't have time nor give a damn what might be in some random persons package. At my hub we unload, sort, and load back into trucks upwards of 25,000 packages in about 3 and a half hours daily. I don't even look at the addresses on any of them. All I care about is the city and the sort code printed on the shipping label.
People working at UPS have been known to steal (and they almost always get caught). But trust me, their more interested in snagging a newly released Harry Potter novel or the newest iphone to sell on the internet than trying to figure out if some random package might have a gun in it.
chris in va
New member
Huh. My local gun store is also a UPS shipper. I recently shipped a handgun to an FFL in another state and they charged $14, UPS ground.
Mr Wesson,
THANK YOU!! I was waiting for someone to say what you said. UPS policy and what is legal are 2 different things. I had a number of FFL's including smith and Wesson themselves tell me to ship my guns UPS ground and do NOT declare what it is. Smith and Wesson told me by declaring its a gun, raises an interest in the package and the possibility of it getting stolen increases.
I'm not telling anyone to do something they are not comfortable with. But to me, spending close to $100 to ship a gun is absolutely crazy! There is nothing wrong with UPS ground.
-George
THANK YOU!! I was waiting for someone to say what you said. UPS policy and what is legal are 2 different things. I had a number of FFL's including smith and Wesson themselves tell me to ship my guns UPS ground and do NOT declare what it is. Smith and Wesson told me by declaring its a gun, raises an interest in the package and the possibility of it getting stolen increases.
I'm not telling anyone to do something they are not comfortable with. But to me, spending close to $100 to ship a gun is absolutely crazy! There is nothing wrong with UPS ground.
-George
Double Naught Spy
New member
Sorry, but I don't buy the logic. If they can figure out what random package has Harry Potter novels or iPhones, then they darned sure can figure out which packages have guns, and have done so in the past.
Sure, they "almost" always get caught, but that doesn't bring back many of the stolen goods.
Frank Ettin
Administrator
Just remember that Mr. Wesson also said:l98ster said:
Mr. Wesson said:
When one fails to (1) disclose that the package contains a handgun (or a gun, if shipping FedEx); and (2) ships ground instead of overnight, he has violated the UPS or FedEx tariff. That is part of the contract of shipment. By violating the contract, the shipper lets the carrier off the hook on any insurance claim. So don't expect any coverage if your shipment is lost or damaged.
It might make some sense to assume the risk of loss of a $400 gun to save $60 on shipping. But if it's a $1,000 gun? It's up to you to draw your own line.
Because generally speaking, those aren't "random" packages. When those Harry Potter books or new iphones (and those are just two examples I'm using of a popular product) are released, hundreds of thousands of them are shipped at the same time. UPS knows the release dates as well and briefs all of us before the start of a shift so as to expect what are known as "drop shipments" (a large amount of packages of the same item sent to the same person or company) or a larger than normal volume of packages to sort that day. It doesn't take a genius to figure out which packages have one of those two items in them. 99% of the time, those are the packages and goods that would be thieves target.
This is much different than a somebody shipping one random handgun in a random box. I hate to break up your conspiracy theory, but no one is looking at every single package trying to figure out whats inside.
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Exactly my point I have sent guns back to S&W,Kel-tec and Phoenix arms this way but I would have serious second thoughts about sending a $1000+ firearm.
No matter what you decide pack it tight and try to make it look like any other package.
I also would look into addressing the package to a person at the company rather than the company's name.. if the front of the box says Smith and Wesson it doesn't take a genius to figure out a gun is probably in there.
Frank Ettin
Administrator
Where did you get that ridiculous idea? If you include the receive or frame, it's still a gun. The receiver or frame is the firearm under federal law.rbursek said:
These are both very good points. Another thing people can but often fail to do is to use "declared value" on their shipment. By doing this, it puts your package into a secured shipping status and is processed separately from other packages and placed into a secured and sealed shipping bag before being loaded and shipped. They're always kept segregated from the other packages and are generally one of the last things loaded onto the truck or aircraft and always by the person working in the secured area that processed them.
As to the second quote, when a package is shipped in the above manner, both the shippers name and address and the recipient's name is usually blacked out with a permanent marker on the shipping label by those that process the secure or "high value" (as they're often referred to at work) packages.
this almost happened to me. On top of it they wanted me to drive down to the regional office (as in, not 15 minutes away,but an hour and a half away) and of course pay for my own packing materials.
instead i payed my FFL $20. it would have been $20 in gas just to get to their warehouse.
instead i payed my FFL $20. it would have been $20 in gas just to get to their warehouse.
Uhhhhhh.......Shipment of a handgun by common carrier (that's UPS or Fedex, NOT USPS) has a few legal requirements that everyone seems to have overlooked:
A nonlicensee may not transfer a firearm to a non-licensed resident of another State. A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. The Postal Service recommends that long guns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun.[18 U.S.C. 1715, 922(a)(3), 922(a)(5) and 922 (a)(2)(A)]
A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]
A nonlicensee may not transfer a firearm to a non-licensed resident of another State. A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. The Postal Service recommends that long guns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun.[18 U.S.C. 1715, 922(a)(3), 922(a)(5) and 922 (a)(2)(A)]
A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]
Walklightly
Moderator
Custom, or warranty work?
Why did you have to pay for it?
What company, besides Taurus do you have to pay shipping?
Wonder if they would have been willing to sell you a disassembled rifle, shotgun or handgun with out doing the 4473 or the background check--it's only parts, after all. Some FFLs are surprisingly ignorant of the laws dealing with their business.rbursek said:
Let me make a further guess and say that the FFL told you it was legal to ship the firearms from you directly to your son across state lines?
carguychris
New member
IMHO it's more precise to say that the FAQ is substantially dumbed down with respect to the written notice requirement.
You have to give written notice to the common carrier if the shipment is coming from one nonlicensee to another nonlicensee. Such shipments are generally only legal if (a) the recipient is storing the firearm for the sender to pick up at a later date (but the recipient doesn't open the package!), (b) the sender is returning a gun that was legally loaned or rented to him/her, or (c) the sender is legally loaning or renting the gun to the recipient. (The legality of interstate rental or loan of a gun a whole 'nother topic.
)OTOH the following circumstances do not require notice:
- Shipment of a firearm from a nonlicensee to a FFL for the purposes of sale.*
- Shipment of a firearm from a nonlicensee to a manufacturer for repair.
- Shipment of a repaired firearm from a manufacturer to a nonlicensee.
- Shipment of an equivalent replacement firearm from a manufacturer to a nonlicensee if the firearm sent in for repair was too far gone to save!
- Shipment of a legal antique that's not covered by the NFA; these are not "firearms" under the law and are therefore exempt from almost all federal regulations restricting commerce, including the prohibition against mailing handguns.
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