BerettaCougar
New member
XB.
As always.
GOOD POST.
As always.
GOOD POST.
Update on Patricia Konie and Ashton O'Dwyer
- Thread starter XavierBreath
- Start date
MeekAndMild
New member
Wild, I think he's got you on this one. I saw those videotapes and those guys were acting like a motorcycle gang rather than law officers. It kind of goes along with the other tape I saw of a JBT clearing houses, breaking front door window glass with his shotgun.
I've seen the tapes and am all on her side in this, but I'd like to point out a few oddities in the claims.
1) She was being interviewed by newsmen before the cops arrived?????
The film we all saw was taken by a news crew from KTVU in the SF Bay area. This crew was specifically following the California Highway Patrol around and recording their heroic contributions to Katrina relief. How then do we suddenly decide they were on their own and independent of the troops? That they were interviewing folks on their own when the CHiPs "just happened" to show up?
2) She had separated shoulder and broken bones from being body-slammed, but didn't have "treatment" until December 12th?
Sorry, not buying that one!!!! (OK, she had surgery on the 12th. They didn't actually say she didn't have treatment -- they just implied it.)
3) Big thing being made of having been evacuated "ALONE".
Scuze me -- everybody was being evacuated out of state, and in the condition in which they checked IN. Read the stories of bus-loads going over to Texas for examples of 10s of thousands having the same thing done to them.
So how does this become something sinister, or evil????
As long as we're chatting on the subject, though, I've had a question bothering me from the first viewing of the tape.
Mz Konie was tossed onto a truck along with her two dogs.
Never mind whether she got that lil pistol and knife back -----
What happened to the dogs?
Fud
1) She was being interviewed by newsmen before the cops arrived?????
The film we all saw was taken by a news crew from KTVU in the SF Bay area. This crew was specifically following the California Highway Patrol around and recording their heroic contributions to Katrina relief. How then do we suddenly decide they were on their own and independent of the troops? That they were interviewing folks on their own when the CHiPs "just happened" to show up?
2) She had separated shoulder and broken bones from being body-slammed, but didn't have "treatment" until December 12th?
Sorry, not buying that one!!!! (OK, she had surgery on the 12th. They didn't actually say she didn't have treatment -- they just implied it.)
3) Big thing being made of having been evacuated "ALONE".
Scuze me -- everybody was being evacuated out of state, and in the condition in which they checked IN. Read the stories of bus-loads going over to Texas for examples of 10s of thousands having the same thing done to them.
So how does this become something sinister, or evil????
As long as we're chatting on the subject, though, I've had a question bothering me from the first viewing of the tape.
Mz Konie was tossed onto a truck along with her two dogs.
Never mind whether she got that lil pistol and knife back -----
What happened to the dogs?
Fud
Half-bakedAlaska:
South v Maryland, 1856
Riss v City of New York, 1969
Warren v District of Columbia, 1982,
Et cetera.
Any such imaginary suit would be thrown out or overturned on appeal.
Old Fud:
It happened. We must respond to show the .govs that we are mighty pissed. It might help to pursuade them in the future, for good or ill.
Rick
Police have no duty to protect individuals...
South v Maryland, 1856
Riss v City of New York, 1969
Warren v District of Columbia, 1982,
Et cetera.
Any such imaginary suit would be thrown out or overturned on appeal.
Old Fud:
"Sinister?" "Evil?" I need not adopt your terminology of this/these event(s) in order to righteously condemn them and spread news about them throughout the internet and op/ed departments throughout the nation.
It happened. We must respond to show the .govs that we are mighty pissed. It might help to pursuade them in the future, for good or ill.
Rick
Wildalaska
Moderator
.
Bet I could phrase a lawsuit that would beat pre trial dismissal and survive an appeal.
But then again, I prefer to analyze with intellectual neutrality rather than vituperate in a half baked fashion
WildshadesofgrayAlaska
It does that for me as well.
It is absolutely AMAZING how many people are totally ignorant of what happened in NOLA.
I am astounded at some of the responses to this thread. Everything from:
To:
And even:
What the hell is wrong with some of you people? This was a little old lady, IN HER OWN HOME, who was beaten and injured by the police in front of a camera crew (who BTW, did NOTHING to intervene to protect the little old lady being illegally beaten by the cops). This was NATIONAL NEWS, the subject of a lawsuit by the NRA, and hotly debated here EXTENSIVELY.
Yet some of you have the termity to say that you don't "know" anything about the case. Or worse, side with the cops merely because they're LEO.
I hope she sues and wins. Better still, I hope the cops who did this to her get sent to prison for life.
Wild,
As an ex-lawyer maybe you and Handle should get together
could make you some money.
Me, I'm going to fight for the "little people" on this one. Just for the heck of it. Saw the video, thinks that it makes for a great case, and the California LEO's should be hung out to dry and face MS-13 and the Mexican Mafia, as we all have to do while living in the "Left Coast".
I don't know if they've gotten up that far yet.
I do have a question for you, how does a ex-lawyer end up being such a angry gun store owner? I know full well where I went wrong and just became an angry alcoholic, but what is your story?
As you watched the scum of the earth march pass you and are allowed to enter into society, I can see that. Have you seen or been on the crew of the aftermath of a plane being shot down and then recovery? Have you had to walk through the sands that many have done in order to carry out their orders, have you even seen the sun raise over a hill of sand?
You've seen and are angered by mere criminals that you've had to deal with, you've never dealt with those that really want to kill you.
You turned away from that life as I've turned away from my old life also. Yet there is still that bit that stays with us and will forever haunt us.
We're damaged goods in this time and place. We need to put it behind us for the time being (and I've just made a mistake myself tonight) and come back to center, before both of us get to the point that they ban us, as before.
Wayne
As an ex-lawyer maybe you and Handle should get together
could make you some money.Me, I'm going to fight for the "little people" on this one. Just for the heck of it. Saw the video, thinks that it makes for a great case, and the California LEO's should be hung out to dry and face MS-13 and the Mexican Mafia, as we all have to do while living in the "Left Coast".
I don't know if they've gotten up that far yet.
I do have a question for you, how does a ex-lawyer end up being such a angry gun store owner? I know full well where I went wrong and just became an angry alcoholic, but what is your story?
As you watched the scum of the earth march pass you and are allowed to enter into society, I can see that. Have you seen or been on the crew of the aftermath of a plane being shot down and then recovery? Have you had to walk through the sands that many have done in order to carry out their orders, have you even seen the sun raise over a hill of sand?
You've seen and are angered by mere criminals that you've had to deal with, you've never dealt with those that really want to kill you.
You turned away from that life as I've turned away from my old life also. Yet there is still that bit that stays with us and will forever haunt us.
We're damaged goods in this time and place. We need to put it behind us for the time being (and I've just made a mistake myself tonight) and come back to center, before both of us get to the point that they ban us, as before.
Wayne
Well Rob,
It is absolutely AMAZING how you can consider someone ignorant of a topic, then try to use the word "termity" in the same post. Can you please clarify your usage of the word "termity" so that I can either laugh or be insulted.
It is also absolutely AMAZING how you turn me writing that I don't have the specifics of that case into me being totally ignorant of what happened in NOLA. I don't believe everything I hear or see, and I don't know exactly what happened to the little old lady. I have heard people bashing her, I have heard people bashing the crew, and I have heard people bashing the cops.
You are a fool if you generalize and say that just because she's a little old lady that she's completely harmless. If she pulled out a knife and killed a cop, then there would be a post about the tactics of the cop. There is no key or a face to someone that's wrong. If she's wrong, she's wrong-it doesn't matter to me if she's a 25 year old on PCP charging me with a knife, or she's a 95 year old woman who's yelling at me because she was stopped for speeding. I treat everyone with respect, and I do my job to the best of my ability (and I do it well). I am in no way saying that she's wrong in this specific case, again-I don't know all the details. My point is that if the cops were there lawfully and she resisted-oh well, it's unfortunate that she was injured either way.
What I do know is that good cops routinely get a bad rap when they are just doing their job because I (am)have been there. I am not saying there aren't bad cops around, because obviously there are.
Don't put words into my mouth. As I said before, if the cops were wrong they should be dealt with.
TEMERITY....
It is absolutely AMAZING how you can consider someone ignorant of a topic, then try to use the word "termity" in the same post. Can you please clarify your usage of the word "termity" so that I can either laugh or be insulted.
It is also absolutely AMAZING how you turn me writing that I don't have the specifics of that case into me being totally ignorant of what happened in NOLA. I don't believe everything I hear or see, and I don't know exactly what happened to the little old lady. I have heard people bashing her, I have heard people bashing the crew, and I have heard people bashing the cops.
You are a fool if you generalize and say that just because she's a little old lady that she's completely harmless. If she pulled out a knife and killed a cop, then there would be a post about the tactics of the cop. There is no key or a face to someone that's wrong. If she's wrong, she's wrong-it doesn't matter to me if she's a 25 year old on PCP charging me with a knife, or she's a 95 year old woman who's yelling at me because she was stopped for speeding. I treat everyone with respect, and I do my job to the best of my ability (and I do it well). I am in no way saying that she's wrong in this specific case, again-I don't know all the details. My point is that if the cops were there lawfully and she resisted-oh well, it's unfortunate that she was injured either way.
What I do know is that good cops routinely get a bad rap when they are just doing their job because I (am)have been there. I am not saying there aren't bad cops around, because obviously there are.
Don't put words into my mouth. As I said before, if the cops were wrong they should be dealt with.
TEMERITY....
Mike Irwin
Staff
"She had separated shoulder and broken bones from being body-slammed, but didn't have "treatment" until December 12th?
Sorry, not buying that one!!!!"
Back in high schoo I went 2 months between injuring my right wrist and actually finding out that it had been broken in two places.
Sorry, not buying that one!!!!"
Back in high schoo I went 2 months between injuring my right wrist and actually finding out that it had been broken in two places.
K9lwt,
Uhh, Well EXCUUUUSE ME for my typographical errors. Next time I'll just sling accusations while being socially polite and acceptable instead of just being an igerrant idjit...
As for putting words in your mouth, I hate it when people say crap like that. If you didn't say it, or mean it, or intimate it, I wouldn't be able to paraphrase it and YOU WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO RECOGNIZE IT as your words being repeated. So, say what you mean, mean what you say and cut the crap act of being a victim. You aren't, I am not, and neither is anyone else who posts on this forum. People who do this are worse than trolls. Push someones buttons then claim they didn't and are thusly a "victim" whilst knowing EXACTLY what they are doing. COWARDS all of them who do this stunt. You said it, you recognize your words so stop trying to deny them.
As for you being ignorant on the issue, I guess I'll stick to my original words on that. She was in her own home. This wasn't a traffic stop. She wasn't on PCP either. She was in her own home minding her own business.
By what right did the cops invade her home, beat her, confiscate her property and then kidnap her and transport her against her will? If you can answer THAT I'll applaud you. Unfortunately, the answer you'll most likely have is that they were acting under "orders" and trying to arrest her for "her own good and safety".
That doesn't make it legal. That doesn't absolve them from their illegal acts. Yet for some reason, because they wear a badge, YOU defend their actions and vilify Ms. Konie's even though she had done no wrong nor committed any illegal act. Remember, SHE wasn't a criminal nor suspected of being a criminal when all this happened.
Uhh, Well EXCUUUUSE ME for my typographical errors. Next time I'll just sling accusations while being socially polite and acceptable instead of just being an igerrant idjit...
As for putting words in your mouth, I hate it when people say crap like that. If you didn't say it, or mean it, or intimate it, I wouldn't be able to paraphrase it and YOU WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO RECOGNIZE IT as your words being repeated. So, say what you mean, mean what you say and cut the crap act of being a victim. You aren't, I am not, and neither is anyone else who posts on this forum. People who do this are worse than trolls. Push someones buttons then claim they didn't and are thusly a "victim" whilst knowing EXACTLY what they are doing. COWARDS all of them who do this stunt. You said it, you recognize your words so stop trying to deny them.
As for you being ignorant on the issue, I guess I'll stick to my original words on that. She was in her own home. This wasn't a traffic stop. She wasn't on PCP either. She was in her own home minding her own business.
By what right did the cops invade her home, beat her, confiscate her property and then kidnap her and transport her against her will? If you can answer THAT I'll applaud you. Unfortunately, the answer you'll most likely have is that they were acting under "orders" and trying to arrest her for "her own good and safety".
That doesn't make it legal. That doesn't absolve them from their illegal acts. Yet for some reason, because they wear a badge, YOU defend their actions and vilify Ms. Konie's even though she had done no wrong nor committed any illegal act. Remember, SHE wasn't a criminal nor suspected of being a criminal when all this happened.
Really? Guess I'm special then....
MeekAndMild
New member
Pax, you're right of course. I've been thinking about Harry Truman ever since you mentioned him. As William O Douglas said, "The right to be let alone is indeed the beginning of all freedoms."
Here is an interesting heavy discussion about the right to privacy: http://www.cato.org/pubs/policy_report/richman.html
Here is an interesting heavy discussion about the right to privacy: http://www.cato.org/pubs/policy_report/richman.html
Rob,
I am not going to be victimized by anything-certainly not by a rant from a stranger on a forum. Don't give yourself too much credit, you haven't pushed my buttons OR gotten under my skin. I think you need to lighten up just a little.
As far as treating everyone with respect, I think you may have missed my point. I treat everyone with respect in my official LEO duties regardless of the situation. It is their choice to either recognize it, or they can disregard it and contiue to march.
What part of "if the cops were wrong they should be dealt with" do you not understand? If it's the "cops" part-I was referring to the people that forcibly removed her from her home. If it's the "dealt with" part-I was referring to the individuals being brought to justice.
I hope you have put equal blame on Mayor Nagin for saying that the city had the authority to force residents to evacuate. My answer to your question would be that the police were following orders attempting to evacuate as many people as possible. Does this include gaining access to people's homes-yes it does. People were looting, starting fires, and doing other things that were contributing to the tragedy. The police probably took her firearm because people were taking potshots at the helo's, MP's, officers, etc. Do I know for sure-no, but if people were shooting at me I wouldn't be happy about it and I would do everything in my power to make sure it stopped.
"Invade her home" Speak with her in a home while a camera crew was also "invading her home".
"Beat her" Use what was possibly a reasonable amount of force to get her to leave.
"Confiscate her property" Take a firearm from someone who was not going along with the program.
"Kidnap her and transport her against her will" You're right-I think I saw her with a blindfold, leg irons, and handcuffs while being dragged down the street by her hair.
I can understand her wanting to stay under normal circumstances but these were not normal circumstances. The police were not there because they had nothing better to do, this was a unique set of circumstances that called for a unique action plan. This was not just another story of police getting out of control-this was a story of (in my opinion) police trying to do what they thought was right in a unique set of circumstances.
I am not going to be victimized by anything-certainly not by a rant from a stranger on a forum. Don't give yourself too much credit, you haven't pushed my buttons OR gotten under my skin. I think you need to lighten up just a little.
As far as treating everyone with respect, I think you may have missed my point. I treat everyone with respect in my official LEO duties regardless of the situation. It is their choice to either recognize it, or they can disregard it and contiue to march.
What part of "if the cops were wrong they should be dealt with" do you not understand? If it's the "cops" part-I was referring to the people that forcibly removed her from her home. If it's the "dealt with" part-I was referring to the individuals being brought to justice.
I hope you have put equal blame on Mayor Nagin for saying that the city had the authority to force residents to evacuate. My answer to your question would be that the police were following orders attempting to evacuate as many people as possible. Does this include gaining access to people's homes-yes it does. People were looting, starting fires, and doing other things that were contributing to the tragedy. The police probably took her firearm because people were taking potshots at the helo's, MP's, officers, etc. Do I know for sure-no, but if people were shooting at me I wouldn't be happy about it and I would do everything in my power to make sure it stopped.
"Invade her home" Speak with her in a home while a camera crew was also "invading her home".
"Beat her" Use what was possibly a reasonable amount of force to get her to leave.
"Confiscate her property" Take a firearm from someone who was not going along with the program.
"Kidnap her and transport her against her will" You're right-I think I saw her with a blindfold, leg irons, and handcuffs while being dragged down the street by her hair.
I can understand her wanting to stay under normal circumstances but these were not normal circumstances. The police were not there because they had nothing better to do, this was a unique set of circumstances that called for a unique action plan. This was not just another story of police getting out of control-this was a story of (in my opinion) police trying to do what they thought was right in a unique set of circumstances.
Unique set of circumstances. How often do you think that this phrase can be used to control people who don't wish to be controlled, or removed, from their homes.
I have a unique set of circumstances surrounding my life at the moment. To which it involves a now known by me drug addict/dealer and a threat upon my life. Since I have this, by your logic I am okay with going to his place and set my mind free of all anxiety in any way that I am able. Because I think that it is right for me while under these unique set of circumstances.
If I were to do so, I would be in jail faster than it took to dog pile this old lady, take her weapons and remove her from her home, against her will.
If I am unable to do so just because I think it's right because of the unique circumstances that I find myself in, what makes it right for LEO's to do the same?
Real LEO's, respectful of the Rights of the People, would have tipped their hats, bid the lady good day, and moved on to where they were needed.
Wayne