Unusual Brass Finds of the Week
- Thread starter thebrassmonkeys
- Start date
Mike Irwin
Staff
Not an elephant gun, unless the Spanish Army in Cuba was hunting elephants there.
I'm certain that those three cartridges are 11.5x57R Spanish Reformado cartridges.
It was the original cartridge for the Spanish Remington Rolling Block rifles, adopted about 1867.
Quite a few of the rifles and cartridges were sold by Francis Bannerman in the years after the Spanish American War.
US forces captured thousands of rifles and millions of rounds of the ammo when we took Cuba, Puerto Rico, the Philippines, and other Spanish colonies.
I'm certain that those three cartridges are 11.5x57R Spanish Reformado cartridges.
It was the original cartridge for the Spanish Remington Rolling Block rifles, adopted about 1867.
Quite a few of the rifles and cartridges were sold by Francis Bannerman in the years after the Spanish American War.
US forces captured thousands of rifles and millions of rounds of the ammo when we took Cuba, Puerto Rico, the Philippines, and other Spanish colonies.
GunAddict1962
Inactive
351 WIN SL
thebrassmonkeys
New member
People really pulling out the old stuff due to the ammo shortage
had guy bring a box of 1946 Remington 308 win. only have fired and he was most disappointed.
headstamp *R*2*46.
also seeing 1989 and 1993 RORG 556 NATO and 762 Nato
Royal Ordnance Radway Green. V nice brass
Strange the 556 is boxer primed but the 7.62x51 is berdan from same factory
had guy bring a box of 1946 Remington 308 win. only have fired and he was most disappointed.
headstamp *R*2*46.
also seeing 1989 and 1993 RORG 556 NATO and 762 Nato
Royal Ordnance Radway Green. V nice brass
Strange the 556 is boxer primed but the 7.62x51 is berdan from same factory
Mike Irwin
Staff
.308 Winchester didn't hit commercially until the 1950s. what became the round was not even out of development in 1946, so it was definitely not a box of 1946 Remington 308 ammo.
Bob Wright
New member
Mike,
Are you aware of any H/S guide that attempts to date a specimen?
For example Winchester and Remington-UMC used a variety of headstamps over the years, and along with case construction, I've tried to narrow down the date a particular specimen was made.
Bob Wright
Are you aware of any H/S guide that attempts to date a specimen?
For example Winchester and Remington-UMC used a variety of headstamps over the years, and along with case construction, I've tried to narrow down the date a particular specimen was made.
Bob Wright
I'm not Mike but maybe I can comment. A few people have tried to, but I don't know of any books. I was told one time that that information was available to law enforcement, but I have not been able to confirm that and the FI guys I spoke with knew nothing about any such records, though they said it could be useful at times in dating a crime scene.
Jim
Jim
Mike Irwin
Staff
To the best of my knowledge, Remington has never used a single letter headstamp, so I sincerely doubt that the brass was made by that company.
The .308 Winchester hit commercial markets in 1952.
Bob,
Unfortunately, I don't believe such a book exists, nor do I really believe one is possible. Some companies have used certain headstamps literally for decades.
Some, of course, have had shorter lives, such as CAPH (Colt Auto Pistol Hammerless) which was only used commercially for perhaps 20 years, but for the most part I think the best you'd be able to do would be break most cartridges down by era, not even by decade.
JonnyC is heavy into the cartridge collecting fraternity, so he may have some thoughts.
The .308 Winchester hit commercial markets in 1952.
Bob,
Unfortunately, I don't believe such a book exists, nor do I really believe one is possible. Some companies have used certain headstamps literally for decades.
Some, of course, have had shorter lives, such as CAPH (Colt Auto Pistol Hammerless) which was only used commercially for perhaps 20 years, but for the most part I think the best you'd be able to do would be break most cartridges down by era, not even by decade.
JonnyC is heavy into the cartridge collecting fraternity, so he may have some thoughts.
Thanks Mike!
I hope I can help here.
First, that R * 2 * 46 * headstamp is Brazilian, used by the Realongo factory, and it is commonly found on 7x57 Mauser rounds. I would check the length of the rounds. It has also been used on Brazilian .30-06 production, so it might be cases that were later cut down by a .308 reloader. There absolutely was no .308 Win. production in 1946.
As to headstamps, I think I'm on pretty safe ground stating that there is no "secret" headstamp or marking guide available to law enforcement only. CSI-type guys are always asking cartridge collectors for headstamp info, and we actually have a good number of them in the collecting fraternity.
I hope I can help here.
First, that R * 2 * 46 * headstamp is Brazilian, used by the Realongo factory, and it is commonly found on 7x57 Mauser rounds. I would check the length of the rounds. It has also been used on Brazilian .30-06 production, so it might be cases that were later cut down by a .308 reloader. There absolutely was no .308 Win. production in 1946.
As to headstamps, I think I'm on pretty safe ground stating that there is no "secret" headstamp or marking guide available to law enforcement only. CSI-type guys are always asking cartridge collectors for headstamp info, and we actually have a good number of them in the collecting fraternity.
Bob Wright
New member
As to dating cartridge specimens, I tried several years ago to make notes of when ammunition companies went by whatever name they were under at the time. (?) For example, ammunition made by E. Remington & Sons bore no headstamp. These are identified by the beveled rim and that they were of a caliber proprietary to guns of Remington manufacture, i.e. .44 Remington. When the Uninon Metallic Cartridge Co. and Winchester bought Remington, the H/S was "REM-UMC", the R-P, etc. Trying to determine the period of the company's existance was a help.
Mayb I'll ressurect my notes.
Bob Wright
Mayb I'll ressurect my notes.
Bob Wright
thebrassmonkeys
New member
Jonnyc and others thks vm for the R 2 46 308 info. i'll admit i was shooting pistols when that guy arrived was shown brass after he left by the RSO of the day who thought it was Rem. i thought was early for commercial 308 Win and also thought it might be resized 30.06.
unfortunately i only kept one piece i will try to find it and post picture.
unfortunately i only kept one piece i will try to find it and post picture.
Need help identifying a .30 caliber rifle round with foreign head stamp
At a local range, I picked up (to my knowledge) an empty .30 caliber rifle cartridge with a foreign head stamp. Its origin could be possibly Farsi/Persian or Arabic, but I am not sure. From other cartridges that I've seen with Arabic head stamps, this one looks very different. Therefore I'm hesitant to say that the language or origin is from an Arabic speaking country. I've also checked the sites listed in the OP, but have yet to see any cartridge with a head stamp similar to this. Has anyone encountered a cartridge like this before?
The case is fired, so I'm sure that it's dimensions may be a little off as it isn't re-sized, but from what I've measured:
Case length: 54mm
Head stamp/case at shoulder diameter: 12mm
Attached I included pictures of the case in between a .308 win and a .30-06 for comparison.
At a local range, I picked up (to my knowledge) an empty .30 caliber rifle cartridge with a foreign head stamp. Its origin could be possibly Farsi/Persian or Arabic, but I am not sure. From other cartridges that I've seen with Arabic head stamps, this one looks very different. Therefore I'm hesitant to say that the language or origin is from an Arabic speaking country. I've also checked the sites listed in the OP, but have yet to see any cartridge with a head stamp similar to this. Has anyone encountered a cartridge like this before?
The case is fired, so I'm sure that it's dimensions may be a little off as it isn't re-sized, but from what I've measured:
Case length: 54mm
Head stamp/case at shoulder diameter: 12mm
Attached I included pictures of the case in between a .308 win and a .30-06 for comparison.
Attachments
Last edited:
