Unsafe Trigger System In Reminton 700 Rifles

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Many years ago, I'd adjusted "newly out-of-the-box" 700 triggers for minimal "competition" engagement, but in the normal "wearing-in" process, they've become too short and refused to cock, but haven't had firing pins drop without touching the trigger. Since that time, many years ago, I've refused to adjust the older 700 trigger design until they've been fired enough to stabilize the mechanism.

Having repaired and "tuned" many types of firearms over the years, I've noticed that many competition shooters and some varmint hunters want triggers as light and as short as physically possible, yet either don't know how or simply fail to maintain them adequately. They use lubricants like WD40 which, in time, congeal in trigger mechanisms, preventing or inhibiting forward trigger movement on cocking. They also fail to protect guns from the elements by not using proper protectants. Yet, they continually use them in terrible weather until they ultimately fail to operate.

For example, people who have driven old, rusty and poorly maintained vehicles for years, should never own a Ferrari or XKE. They simply don't know how to take care of them properly. To some extent, the same goes for finely-tuned guns. Novices also shouldn't be adjusting triggers.

I second the statement by a previous poster about older Winchester 94s being the rifle with the most accidental discharges. I've replaced hammers with broken half-cock notches that caused accidental discharges and have witnessed several hammer thumb-slips that fired the rifles, just after loading. It happens mostly in cold weather when people are wearing gloves or mittens.
 
It's a real problem, caused by a poor design.

Cars have them, vacuum cleaners have them but for some reason people refuse to believe that a gun could possibly have a poorly designed component.

Read more here
 
Something else that's interesting. If a car, or almost any other product, has a defect that effects over X% of units sold, it has a mandatory recall. But the firearms industry doesn't have that regulation. Seems like they should, if you ask me.
 
You do NOT want the firearms industry to subject to recalls. That puts a lot of faith in our government to do the right thing and I have absolutely no faith in our government. Why do we expect trigger mechanisms to work 100 years without failure? Cars last that long? Air conditioners last that long? Lawn mowers last that long? Why are firearms expected to never wear out or tear up? Did Remington have a perfect trigger in the 700? No. They had one that statistically performed better than most products we have available to us.
 
With the exception of cars, mandatory recalls are kind of a new thing. The FDA only got mandatory recall authority in 2011, and the Consumer Product Safety Commission didn't have mandatory recall authority until 2010.

As for what kind of a flaw is serious enough to warrant a mandatory recall, I don't know, but I don't think it's as simple as meeting a threshold for the percentage of affected products.

If a particular flaw is near-universal in a company's product, but no one is likely to be hurt as a result, then there won't be a mandatory recall. But a demonstrated flaw that has the potential to maim/kill someone will probably generate a recall, no matter how few units are affected.
 
I would say that anyone who has a remington factory trigger thats below 3-4 lbs has a rifle that exceeds design intent and limits, no matter if it was shipped that way or adjusted later. The force necessary to hold the trigger in position as the sear is dropped on it while it's coming off safe, is critical. If it every fails to cock on closing it's an accident looking for a place to happen.


I love 700's and Timney triggers.
 
X% of units and is a danger. I did forget to the put that in there. My bad.

Reynolds357.

A: Don't tell me what I do and don't want. That's for me to decide.

B: No one ever said the 700s that had this issue were 100 years old, or set up some sort of expectation that they should. I don't know where that statement even came from.

ScottRiqui.

I wasn't aware that it was so soon. I had heard of recalls for childrens toys and such for so long, I assumed it was mandated by some sort of organization, be it government or otherwise, that performed safety checks.
 
Has anyone here had an accidental discharge from a Remington 700 because of mechanical failure of the trigger system?
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I saw one happen this past deer season. We got back to the truck (2 friends and myself) and proceeded to unload our rifles. I happened to be looking at my friend and watched the rifle go off. Needless to say we were all surprised, especially him. This was only his second hunt and he was pretty shook up. He maintained that his finger was not on the trigger, and that when he flipped the safety off the rifle fired. So we unloaded it and tried to duplicate it and guess what? We could with alarming regularity, the firing pin would drop about every other time when the safety was released. This was a new phenomenon, he'd had the rifle for a year or two without issue.

This was an older 700, my friend mailed it back to Remington and they sent it back with a letter saying they identified the problem and fixed it. He had ringing and pain in his left ear the remainder of the hunt, although I think things are basically back to normal. Luckily he was practicing safe unloading practice and the rifle was pointed the hell away from everyone.
 
Ive seen most of the videos on the subject. Never do they ask the owner of the rifle if the trigger has been modified or if proper maintenance was performed on the rifle. I know in several cases the rifles were in poor shape, most likely cleaned a handful of times over their life. My memory fails me here but i believe at least 1 rifle involved in a controversial AD was tested and an AD couldnt be replicated. And after all, theres a lot of people locked up that will say, "yes i pointed a loaded gun at somebody but i did not pull the trigger. It just went off." Anyone in the business of making deadly weapons generally has a good litigious team. Probably easier to name the manufacturers that have NOT had a lawsuit against them for their triggers.

PS i have 1 Rem 700, never had a problem, hunt w/it all the time, the trigger is at about 2.5lbs. Also i believe it is a 1998 but cant confirm at the moment.
 
Shamrock, if you want the government to have recall authority in the firearms industry, you are extremely un-informed about the long term ramifications it would bring. If you choose to take offense to that, so be it.
 
MSNBC did a documentary on this issue.
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I would not put a lot of stock in MSNBC's "documentary" on this issue. Or any other for that matter. Does anyone remember NBC putting explosive charges on Chevrolet pickups to show that their gas tanks would explode?
 
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NO,Ive owned a 1963 700 in 300WM for 30 years never a problem.
Can it happen hell ya.Known of a few other rifles firing before the person behind it was ready also. Light triggers are Dangerous no matter the make.
 
My wife bought one of these Remingtons about 5 years ago. Is there anything a local gunsmith can do to fix the problem? I don't want to sent it into the company.
 
Fred,

A good gunsmith can insepect your wifes rifle and give you an opinion on the safety of the trigger system.

He could also show you how to test your rifle and how to look through the sight hole on the side of the trigger to witness sear engagement and if the triggger spring has been backed off to much by improper adjustment. This is where this issue of firing when the safe is pushed forward comes from. People back off on the wrong screw, they take all the spring preload off the trigger while checking the trigger with a tension gage. When they reach a desired force they call it adjusted. What they failed to do was think about how this trigger works. When the safety if applied it lifts the sear off the trigger which now has zero spring pressure to hold it in place. When the safety is pushed forward the trigger moves out of the way.......because that's what they adjusted it to do.

If it's adjusted as it should be and the springs are ok, it will be safe. IMHO

I just took a remington SPS trigger off and replaced it with a Timney trigger. The remington trigger was totally safe. In fact it was about 8lbs with at least 1/16 inch sear engagement. I believe you could toss that rifle off a 10 story building loaded with the safety off and it would not fire.

It's common for remington triggers to be adjusted. I also think it's common for them to be adjusted in an unsafe manner.
 
I've owned at least seven different model 700's, love how they look and how well they shoot---none of the ones I've had demonstrated this trigger or safety problem--the one I have now, the one I'll keep, a brown laminate in 06will not accidentally drop the firing pin when disengaging the safety or cycling the action--- I bought this gun new about 7 or 8 months ago--the 700 is really a great rifle, well made, usually very accurate and this problem they had with the trigger group sounds like it has been rectified with the newer design: do this--before filling out the paperwork to take possesion of a new 700, cycle the action a number of times, switch the safety on and off, rifle pointed at the floor and empty of course---if the firing pin drops for any reason and the trigger has not been touched, don't buy it----how simple is that ?? not saying Remington is perfect, but as an avid 700 owner, it seems that with the amount of 700's sold, the percentage that have had this problem would seem very small---not saying this problem doesn't exist, just saying every 700 I've owned has been totally dependable mechanically----
 
Another point, people have been shot becauase of this? The person holding the gun, pointed at someone while they are playing with the action or moving the safety, shouldn't even be allowed to use a gun -- they are completely ignoring the first rule of gun handling, point it in a safe direction no matter what your doing with it---wanted to vent on this point, thanks for listening----
 
Don't buy any Japanese-made automobiles; they have been PROVEN to have been involved in numerous accidents, through no fault of the operators! Many lawsuits bare this to be true. Even more owners will come forth and swear to it, if you publish a Class Action Lawsuit, with the promise of financial compensation for pain, suffering, and loss of income!

As has been said over and over and over, it is the operator's responsibility to properly maintain and operate ALL mechanical devices. When this is done to the best of your ability (and yes, you are responsible for receiving the appropriate level of training in maint. & operation), the tool or implement is, after all, just a mechanical tool. You alone are responsible for it's performance.

I've owned about two dozen 700s over the last 40 years, and at least three of them have seen thousands of rounds fired from each. The only negligent discharge I can recall was caused by my misplaced, cold, and shivering trigger-finger. Mia culpa.
 
I would not put a lot of stock in MSNBC's "documentary" on this issue. Or any other for that matter. Does anyone remember NBC putting explosive charges on Chevrolet pickups to show that their gas tanks would explode?
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Talk about shooting the messenger! MSNBC consulted various firearms experts and did not conduct their own tests. They reported numerous lawsuits lost by Rem and settlements paid by Rem because of the triggers. MSNBC isn't the problem with the rifle.

Given the number of court cases lost and latter suits Rem just settled out of court instead of choosing to fight (and usually lose), the problem is real.

Note that the suits stem from injured and don't take into account all the non-injury incidents.

Can you otherwise document that MSNBC did wrong in the report or that anything that they reported was not actually true? Walker himself talked about problems with the trigger he designed that is at the crux of the problem. The court cases can be verified. So what in the report was fabricated as you imply?

And NO, NBC did not put "explosive charges" in the trucks. Results were rigged with model rocket engines, not explosives.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dateline_NBC
 
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You might have been injured by a remington trigger and not even know it. Call this number.........for a free evaluation of your case.:cool:
 
And NO, NBC did not put "explosive charges" in the trucks. Results were rigged with model rocket engines, not explosives.
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Okay, I didn't remember exactly how they rigged it, but rigged is still rigged.

As I remember they tried unsuccessfully to make a Chevrolet gas tank explode and couldn't so they used an external incendiary device.

And I didn't say Remington didn't have a problem. Although I once had a Remington 700 and had no problems with it whatsoever.

I just look very critically at any thing our so called main stream media says especially when it comes to guns.
 
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