United 93
- Thread starter ShowMeState1977
- Start date
Bottom Line:
1. 9-11 was a trajedy created by religious fanatics and desperate people with eigther no regard for human life or not enough brains to figure out the towers were not military structures.
2. The Government has been criticized for letting this happen. Some claim their was intelligence forewarning the US about this plot, some disagree. We as civilians may never know the truth.
3. People have had a VERY wide range of responces from the 9/11 attacks. Most have decided to give up their freedoms and privacy to allow the government to "PROTECT" us from harm. Others, even intelligent, well rounded people, have become increasingly belligerent towards anyone who questions the motives of LEO agencies or GOVT. agencies and a very violent attitude towards "criminals".
4. The world is very different since 9/11. Not because of some "NEW" threat of terrorism, but because of a new FEAR of terrorism. People refer to a "post 9/11 world", but what they refer to is the same world we have been living in since the cold war, hell, before that even.
5. This movie is an abomination. Even if it is well written, and in spite of the fact that those people were heroes, it is still a product made to make money off of the trajedy of 9/11. Unless 100% of profits go to the families, it will remain just that.
6. As for the movie being propaganda, thats hard to say. Sure, it might not have any direct political commentary in it, but nobody here can deny that the movie was meant to stir up emotions. People were largely in favor of the war right after the events(or at least, not blatantly against it like they are now) and the presidents approval rating was high. It seems like IF someone were to conspire to remind people of their rage and try to win back support, this would be a good method. (that or start some debate about the national anthem being in spanish, that seems like it could enrage a few people into thinking with their emotions again)
7. Why bother getting so upset with the consiracy nuts? There are some real wackos out there, but does anyone REALLY take those guys seriously?
I hope the families of the victims are at peace with themselves, and with life in general. Few things are worse than losing a loved one. If there is a god in any shape or form, let him smile on those people.
1. 9-11 was a trajedy created by religious fanatics and desperate people with eigther no regard for human life or not enough brains to figure out the towers were not military structures.
2. The Government has been criticized for letting this happen. Some claim their was intelligence forewarning the US about this plot, some disagree. We as civilians may never know the truth.
3. People have had a VERY wide range of responces from the 9/11 attacks. Most have decided to give up their freedoms and privacy to allow the government to "PROTECT" us from harm. Others, even intelligent, well rounded people, have become increasingly belligerent towards anyone who questions the motives of LEO agencies or GOVT. agencies and a very violent attitude towards "criminals".
4. The world is very different since 9/11. Not because of some "NEW" threat of terrorism, but because of a new FEAR of terrorism. People refer to a "post 9/11 world", but what they refer to is the same world we have been living in since the cold war, hell, before that even.
5. This movie is an abomination. Even if it is well written, and in spite of the fact that those people were heroes, it is still a product made to make money off of the trajedy of 9/11. Unless 100% of profits go to the families, it will remain just that.
6. As for the movie being propaganda, thats hard to say. Sure, it might not have any direct political commentary in it, but nobody here can deny that the movie was meant to stir up emotions. People were largely in favor of the war right after the events(or at least, not blatantly against it like they are now) and the presidents approval rating was high. It seems like IF someone were to conspire to remind people of their rage and try to win back support, this would be a good method. (that or start some debate about the national anthem being in spanish, that seems like it could enrage a few people into thinking with their emotions again)
7. Why bother getting so upset with the consiracy nuts? There are some real wackos out there, but does anyone REALLY take those guys seriously?
I hope the families of the victims are at peace with themselves, and with life in general. Few things are worse than losing a loved one. If there is a god in any shape or form, let him smile on those people.
Terrorists see anyone who isnt with them as an enemy be it men, women, or children. If you dont support Radical Islam, then by default your life is worthless and you are an enemy to be killed.
The Towers were simply finishing up business that they had started earlier. They were striking at finances, people, and symbols of America.
Personally, I think we should have rebuilt the towers bigger and better. To let them know that no matter what they do we are going to carry on. Sort of a Molon Labe social statement.
Personally I think most of the tools were already there for the administration to use, such as the FISA courts in the intelligence arena. The Patriot Act was just another public dog an pony show by the President and Congress. If they needed anything else they could have just added to current law without all the noise and fanfare. Sending another message to the terrorists thats its business as usual while we kick your butt up around your head and make you sorry you were ever born.
why do we bother with the anti-gun nuts? To get the truth out and dispel myths and lies.
OK. The night has passed and I can better write what I wanted to say.
To date, the film has grossed a mere $20 million dollars, nationwide. Hardly a success by movie standards.
The producers went out of their way to secure the permission of all the relatives of those lost on Flight 93. They didn't have to do this. That alone tends to speak highly of the motives behind the production.
Take a look at the list of actors. Do you see any really known faces there? If the producers were out to "Hollywoodize" the tragedy, then name recognition actors would have been used. Instead, the producers chose relatively unknowns, because they wanted the audience to believe that this happened to everyday people and that it was everyday people who chose to make a difference.
The producers went to extremes to establish the facts of this flight. There is no commentary. No politicizing. You are simply put into the cabin to watch, what you already know, unfold.
We are coming up on the 5th anniversary of 9/11 and as a people, we have, by and large, forgotten. What happened on that day has left a huge wound on this nation. But like all wounds, it heals and scars over and we tend to either forget the significance of the scarring or downplay its importance.
Many, if not most of us, here on this board, haven't forgotten. We talk of the ramifications of 9/11 and the War on Terror almost everyday. But the majority of America isn't like us. Looking at the Box Office stats, it's obvious that many, if not most, Americans do not want to be reminded. It's always easier to hide your head in the sand than to stand up and face reality.
This film is hardly an abomination. It is a wake-up call that most of America does not want to hear. We don't want to be reminded of how our country has changed. This is most evident when people stand up and say that the whole 9/11 tragedy was some kind of gigantic conspiracy, and they are not immediately shouted down for the fools and idiots they are. Personally, I have a huge problem with these types. Because it tells me that there is a (growing?) segment of our people who don't take terrorists seriously.
This belittles the deaths of all the innocents. It denies the courage and heroic actions of those at ground zero. It denies the courage of those on Flight 93, who knowingly gave their lives to protect further innocents from danger and death.
That is what this film is about. Whatever it takes to make the wound bleed, reminds us of how the wound got there in the first place.
Never Forget!
Of course the producers of this film want to make money. That's a given for any film. But there are some things that need repeating.nicotine said:
To date, the film has grossed a mere $20 million dollars, nationwide. Hardly a success by movie standards.
The producers went out of their way to secure the permission of all the relatives of those lost on Flight 93. They didn't have to do this. That alone tends to speak highly of the motives behind the production.
Take a look at the list of actors. Do you see any really known faces there? If the producers were out to "Hollywoodize" the tragedy, then name recognition actors would have been used. Instead, the producers chose relatively unknowns, because they wanted the audience to believe that this happened to everyday people and that it was everyday people who chose to make a difference.
The producers went to extremes to establish the facts of this flight. There is no commentary. No politicizing. You are simply put into the cabin to watch, what you already know, unfold.
We are coming up on the 5th anniversary of 9/11 and as a people, we have, by and large, forgotten. What happened on that day has left a huge wound on this nation. But like all wounds, it heals and scars over and we tend to either forget the significance of the scarring or downplay its importance.
Many, if not most of us, here on this board, haven't forgotten. We talk of the ramifications of 9/11 and the War on Terror almost everyday. But the majority of America isn't like us. Looking at the Box Office stats, it's obvious that many, if not most, Americans do not want to be reminded. It's always easier to hide your head in the sand than to stand up and face reality.
This film is hardly an abomination. It is a wake-up call that most of America does not want to hear. We don't want to be reminded of how our country has changed. This is most evident when people stand up and say that the whole 9/11 tragedy was some kind of gigantic conspiracy, and they are not immediately shouted down for the fools and idiots they are. Personally, I have a huge problem with these types. Because it tells me that there is a (growing?) segment of our people who don't take terrorists seriously.
This belittles the deaths of all the innocents. It denies the courage and heroic actions of those at ground zero. It denies the courage of those on Flight 93, who knowingly gave their lives to protect further innocents from danger and death.
That is what this film is about. Whatever it takes to make the wound bleed, reminds us of how the wound got there in the first place.
Never Forget!
CobrayCommando
Moderator
http://movies.yahoo.com/mv/boxoffice/
Its not doing too bad for a movie with no distributor, and in only 1,800 theaters! There wasn't a huge amount of advertising for it either. Let me tell you something, in my estimation 90%+ of the reason they asked permission of the families and didn't get any big name actors, was so that more people would see it.
Would you go see it if they didn't ask the families, if they made Ice T the captain and Ashton Kutcher the hero of the movie? HA!
The British don't make a movie every 5 years about the losses they suffered in the Boer War, we don't make a movie every 5 years about the fighting on Guadalcanal, or the Spanish-American War.
When does it become time to just let the wound heal, for the entertainment industry and politicians to stop profiting off the dead?
Its not doing too bad for a movie with no distributor, and in only 1,800 theaters! There wasn't a huge amount of advertising for it either. Let me tell you something, in my estimation 90%+ of the reason they asked permission of the families and didn't get any big name actors, was so that more people would see it.
Would you go see it if they didn't ask the families, if they made Ice T the captain and Ashton Kutcher the hero of the movie? HA!
The British don't make a movie every 5 years about the losses they suffered in the Boer War, we don't make a movie every 5 years about the fighting on Guadalcanal, or the Spanish-American War.
When does it become time to just let the wound heal, for the entertainment industry and politicians to stop profiting off the dead?
Ultima-Ratio
Moderator
#93????????????????????????????????/
Hmmmm, I saw a link and followed it from the libertyforums.com to a Cleveland staion which archived the emergency landing there of flight 93 because of a bomb threat!?
And yes I printed the article. If I find the time and interest I'll post it or the link..
Hmmmm, I saw a link and followed it from the libertyforums.com to a Cleveland staion which archived the emergency landing there of flight 93 because of a bomb threat!?
And yes I printed the article. If I find the time and interest I'll post it or the link..
Yeah, because in the chaos of 9/11, when everyone was taken off guard, trying to figure out what the heck was going on, repeating whatever frantic guesses they picked up on the scanner or overheard from a running fireman more interested in getting to the scene than giving an interview, we know no one broadcast information that later turned out to be false.
(You might remember every plane was ordered out of the sky that morning, I hope?)
Jeez... surely you remember what it was actually like that day? Everyone was running around, frantically passing on whatever they heard, trying to figure out what the heck was going on. There were all kinds of confused reports.
What? A plane hit the WTC? Yeah some kind of Cessna or something.. what? It wasn't a Cessna.. a passenger liner?? You're kidding.. what a terrible accident.. no..wait.. another one?? Oh crap..
Here, let me refresh your memory. Some of the members here were kind enough to give those of us without access to a radio or TV a running commentary that day... all the news sites were slammed, as you'd expect.
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80340
Read the danged thing over again. Pay particular attention to how many reports and speculations were thrown out in the first few hours that we later found out were completely wrong.
It was only FIVE FREAKING YEARS ago. I don't think a little memory of what that day was like is too much to ask.
(You might remember every plane was ordered out of the sky that morning, I hope?)
Jeez... surely you remember what it was actually like that day? Everyone was running around, frantically passing on whatever they heard, trying to figure out what the heck was going on. There were all kinds of confused reports.
What? A plane hit the WTC? Yeah some kind of Cessna or something.. what? It wasn't a Cessna.. a passenger liner?? You're kidding.. what a terrible accident.. no..wait.. another one?? Oh crap..
Here, let me refresh your memory. Some of the members here were kind enough to give those of us without access to a radio or TV a running commentary that day... all the news sites were slammed, as you'd expect.
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80340
Read the danged thing over again. Pay particular attention to how many reports and speculations were thrown out in the first few hours that we later found out were completely wrong.
It was only FIVE FREAKING YEARS ago. I don't think a little memory of what that day was like is too much to ask.
Kaylee, I realize that this is a sensative issue, and emotions run high around things like this, but CALM DOWN. I don't think anyone here is trying to say it didn't happen or that it was some conspiracy, I don't think ultimateradio(or whatever) was implying that so there is no reason to get so hostile with him/her.
I think that people are confusing concern for accuracy in the movie with concern about conspiracys. Just because someone thinks the director or writer may have gotten their facts wrong, does not mean that they are calling into question the whole inccident.
I think that people are confusing concern for accuracy in the movie with concern about conspiracys. Just because someone thinks the director or writer may have gotten their facts wrong, does not mean that they are calling into question the whole inccident.
Actually, when someone says that UA 93 landed on 9/11, they are calling the incident into question. I also find the comment regarding the British and the Boer war to be pretty ridiculous...we are still at war with these Islamic madmen, and they still want to kill us....BIG DIFFERENCE.
Yeah, I do need to calm down. In through the nose, out through the mouth... thanks. 
Secondly, what stevekolt said regarding both the "Flight 93 landed safely" nonsense and the Boer War comparison. Nicely said.
It just bugs the heck out of me when the deaths of our countrymen are turned into some kinda conspiracy game and folks try to pretend for whatever reason it never happened. I can understand disagreeing with our policies following those attacks. That's cool, we're a free country and all that. Heck, I have my own beefs with some of it.
But pretending those things never happened... that's just peeing on the collective grave on thousands of people. I think some forget those were real peopl that died. Real people with brothers and sisters and mothers and fathers and daughters and sons that will never see them come home.
I just so hate to see that turned into some kind of game.
You know the ol' saw -
"You're entitled to your own opinion. You're not entitled to your own facts."
Secondly, what stevekolt said regarding both the "Flight 93 landed safely" nonsense and the Boer War comparison. Nicely said.
It just bugs the heck out of me when the deaths of our countrymen are turned into some kinda conspiracy game and folks try to pretend for whatever reason it never happened. I can understand disagreeing with our policies following those attacks. That's cool, we're a free country and all that. Heck, I have my own beefs with some of it.
But pretending those things never happened... that's just peeing on the collective grave on thousands of people. I think some forget those were real peopl that died. Real people with brothers and sisters and mothers and fathers and daughters and sons that will never see them come home.
I just so hate to see that turned into some kind of game.
You know the ol' saw -
"You're entitled to your own opinion. You're not entitled to your own facts."
All I meant was that I don't think untimelyratio(or whatever) meant to question the events, just the accuracy of the writer/directors information.
We were NEVER at war with these terrorists. Dispite the media calling it "the war on terror". The war on terror is a battle of new laws and witch hunts, like "the war on drugs". The actual "WAR" that are troops have been engaged in was a war against a dangerous dictator who supposedly was developing WMDs. What we are doing now is trying to restore order to a nation we plunged into anarchy. I don't want this taken out of context, I believe what we are/were doing is right, and justified(mostly), but that is NOT the "WAR" on terror that you are talking about.
We have not declared war on islam, We ARE looking for these terrorist(the same way cops look for domestic criminals. Would you say a police dept. is "at war" with someone with outstanding traffic tickets?) and are using lethal force when required. But at war with them we are not. That would be giving these thugs a little too much credability don't you think? I don't think(personal opinion, not fact) that we NEED reminding, we are reminded everyday when some dupe says "a post 9/11 world" or soething like that, and every third car around here has a "9/11-never forget" bumper sticker. I would probably feel different about this movie if it were 2010 or if the nation HAD lapsed into not caring. But I think there is still too many people who are vulnerable to this movie right now.
Radical Islamists have declared war on us....
from ther Al Qaeda handbook
"
western/apostate regimes/crusaders/colonialists would include the United States/Europe and Muslim Countries who are allied with us.
If Pearl Harbor started a war with Japan then what is 9/11 but the start of a war with Radical Islam?
from ther Al Qaeda handbook
"
western/apostate regimes/crusaders/colonialists would include the United States/Europe and Muslim Countries who are allied with us.
If Pearl Harbor started a war with Japan then what is 9/11 but the start of a war with Radical Islam?
Japan is a nation, Al queda is a gang.
Hypothetically, If a building was bombed by members of an extremist group, would that mean that we, as a nation are at war with said group? If that were the case, how come armed soldiers didn't march into elohim city after the OKC bombing or spend the next 5 years hunting down members of militia and neo-nazi groups. Because it would be grossly inapropriate for an advanced military force to engage in a "WAR" with such thugs. The administration likes to talk about the "war on terror" because they want to sound like they are DOING something about terrorist.
Hypothetically, If a building was bombed by members of an extremist group, would that mean that we, as a nation are at war with said group? If that were the case, how come armed soldiers didn't march into elohim city after the OKC bombing or spend the next 5 years hunting down members of militia and neo-nazi groups. Because it would be grossly inapropriate for an advanced military force to engage in a "WAR" with such thugs. The administration likes to talk about the "war on terror" because they want to sound like they are DOING something about terrorist.
CobrayCommando
Moderator
Right.
We need a movie to remind us that we are currently at war.... But not one to remind us of a war 100 years back...
makarova30
Inactive
Anybody seen the FAA flight recorder reconstruction?
I havent, but I understand the the aircraft trajectory was pretty much straight into the ground. Yet one of the engines is nearly two football fields away. My take on that is the cell phone calls from passengers onboard are authentic concerning events onboard the aircraft. Despite that there is the possibility that the White House ordered the aircraft shot down because they didn't know the passengers were fighting to take back the aircraft.
If I can mention another conspiracty theory, FL-800 that blew up off of Long Island Sound, was found to contain rocket fuel embedded in the seat cushions, and the FBI Lab concluded that it was impossible for the fuel tank to detonate at that altitude, 11,000 ft if I remember correctly. The theory goes Clinton didn't want to admit he lost an airliner to terrorists over U.S. airspace while he was up for reelection, he had other things on his mind.
I havent, but I understand the the aircraft trajectory was pretty much straight into the ground. Yet one of the engines is nearly two football fields away. My take on that is the cell phone calls from passengers onboard are authentic concerning events onboard the aircraft. Despite that there is the possibility that the White House ordered the aircraft shot down because they didn't know the passengers were fighting to take back the aircraft.
If I can mention another conspiracty theory, FL-800 that blew up off of Long Island Sound, was found to contain rocket fuel embedded in the seat cushions, and the FBI Lab concluded that it was impossible for the fuel tank to detonate at that altitude, 11,000 ft if I remember correctly. The theory goes Clinton didn't want to admit he lost an airliner to terrorists over U.S. airspace while he was up for reelection, he had other things on his mind.
makarova30
Inactive
update
The FAA doesn't have any info on FL93 on their website. Instead they refer you to the FBI....hokay. Guess what, there is no video reconstruction there either. Still looking for that. If anybody has any good guesses where that might be found, please post. Thanks
The FAA doesn't have any info on FL93 on their website. Instead they refer you to the FBI....hokay. Guess what, there is no video reconstruction there either. Still looking for that. If anybody has any good guesses where that might be found, please post. Thanks
When that El Al cargo jet crashed into the apartment building in Amsterdam in 1992, it was principally precipitated by one of the engines shearing off due to a problem with the linkage, which then knocked the other one off. They found the engines in a lake miles away.
It's entirely possible that the dynamic stresses involved in a 600mph straight-in dive, when the maximum speed of the plane is 590mph at 27,000 feet where the air is much thinner, would have peeled off the engines on the way in and caused them to impact hundreds of feet away.
I just don't get the point of the conspiracy theories, especially the more wacky ones about United 93 that are along the lines of "fake moon landing," Capricorn One, and Roswell aliens.