ugh. SD ammo

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Kyo

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so, I went and pick up my first shotgun last week. which is 12 gauge. Anyway, I asked what kind of self defense rounds I should pick up, and the employee said the 7 1/2 birdshot 2 3/4 inch 1 ounce shot.
so, I bought the box of 25...and 10 rounds of 1 once slugs to go to the range with.
Heres the thing. Same guy told me to go on box o truth. Which I knew about before. I went on there, and it specifically was saying the 00 buckshot for defense and the birdshot is not viable. So, why would the guy tell me to get birdshot for self defense? And what am I supposed to do with it now? :(
 
lol can't take shot to the range. only slugs. I guess I could go into a foresty area away from the public. that would be fun
 
And what am I supposed to do with it now?
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Carry it when hiking in woods case you get attacked by another TURKEY and don`t take anymore advise from the TURKEY(salesman) that allready attacked you :D.
 
When you asked the salesman...

...did you mention living in an apartment? Or having people in adjacent rooms? (For all I know you live in a log cabin in the woods, but these are factors he could have considered IF they were brought up and IF you do live in crowded conditions... if not, no idea why he recommended 7 1/2)

Some recommend birdshot to avoid penetrating interior walls in those instances. Otherwise, I've never seen smaller than #4 buck recommended.
 
Unless your living room is 30 yards across #7 1/2 shot will most definately incapacitate any home intruder. Most rooms in the average home are no more then 20' to 25' across. Thats 8 yards at best. Shoot someone at that close of a range and more then likely they are not getting up.
 
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Birdshot?

;) Use the 7 1/2's to practice with and is a great snake killer too. Or if you are concerned about penetration issues, trade them in for #6's. At close range, the number 6 shot is a lot more efficient....
 
the real question is, how much did you pay for that birdshot? in my area, 25 rounds of 7 1/2 goes for $5-6. and yes, id get that mil-spec 00 buck that comes in that brown cardboard box, $5 for 5 shells.
 
Just my experience, FWIW. When I would respond to any situation in which we received notice that the homeowner had fired a shot, we either found the BG on the floor, or at the hospital (If we found him at all).
The noise alone will scare most people away in a home invasion situation. Talked with the local Sheriff department folks and they said most of the farmers around here that do use their shotguns for home defense, use whatever they have laying around.
Regardless of what is coming out of that cannon, the noise and destructive power is usually enough to scare the poop out of a bad guy. He will not stick around to see what else you have. Someone else here on this forum had posted something along the lines that although the bad guys are pieces of **** and seek to do you harm, they still have a sense of self preservation...
Take the bird shot to a range and mark out the distance from where you would be shooting from at home (maybe a bedroom doorway) to the farthest distance in the room you may ultimately have to shoot in (Maybe the living room) and see what type of pattern you have. Between the noise and a few small pieces of bird shot, I would be the BG does not stick around long enough for you to have to shoot twice.
Work with what you have, not with what you want.
 
Seems to me...

... a couple of EMS types have posted, in other threads, about the damage done by birdshot at close ranges.

From what they've said about GSW's they've treated, or that they've found in DRT BG's, it's nasty.

Open up the range a bit, and put on winter weight clothing or heavy leather, and it may not perform so well.

However, saying it is "ignorant" to think that well-delivered birdshot at close range will incapacitate a BG seems both arrogant and mis-informed.
 
Ignorant ?

Ignorance is bliss, I guess.
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tell ya what, take a 12ga. or even a 20ga. with a 1oz load of 7 1/2 shot and put one into a sheet of 3/4 plywood at 15 feet....It will change your opinion.

Guys where talking home defense here not bird hunting in the field. Your not taking a shot at a BD from 40 yards. Were talking 5 to 8 yards at most. I'd bet a dollar to a dime that a well placed chest shot at this distance and the BG will have a shot wad for a belly button ring. :eek:
 
i know. I personally would not want to be on the receiving end of a full load of #7 1/2. well, maybe at 50 yards. but under 10 yards, no thanks
 
buckshot for bad guys - birdshot for birdies - repeat

When we train, we train for the worst-case-scenario, not for ideal circumstances where everything is to your advantage. That's not reality.
That's why there's buckshot or slugs in my shotgun, i want to cover ALL possible scenarios:

* drugged-out junkie
* 300 pound drunken/druggie biker
* multiple attackers
* dog/animal attack
* cold weather clothing
* many other reasons NOT to use birdshot



Famous African big game hunter, Robert Ruark, was 100% correct when he was quoted for the saying, "USE ENOUGH GUN" - That famous quote is applicable for this thread in a self-defense scenario.


Birdshot simply doesn't have the sectional density for most s-d scenarios, especially when heavy clothing and heavy drugs factor in.

AND

It's a common misconception that the birdshot pellets enter en masse upon penetration [meaning they act like one large pellet]. That is incorrect. The pellets have INDIVIDUAL wound tracks, and suffer from pellet deformation due to their small size, impeding penetration even more.


Please, anyone who's interested in learning something about terminal ballistics from the experts on the subject should check out: http://www.m4carbine.net/forumdisplay.php?f=91


I raise the question of what LEO or military agency issues birdshot shells to their officers or troops to address some "overpenetration" issue..?

I've personally shot enough things; living and otherwise with birdshot to know its limitations. Don't make the mistake of putting your life/loved ones on the line to an inadequate defensive load. That's pure folly.

If you wanna use birdshot for a self-defense scenario, then fine, just don't insist that others make the same mistake as you. That's just bad, dangerous advice.
 
I stand by what I wrote. It is most assuredly ignorant to suggest that birdshot will "definately[sic] incapacitate" anyone. Period. That cannot even be said of buckshot.

Regarding the ER visits of grievous appearing wounds from birdshot, in many if not most cases, these are superficial - yes they appear nasty but are most certainly not guaranteed to incapacitate anyone.

Y'all need to put the superstitions aside and seriously consider the actual terminal ballistics involved.
 
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