Uberti: Difference between Cimarron vs Taylor's
- Thread starter ClemBert
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Indian Outlaw
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The Colts held up pretty well during a lengthy Civil War. I prefer Remingtons, but the Colts are reasonably strong for a black powder gun.
As far as the wedge...read this patent except.
The wedge screw on the original 1851 .36 that I just got has an oversized head which actually makes contact with the wedge and keeps it from moving in too far.
Oh yeah...Colts are Da Balls. Strong, beautiful, balanced...Remingtons are cool, too, but Colts are works of art that go bang.
Patent #1,304 dated 8/29/1839. In this patent, Colt talks about the "key" or wedge. "As the key C is to act laterally as a wedge to draw the receiver and the barrel into contact, it is of importance that it should be checked when forced sufficiently far in, or the receiver might be wedged up and prevented from turning. For this purpose I insert a screw, e, Fig.3, into the steel button f, which is attached to D D... The head of this screw, overlapping the end of the mortise, receives the wedge and checks it. By turning this screw the force of the wedge may be tempered. In fig. 5 g is a spring-latch on the under side of the key, which catches upon D when the key is forced in and prevents its accidental removal."
The wedge screw on the original 1851 .36 that I just got has an oversized head which actually makes contact with the wedge and keeps it from moving in too far.
Oh yeah...Colts are Da Balls. Strong, beautiful, balanced...Remingtons are cool, too, but Colts are works of art that go bang.
Patent #1,304 dated 8/29/1839. In this patent, Colt talks about the "key" or wedge. "As the key C is to act laterally as a wedge to draw the receiver and the barrel into contact, it is of importance that it should be checked when forced sufficiently far in, or the receiver might be wedged up and prevented from turning. For this purpose I insert a screw, e, Fig.3, into the steel button f, which is attached to D D... The head of this screw, overlapping the end of the mortise, receives the wedge and checks it. By turning this screw the force of the wedge may be tempered. In fig. 5 g is a spring-latch on the under side of the key, which catches upon D when the key is forced in and prevents its accidental removal."
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madcratebuilder
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For exact numbers I would have to dig out my Machinery's Handbook. Off to top my head a typical 1/4 inch bolt proofs at over 3000lbs and clamps over 2000lbs.
madcratebuilder
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Guilty as charged.
Fingers McGee
New member
Quote CPT Crossman:
Nope. None of my Colts display that condition.
Quote Cpt Crossman again:
I suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree on that score. I've got a pair of Uberti '61 Navies and 2nd Gen Colt '61 Navies that are more reliable and outshoot any remmie they come up against.
Quote Pohill -
I havent gotten around to calling yet -
o) actually, forgot about it. Guess I need to do that tomorrow.
FM
Nope. None of my Colts display that condition.
Quote Cpt Crossman again:
I suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree on that score. I've got a pair of Uberti '61 Navies and 2nd Gen Colt '61 Navies that are more reliable and outshoot any remmie they come up against.
Quote Pohill -
I havent gotten around to calling yet -
o) actually, forgot about it. Guess I need to do that tomorrow.FM
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Blasphemy, I know, but that wedge is not supposed to go all that far in. It is a consumable. It will distort, or get mashed during prolonged firing.
You should be able to smack it in with a 3 pound hand sledge and not close up the cylinder/barrel gap, IF the arbor is the right length. The arbor should bottom out in the arbor hole. Thumb pressure should be all that is needed to put the pistol back into shooting mode. It should also take no more than a light tap, I have read that them old guys tapped with a loaded replacement cylinder to loose it.
Regardless the patent description, though it may have been one of old Sam'l's ideas, it is to keep the wedge from falling out when you are ahorseback and changing cylinders. Imagine trying to hold onto the wedge, cylinder, barrel, frame and putting the new one in place. That with 2 hands.
Limiter, loose the screw on any of your Colt's and see if you can turn the screw a 1/4 turn and have it stay there. They did not use Nylok or other types of restrained screws. Spin freely. Supposed to be run home and simply keep the wedge from falling out.
As to the Captain's "lock up", I have argued this till I am blue in the face. IF you have a gap, with the base pin face butted, and drive the wedge in, AND close the gap, you are bending the arbor upwards, tilting the barrel upwards, raising the point of aim, shooting high. Many don't comprehend or agree with that. I wish I had a picture to demonstrate. I'll try to draw one and post my thought.
Cheers,
George
You should be able to smack it in with a 3 pound hand sledge and not close up the cylinder/barrel gap, IF the arbor is the right length. The arbor should bottom out in the arbor hole. Thumb pressure should be all that is needed to put the pistol back into shooting mode. It should also take no more than a light tap, I have read that them old guys tapped with a loaded replacement cylinder to loose it.
Regardless the patent description, though it may have been one of old Sam'l's ideas, it is to keep the wedge from falling out when you are ahorseback and changing cylinders. Imagine trying to hold onto the wedge, cylinder, barrel, frame and putting the new one in place. That with 2 hands.
Limiter, loose the screw on any of your Colt's and see if you can turn the screw a 1/4 turn and have it stay there. They did not use Nylok or other types of restrained screws. Spin freely. Supposed to be run home and simply keep the wedge from falling out.
As to the Captain's "lock up", I have argued this till I am blue in the face. IF you have a gap, with the base pin face butted, and drive the wedge in, AND close the gap, you are bending the arbor upwards, tilting the barrel upwards, raising the point of aim, shooting high. Many don't comprehend or agree with that. I wish I had a picture to demonstrate. I'll try to draw one and post my thought.
Cheers,
George
madcratebuilder
New member
George, I couldn't agree more.
When the arbor is properly fit the Colt open top is an accurate, trouble free revolver.
Some people complain of shooting 18" high or low, it's because the have bent the arbor beating the wedge in.
When the arbor is properly fit the Colt open top is an accurate, trouble free revolver.
Some people complain of shooting 18" high or low, it's because the have bent the arbor beating the wedge in.
arbors
THis has been a rahter educational thread- thank you all-
I was reading a pdf file from this forum that speaks to tuning of a Pietta and mentions checking the arbor length and a future article would address a remedy. By and large if the arbor was too long it could be filed down a bit in order to avoid the problem MCB mentions.
I had thought the 3rd gen Colt's were all made by Uberti but stamped by Colt- So now it appears they might have at least checked by Colt.
I may look into finding a 2nd gen just for grins though I will keep looking for a 1858 also.
THis has been a rahter educational thread- thank you all-
I was reading a pdf file from this forum that speaks to tuning of a Pietta and mentions checking the arbor length and a future article would address a remedy. By and large if the arbor was too long it could be filed down a bit in order to avoid the problem MCB mentions.
I had thought the 3rd gen Colt's were all made by Uberti but stamped by Colt- So now it appears they might have at least checked by Colt.
I may look into finding a 2nd gen just for grins though I will keep looking for a 1858 also.
3rd Generation Colt bp revolvers were manufactured by Colt Blackpowder Arms, Inc. in New York using rough castings of major parts made by Uberti in Italy. Colt's Manufacturing Company, the manufacturer of original and 2nd Generation Colt (also from Uberti's rough castings) firearms granted a license to Colt Blackpowder Arms to make the 3rd Generation guns. Colt Blackpowder Arms used Colt's Manufacturing Company processes and in some cases former Colt's Manufacturing Company personnel. Other than the license, Colt's Manufacturing Company had no official hand in producing the 3rd Generation guns. Armi San Marco in Italy produced a number of Colt replica guns with Colt insignia using the same Uberti rough castings in anticipation of a license from Colt's Manufacturing Company. However, the license was never granted and ASM was ordered to cease production of the guns.
Fingers McGee
New member
Quote Oldfalguy:
Signature Series (3rd Generation) Colt BP revolvers were made by Iver Johnson in Middlesex N.J. under license from Colt. They were made from rough castings and unfinished parts supplied by US and European (Uberti) manufacturers, Colt had nothing to do with the manufacturing, inspection or marketing of the Sig Series guns.
Signature Series (3rd Generation) Colt BP revolvers were made by Iver Johnson in Middlesex N.J. under license from Colt. They were made from rough castings and unfinished parts supplied by US and European (Uberti) manufacturers, Colt had nothing to do with the manufacturing, inspection or marketing of the Sig Series guns.
Fingers McGee
New member
Beat me again Mykeal
FM
FM
Cimarron Lawman
New member
An observation ...
Y'all get off topic a lot.
Y'all get off topic a lot.
madcratebuilder
New member
Lou Imperato, DBA Iver Johnson did the F series of the 2nd gens.
Lou Imperato DBA Colt Black Powder Arms Co did the Signature series 3rd gen.
Lou Imperato was involved very early with the 2nd gens with Val Forgett and continued on with the 3rd gens.
Snake River Jake
Inactive
"Last I heard they wouldn't letter from Colt. Colt put out a disclaimer saying they didn't build them and wouldn't warranty them and I've heard several people say they tried to get them lettered and Colt won't letter them. Colt only licensed the 3rd gens and had no part in the building. Colt at least did the final fitting and finish on the 2nd gens."
Actually I did get some 3rd Gens lettered by Colt, so it was done in some instances early in the series release by Colt Blackpowder Inc.
Actually I did get some 3rd Gens lettered by Colt, so it was done in some instances early in the series release by Colt Blackpowder Inc.
Taylor's Ranch Hand Deluxe is outstanding!
I have had a Uberti Cattleman for several years. I sent it to an outstanding gunsmith to have it timed, slicked up with Wolff springs, trigger job, deepen the rear sight notch and make it square-bottomed. That gun is an absolute jewel to shoot.
I just bought a Taylor's Ranch Hand Deluxe. The Deluxe version has all of the above work already performed by Taylor's gunsmith. It is flawless. Timed like a Swiss watch, about a 2lb trigger pull with zero creep and a clean break, nice color in the case hardening and stunning blue on the blue parts. The brass parts are not highly polished, but a little polishing with Brasso will have them shining brightly like the above Uberti. I cannot recommend Taylor's highly enough, especially their Deluxe offerings. I am presently fitting a set of white corian faux ivory grips on this one.
I also have two Ruger Vaqueros. There is no contest. These two Ubertis are just much more fun to shoot, balance better, feel better, and are more accurate. USFA and Colt guns are just priced in the stratosphere, totally out of reach, and IMHO these Taylor's are every bit their equal if not better.
I have had a Uberti Cattleman for several years. I sent it to an outstanding gunsmith to have it timed, slicked up with Wolff springs, trigger job, deepen the rear sight notch and make it square-bottomed. That gun is an absolute jewel to shoot.
I just bought a Taylor's Ranch Hand Deluxe. The Deluxe version has all of the above work already performed by Taylor's gunsmith. It is flawless. Timed like a Swiss watch, about a 2lb trigger pull with zero creep and a clean break, nice color in the case hardening and stunning blue on the blue parts. The brass parts are not highly polished, but a little polishing with Brasso will have them shining brightly like the above Uberti. I cannot recommend Taylor's highly enough, especially their Deluxe offerings. I am presently fitting a set of white corian faux ivory grips on this one.
I also have two Ruger Vaqueros. There is no contest. These two Ubertis are just much more fun to shoot, balance better, feel better, and are more accurate. USFA and Colt guns are just priced in the stratosphere, totally out of reach, and IMHO these Taylor's are every bit their equal if not better.
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