Uberti: Difference between Cimarron vs Taylor's

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If money was no object I'd buy second gen Colts but not third.
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Not to argue with you Hawg, but what's your reason for that?
I have three 2nd gens and six 3rd gens, the fit and finish on both generations is superb. I only see two differences, The bluing on all the 3rd gen is black, like older S&W's and on 'most' of the 2nd gens it's blue like a typical Uberti. If anything the 2nd gens are closer to Uberti's in appearance.
The 3rd gens have that gawd awful script on the back strap, it looks better with gold inlay, but I still don't care for it.
I think the 3rd gens may have a slight edge on finish of interior parts, but both are well made. Noticeably better than the Italians.
It seems that both gens well letter from Colt now and both seem to have the same value, with exceptions.
 
It seems that both gens well letter from Colt now and both seem to have the same value, with exceptions.
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Last I heard they wouldn't letter from Colt. Colt put out a disclaimer saying they didn't build them and wouldn't warranty them and I've heard several people say they tried to get them lettered and Colt won't letter them. Colt only licensed the 3rd gens and had no part in the building. Colt at least did the final fitting and finish on the 2nd gens.

No argument from me if you like them. You like ROA's too and I wouldn't soil my hands on one but differences are what makes the world go round. It'd be a mighty dull place if we all thought exactly alike.
 
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Gonna visit Taylor's showroom this Friday, though I've heard they are still waiting on a Uberti shipment. I've got a hankerin' for a Uberti Remington Navy. I'll get a Cimarron only if I can get an equivalent price. I'll call Buffalo Arms.
 
Last I heard they wouldn't letter from Colt. Colt put out a disclaimer saying they didn't build them and wouldn't warranty them and I've heard several people say they tried to get them lettered and Colt won't letter them. Colt only licensed the 3rd gens and had no part in the building. Colt at least did the final fitting and finish on the 2nd gens.
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I was under that impression also until recently. I have seen photo's of letters for 3rd gens, they could be faked, but why?

Lou Imperato was behind the building of both 2nd and 3rd gens. The only involvement that Colt had with 2nd gens was the 'finished' revolver was sent to Colt, and then shipped from Colts warehouse, that's why it letters, shipping record.
The same craftsman, in many cases, built both 2nd and 3rd gen revolvers.

Colt at least did the final fitting and finish on the 2nd gens.
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No work was preformed at Colt facilities or by Colt employee's. The final inspection was done by Colt emploee's at Lou Imperato's facility.
 
Quote Madcratebuilder
No work was preformed at Colt facilities or by Colt employee's. The final inspection was done by Colt emploee's at Lou Imperato's facility.
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Au Contraire - Early C series 2nd Gens were fit and finished in Hartford by Colt employees from parts obtained from Val Forgett (1971-1973). Starting in 1974, C series and F series 2nd Gens were assembled in NJ by Iver Johnson; but the case hardening of parts was still being accomplished by Colt in Connecticut.

"Regardless of 'C' or 'F' series manufacturing origin, Colt's performed on site final inspection and shipped all Colt Second Generation Percussion Revolvers. Additionally, they managed the sales, marketing, and manufacturing processes and accepted the product liability for these revolvers."

(Percussion Colt Revolvers - The Second Generation; Dennis Russell; 2007)
 
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I purchased a pair of 2nd Gen Colt 1851 Navy models when they were new and available. They were beautiful to look at and hold but they were not shooters. I live just outside of Hartford so I was able to take them back when they failed and that was just about evertime I shot them. One was so bad that it could not be repaired and it was replaced.
 
(Percussion Colt Revolvers - The Second Generation; Dennis Russell; 2007)
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That's interesting Fingers. I think your source is probably more reliable than mine. I stand corrected, thanks, I hate passing bad info. I need to pick up that book.
 
i have 2 uberti cattleman and 1 cimarron thunderer all blue and case hardened in 45 cal. all fine quality, no difference in the thunderer except for the shorter barrel and difffenert grip, bluing and cc are the same and the quality of both are the same good quality. and they work and can shoot well too.
 
Madcratebuilder - you can contact him at: Colt-Blackpowder@earthlink.net or chain-fire@earthlink.net It's $24.95 plus shipping. Well worth the price. The 2007 edition includes some infor on Sig Series guns as well
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Thanks fingers, I ordered it this afternoon, plus two other Colt books.
So, how many 2nd and 3rd gens are living in your safe now? I know last year you had a very nice collection going.
I'm working on finding some of the more unusual ones, at least I hope they are unusual. The Trapper, a fluted Dragoon, a fluted 1860 and a nickle 1860 are the best of my nine pieces.
How many different models of the 51 Navy got made? I have one with a Dragoon trigger guard, I think that's a first model, but have read some conflicting info about that.
I think I well sell my Italian Colts and concentrate on the 2nd and 3rd gen guns. Sure wish the prices on GB got more realistic.
 
MCB, I've got 30 2nd Gens; but only 26 are unfired NIB. Presently looking for an Electroless Nickel 1860, blank cylinder 1851, both of the round trigger guard '51s, one of 500 cased set Pocket Police, and matched pair Grant/Lee set.

My C series '51 Navies were used for CAS for about 3 years, so I need to pick up a couple NIB replacements. Need on with SN below 5000; one between 5000 and 12000 and one between 13000 and 19000 so I have one with each of the three different boxes they came in. I'm curently using a pair of 1861 Navies for CAS.

Different models of 2nd Gen '51 Navies were:

C1121 - Silver plated BS and Square back trigger guard
C1122 - Brass BS and Square back trigger guard
C1131 - Sliver plated BS and round trigger guard
C1132 - Brass BS and round trigger guard
C9001 - Robert E Lee Comm
C9002 - US Grant Comm
C9003 - Grant/Lee Matched pair set
F1100 - Silver plated BS and square back trigger guard
F1101 - Silver plated BS and square back trigger guard w/blank cylinder
F1110 - Stainless Steel

There were also limited edition engraved and gold inlaid models made in quantities between 25 and 174

You're right about the GB prices. I can not believe that a Cavalry set went for $3000 - 2007 Blue Book is only $1450. I know they havent gone up that much.
 
Buffalo Arms doesn't stock the Cimarron 1858 Remington Navy, but they are going to order one for me from Cimarron (Texas). The guy on the phone -- John -- said that they inspect them after they get them from Cimarron. $275.89 + shipping. The price goes up $10 tomorrow. :(
 
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The last two I ordered from Buffalo were non-stock too (3rd Dragoon Civilian and 4.5" Police). Takes a couple weeks, Buffalo only orders from Cimarron once a week, and then you've got travel time to Idaho from Texas, and to you from Idaho.
 
Well, my Cimarron Remington Navy arrived yesterday. The only difference between it and the generic Ubertis I've seen is the wording on the barrel -- the rest is the same. The front sight lines up with the rear notch and the cylinder gap is fine for a BP gun. The grips are quite nice and the hammer does not require an iron thumb to operate. The timing seems perfect.

A crappy indoor picture:

Gun001.jpg


The hammer has two small dents that I can't explain. Not sure if they are proofmarks.

Okay, now for the fun part. I immediately dunked it in a tub of 50% water, 50% apple cider vinegar to remove the shiny black finish. I stripped the finish on the grips and applied some Watco Danish Oil - Medium Walnut. The oil is drying while I'm here at work. There are a few spots where the black didn't come off and so I need to buy some blue remover today. The final step will be to smear some Perma Blue Paste all over the gun with a cleaning patch. This will give a pleasing, uneven patina. I won't be pitting the steel or denting the grips. I do this to all my cap & ball guns because I like the "well used but not abused look." Some people think I'm nuts, but most like the finished product. :)
 
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they are all getting the same guns from the same handful of Italian mfrs.

I have an ASM 1861 Navy Richards conversion 44 Colt- and it's been shooting just fine, after putting several hundred rounds through it- no failures.

one thing I noticed about these replicas though, the barrel wedge doesnt' go all the way through- if you force it in until the spring pops out the other side, it locks up the cylinder- not enough clearance.

and I've seen the same condition on Uberti-made guns assembled/finished by Colt- the 2nd-3rd generation Signature series guns.

I believe they are starting off with the wedge/barrel interface on the "tight" side, so if the gun is used heavy and eventually "shoots loose", then the pin can be pushed all the way in and still tighten it up- and extend the life of the gun before it needs 'smithing.

actually a good idea.

the real quality issue is this- a gun with a gas check ring/seal on front of cylinder, will be a better shooting gun with BP, due to eliminating the BP fouling of the cylinder pin. I believe Uberti has put gas seals on all their cartridge guns now. A REALLY good idea.

If the Pietta doesnt' have a gas seal, then the Uberti is the better buy.
 
one thing I noticed about these replicas though, the barrel wedge doesnt' go all the way through- if you force it in until the spring pops out the other side, it locks up the cylinder- not enough clearance.
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They are not supposed to go all the way through. The spring is only to keep the wedge from falling completely out of the barrel lug when removed from the frame. It catches the lip of the screw above the wedge. That screw is meant to be tight, not an adjustment.
 
Captain Crossman, you're nothing but a bundle of negativity and most of your posts are erroneous. You apparently have very little experience with bp revolvers. Why do you even come here?:confused:
 
fineredmist said quote:

"I purchased a pair of 2nd Gen Colt 1851 Navy models when they were new and available. They were beautiful to look at and hold but they were not shooters. I live just outside of Hartford so I was able to take them back when they failed and that was just about evertime I shot them. One was so bad that it could not be repaired and it was replaced"




one thing a C-B shooter learns really quick- a Colt open tops look great, but aren't much as shooters. The Remington '58, now that's a shooter- stronger, reliable- the Rem runs rings around the open tops.
 
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