Uberti 1858 quest for positive lock.

C

CajunPowder

Moderator
Two months ago I ordered a Pietta 1858 New Army Model 44 in stainless steel with the 8" barrel. It was on sale for $299.00 at "C's" online sporting goods "Department store".

- It was date marked as a 2009.
- The cylinder pin was loose as a goose at the ears and where it inserted into the back of the frame.
- The cylinder rattled like a snake ready to strike.
- The cylinder over rotated past two of the cylinder notches. Scored the cylinder up real good right off the bat.
- The daylight coming through the flash gap was like a kid's kaleidescope, real purty, changed shape as I cycled through the chambers and everything.
- After removing the cylinder, getting the cylinder back in was an olympic event. Fine training!
- The loading lever at the tip had 1/4" of play in either direction.
- The hinge where the loading lever met the loading rod reminded me of the cymbals on a tambourine, looked like they were made in Tora Bora.
- The tip of the hammer would not fit into any of the safety notches and slipped off with any pressure against the cylinder. I mean ... crazy!
- The front sight was bent slightly to the left
- The interior of the frame was scored and ragged with file and tool marks, disgusting.

I sent it back to Cabela's the next day and it took 3 weeks to get a refund.

Dey said dey wuz sorree yeah! That cost $19 bucks in shipping.

So let me take a breath and thank all of you for supporting this forum. I've learned a tremendous amount about this pistol, about Uberti and Pietta and Euroarms, etc... from all of you. I really enjoy learning from the folks in this forum. Now I just want an 1858 as good as the ones you have! :D

I want one like they show in them nice pitchers on the websites!

I decided I would not risk ordering a Pietta again so I ordered an Uberti of the same type from "T's" except I upgraded to the target model. The rear sight fell off on the second shot. I thought I might lose a range buddy to multiple hernia brought on by hysterical laughter.

I sent it back the next day, big disappointment. I got a prompt refund. Generally it was a little better than puke and we weren't scairt to blast a bit with it. The barn door survived.

I recently ordered the same make and model Uberti from "D's". I had them promise me that the gunsmith would select from over 40 units they had in stock to make sure they got me one that locked up good and tight. I told them I would be more than willing to sacrifice a bit of beauty in the finish and wood to metal fit, etc... for a revolver that locked up good and tight.

I am composing them a letter which outlines the following:

1. Cylinder timing:

- the bolt is marking the cylinder, (it's doing this at consistent points on the cylinder almost exactly as it should).

- the bolt is falling too late and has peened the lead in edge of the bolt notches on the cylinder, (from cocking the pistol).

- as well, the bolt is too short on one side, or the bolt face is not level, (it's not making full contact with the interior of the bolt notch)


- close observation of the bolt face shows shiny on one side only, (shiny narrow triangle across the bolt face pointing to the non-contact area).


2. Cylinder lock up:

- because the bolt is not engaging the interiors of the bolt notches completely, the cylinder does not lock up tight at full cock or hammer down position.

- the bolt is engaging only one side of the bolt notch on the cylinder, thus some lateral cylinder play, (rattle).

- holding the piece by the barrel at the base pin ears, (trapping the base pin ears), and lightly tapping the butt in my hand I hear the slight rattle.

- sanding or filing the bolt down, (to level the bolt), will shorten the bolt. I think the bolt needs to be replaced it may be defective.

- there could be many reasons the bolt is behaving in this manner.

3. Very rough and coarse filing and/or grinding on the underside of the topstrap:

- goes without saying that cosmetically it moves the revolver closer to the "ugly" level.

- this very rough surface will collect black powder residue quickly, (it will cake), and will resist cleaning, it will pit and corrode quickly.

- the revolver was ordered in stainless steel to make cleaning easier and to avoid these issues, (and because the stainless is shiny and pretty).

- that this rough area will collect fouling much more rapidly will cause it to impede the function of the cylinder more rapidly during extended sessions.

There are significant file and tool markings in the bottom of the interior of the frame as well. Both the underside of the topstrap and the bottom of the interior of the frame show oxidation and darkening as a result of being left unpolished. The surfaces would be eaten up quickly by black powder residue that would be nearly impossible to clean out of these surfaces, pitting would result quickly.

There is a significant pit in the rear of the frame just to the left of the hammer, it's a big pit and will collect powder residue and other detrius and will hold moisture which will hasten the increasing depth of that pit. I figure that's about as much cosmetic sacrifice as one would have to make in order to assure the excellent mechanics of the cylinder and good tolerances all around. Everytime you look down the sights of the pistol, you see the pit and it will only get bigger with time and probably rapidly. Cleaning it out regularly with a pick will produce a hole quickly. I didn't expect this type of serious cosmetic flaw in a stainless steel revolver. And that sacrifice didn't get me positive cylinder lock.

Is this really one of the best out of almost 50 Uberti revolvers of this model?

4. Another area of concern with respect to tolerances is the installation of the front sight. There is some real daylight between the underside of the frontsight ramp and the top of the barrel. Three new $20 bills fit under the rear of the ramp. This area under the frontsight ramp, (especially in front of the dovetail near the muzzle), will pick up powder residue and will hold dirt and moisture and will hasten the pitting and degredation of the top of the barrel under the frontsight assembly. I do not see any method normally used in the regular cleaning of stainless steel black powder revolvers that will facilitate the care of this area.

It is unfortunate that I and others found the trigger exceptional and crisp, truly a fine, fine trigger and everybody who has looked at the piece lamented giving it up because of the trigger. The action is generally a pleasure also. I can only expect an exchange that will truly be a joy.

=========================================

So ... I'm not going to buffalo, and then midway, then texasjacks.com, then timbuktu and giving all of them a chance.

I've decided to stick with this vendor until I get a decent revolver from them. When I send this revolver back I will have spent $70 on shipping and return shipping and no joy.

I figure I'll give these folks at "D" one more try and then take what I get and spend $100-$150 on it at the gunsmith's.

I'm looking for suggestions on what to do here as I'm the point man for three other gentlemen who are all interested in getting one of these pistols. They are range buddies and one wants a cheap, efficient solution for putting down feral swine he is trapping off his property with one shot at close range.

Eventually, after we get 4 decent target model revolvers we would like to start shooting matches, hunt, etc ... We want to smoke some powder yeah? :D

I'm trying to make some lemonade here, anybody want a cup? It's free!
 
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Funny post, CP

I have sixteen revolvers and all of them have some side to side movement of the loading lever. 1/4 is a bit much. The rest of the problems you spoke of are distressing.

I have seen a couple new pistols in which I felt they could have taken an extra fifteen minutes at the factory to get a better finish. The inner surfaces of the frame on a Remington in my experience are frequently overlooked. I can smooth up some brass (I know yours is SS) myself but it bothers me when I examine a pistol that was blue before it was polished correctly. I think most manufacturers are getting (or have gotten) better at this.

I worry that "D"s told you they would sell your the best one out of forty. It is bad business no matter who gets the best one because that means somebody has to settle for second best. And how much does the worst one cost? It is an absolute admission that they will knowingly sell crap to the customer.

As regards pigs, I got invited to go wild boar hunting when I was stationed on Guam in my younger days. I was befriended by a couple of the locals who like to shoot. I thought it might be some fun. Then they told me that you hunt pigs with a knife. I didn't have a .44 caliber knife so I passed n the offer.

Box up the lemonade and send it to Chesapeake. I am thirsty.
 
Sorry your having problems getting a good revolver. Keep in mind that the Italian revolvers may need work out of the box, some more than others.

The lateral movement at the end of your loading lever is normal.

- as well, the bolt is too short on one side, or the bolt face is not level, (it's not making full contact with the interior of the bolt notch)
Click to expand...

Again this is normal, the bolt is slightly off-set from the cylinder pin center line. The top of the bolt is at an angle for full contact in the cylinder notch.

Rear sights on these need to be tightened carefully, very small screw size. I would loc-tite after you get them set.

All my 1858's are Pietta or ASM, I haven't shoot a Uberti version.

The poor machining inside the frame is normal, this should be smoothed with a hand slot stone and files. The brass grips are an easy repair, sand/file to shape then polish.


Think of these boxed revolvers as kit guns that need finishing and you well not be as disappointed. It's sad to say that, but it's the truth unfortunately. Good luck.
 
I see two problems:

1) the bolt may need to be reworked/replaced, although the description doesn't lead me to think the problem is serious. It's not good, but also not terribly unusual. I'd simply get another bolt, shape it to fit better and proceed.

2) expectations are a bit too high. These are Italian replicas made for a mass market, not custom finished guns, and I remind you of your charge to the supplier that you'd accept finish flaws for better function. Given your description of the cosmetic problems I'd say you got what you asked for. And what you paid for (not including the shipping fees, which are not acceptable).

By the way, the statements about powder residue caking, filling up pits and causing corrosion might be true if the gun were never cleaned, but bp residue is easy to remove with plain water; it does not stay in pits and crevices if the gun is regularly cleaned.
 
In my Pietta '58, which is just the basic .44 New Army model, there is a little wobble in the loading lever, but it's not ever caused a problem and everyone else seems to have it.

As far as the other issues you've noticed, that sucks. Is there anyway you can just go in person to some one of the stores and check them out in person?

Another option if you really want and 1858-style pistol is that you could find a used Ruger Old Army. There are a few different models, but they are all basically a worked-over version of the 1858. Everyone I've talked to says they've got the best quality, fit, finish, etc. on the market. But they're more expensive, they're now out of production, and they're NOTICEABLY different from some of the other 1858 reproductions. Still, it might be worth chance.
 
This is a Pietta I bought new from Deercreek Products about 4 years ago
for 174.00 at Friendship. Spent another 400.00 on it for a target barrel
and line bored. Tight, perfect. A shooter. total cost 600.00 Worth it YES.
ThisOne.jpg
 
I've been lucky, I think, in that two of the three Piettas that I've bought have been just fine out of the box. The third, an 1860 Colt, had lockup problems - the bolt would engage the cylinder stops too soon and kind of jam up right on the edge of them, causing the whole gun to lock up. The "fix" was that I disassembled everything and put it back together again. Go figure.

I won't make any excuses for the Italian reproductions - they are what they are, which is a low cost, mass produced copy of century and a half old designs. I suppose that you could go into the purchase with the idea that you may have to spend some more money to do some tuning, major or minor, depending on the condition of the gun. I know that doesn't seem right - you expect a functioning product out of the box. But that's how these guns go. I think that most of the time (most being more than 50%) everything works fine, but some of them have problems varying from slight to major. It's also possible that I have terribly low standards (but I don't think so :p.)

Horseman308's two suggestions may be your best options. Of course, if there's no store in your area, I guess that really makes it one suggestion, but I guess that there's a reason why the ROAs are expensive!

Best of luck to you - don't give up!
 
Horseman308 + 1

Yes....Go get yourself an ROA. It doesn't really pass for a Remington look-alike. It is close but won't pass.

Everybody needs an ROA.

I say again...

Everybody needs an ROA.

The prices on used ones are down now.
 
Hawg,

To each his own. You have been around a long time and you know what you are talking about. If you don't like em, there must be a very good reason.

I like handling my Colts. I like cleaning my Remingtons. I like shooting my ROA.
 
Doc, the Ruger is a good gun, well made and dependable. I just rank it up there with the .44 caliber 51 Navy. It's a gun that never was, historically speaking that is. I don't care for the Ruger SAA's either even tho they resemble a Colt the lock work is nothing like one.

Kwhi, I'll give ya a dollar for it. Maybe I can trade it for a ragged out Uberti.:D
 
Greetings CajunPowder, and welcome aboard.

You are not alone. I too have the same gun from the same source, and with similar problems.

I suspect the sight wasn't bent, but the barrel wasn't aligned properly. If you look at the gun carefully, the flats are probably out of square with the rest of the frame. My first gun was so far off, I had to return it. The second one is better but not perfect.

With regard to the hammer not fitting the safety notches, I posted "Product Safety warning - Pietta Remington" a few weeks ago. In my case the hammer will fit in the notches, but a sharp shoulder on the back of the cylinder prevented the hammer from entering the notches. An eMail to Pietta about this condition remains unanswered. You solution could be: Chamfer the corner on the cylinder shoulder, relieve the bottom of the trigger to clear the shoulder (what I did), or send it back (what I should have done).

We all appreciate the fact that reproduction guns can be significantly improved by putting in the time that the factory didn't in fine tuning and finishing. However, IMHO, this shouldn't extend to the safety devices -- they should function right out of the box. It's one thing to tinker with a new gun to make it smoother, more accurate and prettier, but safer shouldn't be on that list.
 
Get one of these.

cch.jpg


It costs a lil more but has the smoothest action and lightest hammer of any 58 Remington I've seen. Fit and finish are great too.
 
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