45 Dragoon
New member
Ive said all im going to on this. Not going to argue with a brick! (Even ignorant ones)
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uberti 1858 barrel problem
- Thread starter Hardy
- Start date
Are you referring to this?
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=473771&highlight=conversion+cylinder
The owner posted on several "cowboy" forums too. Figured out he probably double charged his smokeless reloads. That's a problem with the ammo not the revolver. Would've blown up a modern gun too. A squib can happen in any gun. Even a cap & ball revolver. I had one once in a Uberti 1862 police revolver. Bulged the barrel too. Had that gun for years after and put God knows how many more shots through it before I sold it. Like 45 Dragoon said, modern cap & ball guns are made of better steel than "old west" cartridge guns were in the 1800s. I imagine that since R&D and Kirst have been making "drop in" conversion cylinders, thousands of folks have bought and enjoyed them. I have read about only a couple of blow ups, and both were due to reloading errors that would've done the same to any modern gun. So to claim that the cylinders are now "dangerous" because you had a squib, which is an ammo problem not a gun problem, is a pretty ignorant.
If you're afraid of your conversion cylinder now, you're better off selling it and making some of your $$ back.
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Driftwood Johnson
New member
Howdy
I agree, this is hogwash. Modern conversion cylinders are made of arsenal grade 4150 and 4140 steel. This is better steel than is used for the cylinders and barrels of most replica C&B revolvers.
These cylinders are proofed for mild Smokeless Cowboy loads. You would be hard pressed to blow one up with a Black Powder load. Firing a round after lodging a bullet in the bore is an entirely different matter. Create a barrel obstruction and all bets are off. If a round doesn't sound right, it probably wasn't. Don't just peek down the barrel, drop a rod down to make sure the bore is clear. I shoot my 45 Schofield rounds in my 1858 Remmies with their conversion cylinders all the time. I usually limit them to about 28 grains of FFg and a 200 grain bullet, but if I wanted to I would have no problem shooting 45 Colt with 35 grains of FFg and a 250 grain bullet.
I agree, this is hogwash. Modern conversion cylinders are made of arsenal grade 4150 and 4140 steel. This is better steel than is used for the cylinders and barrels of most replica C&B revolvers.
These cylinders are proofed for mild Smokeless Cowboy loads. You would be hard pressed to blow one up with a Black Powder load. Firing a round after lodging a bullet in the bore is an entirely different matter. Create a barrel obstruction and all bets are off. If a round doesn't sound right, it probably wasn't. Don't just peek down the barrel, drop a rod down to make sure the bore is clear. I shoot my 45 Schofield rounds in my 1858 Remmies with their conversion cylinders all the time. I usually limit them to about 28 grains of FFg and a 200 grain bullet, but if I wanted to I would have no problem shooting 45 Colt with 35 grains of FFg and a 250 grain bullet.
bedbugbilly
New member
Without getting in to the midst of the "fray" here . . .
Hardy - you say you were shooting "cowboy loads" but unless I missed it, I don't see you telling exactly what you are shooting? Was this ammo that you loaded? BP or smokeless?
It sounds to me like you had a "squib" and just didn't catch it - that can happen with any handgun. If you were shooting rounds that you loaded . . . what are the chances that you had an empty casing with no powder in it? Just the pressure from a primer going off will shove a lead bullet into the bore but not out.
I agree with the fact that these conversions are not "dangerous" . . . . the only danger is the "driver behind the wheel". . . and I don't mean that as criticism of you. If you are shooting reloads that you have done - that's why it is important to check your casings . . . both for no powder and well as a double charge. When firing, it's important to keep alert and notice such things as a weak charge, no recoil or reduced recoil, etc. and if there is any doubt, stop and check. Going from a "conversion" to a regular revolver that is designed front he get go for metallic cartridges is not going to take care of the problems of squib loads . . . only the shooter can prevent a problem if it happens.
Hardy - you say you were shooting "cowboy loads" but unless I missed it, I don't see you telling exactly what you are shooting? Was this ammo that you loaded? BP or smokeless?
It sounds to me like you had a "squib" and just didn't catch it - that can happen with any handgun. If you were shooting rounds that you loaded . . . what are the chances that you had an empty casing with no powder in it? Just the pressure from a primer going off will shove a lead bullet into the bore but not out.
I agree with the fact that these conversions are not "dangerous" . . . . the only danger is the "driver behind the wheel". . . and I don't mean that as criticism of you. If you are shooting reloads that you have done - that's why it is important to check your casings . . . both for no powder and well as a double charge. When firing, it's important to keep alert and notice such things as a weak charge, no recoil or reduced recoil, etc. and if there is any doubt, stop and check. Going from a "conversion" to a regular revolver that is designed front he get go for metallic cartridges is not going to take care of the problems of squib loads . . . only the shooter can prevent a problem if it happens.
DD4lifeusmc
New member
barrels and such
the barrels of these guns are NOT made for shooting jacketed slugs.
These barrels are much softer steel than modern ones.
Neither Pietta or Uberti recommend jacketed.
Nor a very hard cast lead.
Why do you think all their manuals indicate PURE LEAD?????????
Yes the conversion cylinders are tougher, But they for most part do not recommend pressures to exceed, I think, 12,000 PSI.
Even a mild powder in a 45 colt / long colt can exceed that pressure.
Remember with higher pressure comes an initial higher velocity.
The barrels are NOT designed for that high velocity. Because you have to remember friction is involved.
And these frames while better steel than 160 yr ago still are not as strong as those of modern smokeless powder cartridge guns.
They don't have to be, as they were designed to stand up under the pressures
and recoil of BP or a sub.
Can you shoot the conversion? yeah. Can you get away with a mild smokeless in the conversion in the BP gun. Yeah.
All the way up until the next one was one too many.
You want to shoot 45 colt / long colt?
Go ahead. But buy a gun designed to handle that loading to begin with.
That or have a damn good insurance policy for when something does go wrong.
Me I would not want to be standing next to you at a range, when that cylinder decided to let go.
the barrels of these guns are NOT made for shooting jacketed slugs.
These barrels are much softer steel than modern ones.
Neither Pietta or Uberti recommend jacketed.
Nor a very hard cast lead.
Why do you think all their manuals indicate PURE LEAD?????????
Yes the conversion cylinders are tougher, But they for most part do not recommend pressures to exceed, I think, 12,000 PSI.
Even a mild powder in a 45 colt / long colt can exceed that pressure.
Remember with higher pressure comes an initial higher velocity.
The barrels are NOT designed for that high velocity. Because you have to remember friction is involved.
And these frames while better steel than 160 yr ago still are not as strong as those of modern smokeless powder cartridge guns.
They don't have to be, as they were designed to stand up under the pressures
and recoil of BP or a sub.
Can you shoot the conversion? yeah. Can you get away with a mild smokeless in the conversion in the BP gun. Yeah.
All the way up until the next one was one too many.
You want to shoot 45 colt / long colt?
Go ahead. But buy a gun designed to handle that loading to begin with.
That or have a damn good insurance policy for when something does go wrong.
Me I would not want to be standing next to you at a range, when that cylinder decided to let go.
45 Dragoon
New member
Pure lead is recommended so you can load it. Ever try to load a hard alloy in a c&b?
Otherwise, I refer you to post #21.
Otherwise, I refer you to post #21.
OK maybe the remarks was hogwash I bow to the more knowledgeble!
The barrel appeared clear without enough light for careful examination and no pinlight. That was my fault and also careless-but I believed the slug cleared but left lead residue that caused the next fire obstucted and heated the barrel. THAT IS IF THE GUN IS SAFE WITH THESE With no obstructions. The bullets were long colts less than 800ftLBS for conversion cylinders and the cylinder looks fine. They were no reloads-just straight out of the box called cowboy loads. All I asked in the last part of this thread was it possible the bullet funked and left too much lead inside and the beginning was to see if proficient cowboy gun users felt about this. I did not mean to turn it to hogswash. According to my wife I've always tried too many things. Sorry if I frustrated some--I meant well. SO are conversion cylinders for these ok? That was the real intention of my post
WBH
The barrel appeared clear without enough light for careful examination and no pinlight. That was my fault and also careless-but I believed the slug cleared but left lead residue that caused the next fire obstucted and heated the barrel. THAT IS IF THE GUN IS SAFE WITH THESE With no obstructions. The bullets were long colts less than 800ftLBS for conversion cylinders and the cylinder looks fine. They were no reloads-just straight out of the box called cowboy loads. All I asked in the last part of this thread was it possible the bullet funked and left too much lead inside and the beginning was to see if proficient cowboy gun users felt about this. I did not mean to turn it to hogswash. According to my wife I've always tried too many things. Sorry if I frustrated some--I meant well. SO are conversion cylinders for these ok? That was the real intention of my post
WBH
People have been using conversion cylinders for C&B revolvers for over a decade. These cylinders are still very popular with "cowboy" shooters, many of whom use converted revolvers as their main match guns and put tens of thousands of rounds through them annually without any problems. As long as you use black powder ammo or "cowboy" loads in smokeless ammo you are just fine. It still sounds like you had a bullet that didn't clear the barrel, and fired another one behind it. I do not think lead fouling could be bad enough to cause the barrel to bulge. And as I stated before, a squib can happen in ANY firearm.
Thank you MZ I meant no harm so I guess I will get a new barrel after all..this info makes me be more careful if I shoot the conversions again. One thing though--As was mentioned before--Pietta wants a 17 grain charge in their 36. That might not be enough to send the slug out. I tried it once and the cylinder didnt rotate since 1 half was stuck in the cone--so that light of charge might be more dangerous than what they recommend.The slug could have gotten in the barrel and the next bang might have cost me my life or just a banana peeled barrel.
Well again on my apoligies fror getting on other things than whether a conversion cylinder is safe and how the buldge in the barrel ACTUALLY occured but thanks for all the feedback. dang I thought the barrel was cleared. But like a lot of things we all experience in life, We are sometimes wrong. BUT I don't think 15gs out of a 36C/B will do it. But I always thought laugh in would outlive Hee Haw so what do I know.
wbh---- emailme at bhardy360 @aol.com i have my store's final guns i want some but will sell the others You can check most of them on old posts of mine on sell or trade So peace my friends I love em but rarely shoot them since I'm now back ramping up our old band. As a favor, please google the J Teal Band--and I will love you for it. And we'll talk about guns again.
wbh
wbh---- emailme at bhardy360 @aol.com i have my store's final guns i want some but will sell the others
You can check most of them on old posts of mine on sell or trade So peace my friends I love em but rarely shoot them since I'm now back ramping up our old band. As a favor, please google the J Teal Band--and I will love you for it. And we'll talk about guns again.wbh
45 Dragoon
New member
Well, OK then but, don't go saying things are dangerous when you don't fully understand the situation. Folks have been shooting conversions (they've been around since the 1800s) for a long time with awesome results. I talk with hmmm ( we'll say folks that would know) and I wouldn't post lies. As long as you adhere to the manufactures recomendations, you shouldn't have any more worries with conversions as with any other revolver.
My guns have had many thousands of rounds through them and I would put them up against any new S.A.s. I'm very proud of them and what I do so it does get under my skin when somebody starts hacking on the guns that bring me the most joy!!
I try to help folks as often as I can but will run to the front to protect the reputation of these manufacturers and what I take huge pride in.
Hope you enjoy shooting your conversion /coversions (everybody should have a few!!) and be carefull!!
45 Dragoon
www.goonsgunworks.com
Wow, took me too long to type and I see your post !
I will check out the band. ( btw, i'd pick laugh in too, that Goldie is something else!!!)
My guns have had many thousands of rounds through them and I would put them up against any new S.A.s. I'm very proud of them and what I do so it does get under my skin when somebody starts hacking on the guns that bring me the most joy!!
I try to help folks as often as I can but will run to the front to protect the reputation of these manufacturers and what I take huge pride in.
Hope you enjoy shooting your conversion /coversions (everybody should have a few!!) and be carefull!!
45 Dragoon
www.goonsgunworks.com
Wow, took me too long to type and I see your post !
I will check out the band. ( btw, i'd pick laugh in too, that Goldie is something else!!!)
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OK Dragoon I get your drift. I didn't say they were dangerous. I only asked ??
Why are you picking on me Some folks say they are safe and some don't. This thread was intentend for advise---not to offend. If They are safe then I guess you know what you are talking about if they are not then some have different opinions. I think there was a lot of valuable comments and maybe I had a squib-but didn't think so. I really don't want someone talking down to me when I was just trying to find out some things By Guys, my some internet friends, don't have time for this!!!
Why are you picking on me Some folks say they are safe and some don't. This thread was intentend for advise---not to offend. If They are safe then I guess you know what you are talking about if they are not then some have different opinions. I think there was a lot of valuable comments and maybe I had a squib-but didn't think so. I really don't want someone talking down to me when I was just trying to find out some things By Guys, my some internet friends, don't have time for this!!!
Ok Dragoon You got my dander up a little but I'm fine. You are right--maybe
I didn't lie. I swear the barrel was clear but after all the posts maybe I thought it was. Maybe I saw enough light from the reflection of my thumb nail under the cone w/hammer cocked and no cylinder in it. I now believe I made a mistake. So Dragoon I think I need to apologize It still puzzles me that I saw light down from the bottom to the top and still maybe had a stuck slug. Do you think I would have kept shooting if I thought the barrel was cloged--that is why I posted that maybe some of the slug cleared out?! Or what happened?
WBH
I didn't lie. I swear the barrel was clear but after all the posts maybe I thought it was. Maybe I saw enough light from the reflection of my thumb nail under the cone w/hammer cocked and no cylinder in it. I now believe I made a mistake. So Dragoon I think I need to apologize It still puzzles me that I saw light down from the bottom to the top and still maybe had a stuck slug. Do you think I would have kept shooting if I thought the barrel was cloged--that is why I posted that maybe some of the slug cleared out?! Or what happened?
WBH
45 Dragoon
New member
Well we keep typing at the same time!!
Nope, dont think you would keep shooting. Like I said, I get lathered up when sombody starts throwing the "not safe " blanket out about something that I'm connected with.
The gun world already has enough folks that want to shut us down, we dont need any from our side giving them more ammo, warranted or not.
Thank you for the apology and likewise, i didnt mean to be so quick to jump. You are talking about my favorite revolvers ya know!! Lol
www.goonsgunworks.com
Nope, dont think you would keep shooting. Like I said, I get lathered up when sombody starts throwing the "not safe " blanket out about something that I'm connected with.
The gun world already has enough folks that want to shut us down, we dont need any from our side giving them more ammo, warranted or not.
Thank you for the apology and likewise, i didnt mean to be so quick to jump. You are talking about my favorite revolvers ya know!! Lol
www.goonsgunworks.com
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I saw it---cool. I just meant that the gun barrel had buldges and wasn't sure what caused them. I thought it just overheated but wasn,t sure. The thread at least offered to be careful--I hope. Thanks dragoon. I have an infected tooth and too much on my plate--didn't mean to get mad. I'd be glad to send you the barrel if you want to and replace it with another uberti but I'm now trying to set bridges and other parts on guitars where I don't want to work on guns
ok Maybe I'll wear steel toe boots but I might miss and shoot my leg. Dang I opened up a big can of worms here.
Just hunt me down at #4 355 Whitney Rd, Sptg, Sc and drag me off to the swamps of Louisiana fer the gators. Wait--dont do that
Wbh
ps
I'm going to call Taylors and order a new barrel for that 1858. If I didn't like conversions I wouldn't own 3 much less sold them for 2 years. I just wanted you to give feedback on them on my barrel. I got it thanks
Just hunt me down at #4 355 Whitney Rd, Sptg, Sc and drag me off to the swamps of Louisiana fer the gators. Wait--dont do that
Wbh
ps
I'm going to call Taylors and order a new barrel for that 1858. If I didn't like conversions I wouldn't own 3 much less sold them for 2 years. I just wanted you to give feedback on them on my barrel. I got it thanks