True stopping power of a .380

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Everyone has their own personal choices, so I say whatever makes you comfortable will work. From there different circumstances will take you through whatever course you may follow. I carry anything from a .45 auto to 9x18 with no worries and eventually hope to add a .32 to my list as soon as possible.

One thing I have definitely learned is that no caliber is 100 percent reliable as a manstopper. I don't care if you have a Thunder Ranch special .45 Auto with extended mags shooting Federal HS 230gr JHP's...it's not going to do the job 100 percent of the time.

In my job I often see inmates with multiple bullet wounds in them. Many of the wounds have been center mass shots. Some inmates even take pride that they have survived their experiences as a "badge of courage". Just today I spoke with an inmate and got to examine his head where he took a .38 special round to his right lobe area and survived to come to prison. Not long ago I saw another inmate with four .40 S&W bullet holes in his chest.

I would use the largest caliber possible that I could comfortably shoot and carry and make damn sure I can do the job with it if the need arises. You can't ask for more than that. In the right hands, the .380 is more than adequate.

Good SHooting
RED
 
"I...shot 25 rounds in sucession of 9mm and my wrist began to hurt, whereas I shot 30 rounds of .380 and I was smiling from ear to ear wanting to shoot more. I also shot much more accuratly with the .380, and since you say shot placement is key, I must have made the correct choice. I don't see where anybody I know (in person) would say .380 is close to 9mm in recoil, I would have to say that it feels like 9mm has twice the recoil."

There you have it. Go with what works for you.

By the way, what model .380 gun are you using?



As for the argument that .380's are small guns....I don't look around at .380's much, but are there any that are slimmer or smaller than a Kahr P9 and hold 8 rounds? And are there any smaller and lighter than a Kel Tec P11 and hold 11-13 rounds? I am just asking because those are my pocket guns and I have not seen any smaller guns, in a caliber that I would carry.

Well, actually my pocket gun is a Glock 33 which holds 11 rounds of 357 SIG, but the others are there if I can't carry the Glock :)
 
The model gun I'm using

I'm actually using an exact Bersa clone, a.k.a. Firestorm Thunder 380. It can just about fit in the palm of my hand.
 
.380 recoil

I just had to get in on this one since for some reason I've amassed quite a collection of .380's. For several years I carried either my Colt Pony, or my Grendel P-12 (snicker if you must, but the bad boy is a shooter) and neither of them had much bite. But I also have an AMT Backup that I think hurts more to shoot it than to be shot with it. I carry a 9 now, but I still take a couple of .380's everytime to the range.
 
The .380 is perfectly fine for self defense.

Glad to see most people here agree that the .380 is fine for self defense.

MOST self defense scenarios end as soon as the bad guy sees your gun. He isn't going to be able to tell what caliber it is and he won't care, he's going to see that you are armed and run away.

SOME self defense scenarios require you to shoot. When MOST people are shot, they give up immediately. Getting shot with anything hurts like hell, not to mention the panic of thinking "I just got shot".

FEW self defense scenarios involve your attacker continuing to fight after being shot. If the person is severely mentally impaired or on painkilling drugs like opiates or dissociatives, he MAY be able to fight through the pain. In those rare cases, death or physical disability is the only thing that will stop him and then yes, bigger is better.

In reality, YOU, the individual, are very unlikely to ever need to use a gun in self defense. The rarity of needing a gun for self defense combined with the rarity of caliber making an important difference means that caliber really doesn't matter for the civilian. Its different for military and police who are more likely to need to shoot and deal with barriers, armor, and range but civilian self defense shooting usually means putting a round or two in a soft target and running away, in those cases .380 is perfectly fine.

In conclusion, the .380 is fine for SD. Carry whatever makes you feel safe, confident, and comfortable. The only caliber I recommend against is the .22LR, not because of its power but because both guns and ammo in .22 tend to be much less reliable.
 
Lehigh Defense XP bullets (extreme penetrator) meet FBI standards in gel penetration, and they deliver as wide as 9mm permanent wound tracks for a good 8 inches, like 1" wide as I recall (15-17 inches of total penetration). If your gun can run those reliably, and many do (not Kahr CW380), then it's about as good as a 9mm hollow point, with no chance that the hollow point won't expand, because there is no hollow point.

If you consider moving to 9mm, look at the CM9 by Kahr, because that's just a bit bigger than the 380's (smaller than the G43) and is totally reliable from what I hear.
 
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I wouldn't feel under-powered carrying anything loaded with 95 gr .380 Winchester Ranger-T.

As for the whole caliber debate. There is a reason that 45 ACP is quintessentially American. While the rest of the world was/is content with 9mm sized cartridges, the 'ole bigger is better argument will always live on in the United States. You can thank the Moro Rebellion for that.

Note, I am a 45 ACP person regardless...

Unless your an ace with big bore magnum rounds and the Mozambique drill, I'd pick the caliber you are most comfortable handling, has the largest carrying capacity, and you are the most accurate with (shot placement is king as others have pointed out).
 
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Anyone talking about ABSOLUTE under ANY conditions is a kool-aid drinker !
My experiences with the .380 on small game has been less than impressive.Your life ! Facebook now has LIKE and DISLIKE , finally !
 
One thing I know for sure.....I had to look up necroposting..:D. .380 certainly fills a role, I like them, just can't grasp why ammo cost more than 9mm, supply and demand I guess.
 
Whenever this subject comes up I am always reminded of the damage one John Hinckley Jr. did with a lowly .22LR revolver.

Where you hit means a lot more than what you hit with.
 
Recent studies tell us that all of the more popular pistol rounds from .38 Special and PMM Parabellum through .357 Magnum and .45 ACP have adequate terminal ballistics for self defense when modern premium grade bonded jacketed hollow point bullets are used.

That means that the bullets can penetrate clothing and an arm and enter an assailant's torso at any reasonable angle and still do sufficient damage to effect a physiological stop, provided that the bullets damage something critical within the body.

One notes that the .380 ACP is not an any of the lists. That's because of penetration when expanding bullets are used.

That does not mean that a .380 will necessarily fail. It simply means that most of the defensive rounds available rounds do not pass the tests in the FBI protocol. It may not penetrate enough with expanding bullets, depending on what the bullets strike first and how they enter the body.
 
Holy Zombie thread Batman...

Anyway, here are my thoughts (Disclaimer.. I have and carry a 380 at times)

I view the 380 as the bare minimum for a defensive caliber and I understand its limitations due to lack of penetration. Many other calibers are superior in terminal performance. No handgun caliber is the hammer of Thor. But some do better then others in consistent penetration to vitals in odd angled shots.

The 380 that i carry is a Kel-tec P3AT and i only carry that at the gym. The pocket clip allows ultra discrete carry clipped to my gym shorts or sweats at the 1:00 position. I am giving up depth of penetration for ultra concealability. Thats the trade off that i have weighed and decided on.

Except in that unique situation a larger caliber handgun is always preferred (G19 or G26, in the same position)

I fall into the camp of guys that has had to use a handgun on humans and want as many rounds and enough penetration to reach vitals as i can stuff into a reasonably carried package.

If recoil with the larger calibers is a problem then carry what you can shoot well. Only hits count and good hits are best. Ammo that drives deep enough is paramount
 
I've replaced my lcp with an lc9s--but I used to hand-load some hot xpb's in 380 which no matter what they say I would not want to be hit by.
 
Funny thing is....in 2001, when the OP was made, I think my answer would have been not enough for 380 and 9mm.

With the last 15 years of bullet tuning, there are many fine 9mm loads. As well as hot 380 XTP loads are good too.


TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION: THE .380 IS PROBABLY AS GOOD AS ANY HANDGUN IN TERMS OF STOPPING POWER BECAUSE NO HANDGUN CALIBER HAS BEEN KNOWN TO BE A COMPLETELY RELIABLE FIGHT STOPPER IN ALL SITUATIONS.
Click to expand...

I would argue that 45 Auto with 230 GD's HAS proven itself reliable, even with bad company!
 
I have an LCP in my back pocket daily. It's not my lightweight officers ACP, or my Charter arms Bulldog 44. But its in my pocket. I can shoot it quite well.

It's like wearing a watch, sort of there and no more.

Next up is a Smith airweight snubby 38 in an ankle holster, then the 44 or 45.

It's just a personal choice. Times I feel I need bigger, I carry bigger.

David
 
Stopping power I drew a 25 Beretta in a parking garage one night . Guess had stopping power because BG remembered he other things to do at 3am He ran. I carry a 380 a lot PPK/s Bersa tonight its a Colt Mustang. I have faith a few Corbon DPX HP in chest area will give BG pause to think.

AS for all the missed shots. Seems up poor untrained civilians. Have a better hit to shots fired that most police. Their the spray and pray experts .We for most part carry 5 to 8 shots and seem to make them count NYCPD last week 89 shots fired at 1 BG 88 miss and 1 in leg. Next time call a armed CC holder.

Use what ever caliber you can shoot well hits count misses don't
 
The minimum caliber for carry is your bare hands. Anything beyond that will improve your odds. It's just a matter of how much. Nothing is guarenteed.
 
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