Sky Master
New member
I had a similar problem with Lee sizing die. Purchased RCBS small base sizing die. Problem gone.
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Trouble with .223 reloads
- Thread starter OdinsRightHand
- Start date
JeepHammer
Moderator
HiBC,
What I was batting at, with AR rifles in particular, is the bottom of the case, just above extraction groove, is unsupported in the chamber and swells/bloats uncontrolled.
This takes 'Small Base' dies to push back in where it belongs.
Real common with AR rifles.
The second point I was trying to make, and also very common,
Guys don't use the Datum point on the case for the proper headspace,
They simply crank the die down, pushing the shoulder too far back in a lot of cases.
The third issue that is also common with new reloaders, is roll/taper crimping dies pressing DOWN on the case mouth, flairing the shoulder outwards.
Lots of time getting the sizing die correctly adjusted, the shoulder pushed back for proper head space,
Using small base dies to get the bottom of the case pushed back to an acceptable size,
Then screw the entire thing up by too much crimp pushing DOWN and flairing the shoulder outward...
Super common with guys that don't trim cases to length after sizing, range/plinking ammo being the most common...
Size to fit the headspace gauge, load, then drop in the headspace gauge again to see if the shoulder flaired when seating/crimping bullet.
If the headspace changed when loading, the crimp is set too hard.
Now, there IS a sloution for the guys that don't want to trim every single plinking round, and that's a Lee 'Factory Crimp' die.
Since the 'Factory Crimp' die uses a collet to press the crimp in from the SIDES of the case, (instead of stright down on the mouth of the case),
And the shoulder is somewhat supported during the crimp,
You can load unequal length brass (but still within accepted limits) without trimming each and every case so a roll or taper crimp die will work consistantly, if not 'Properly'.
By changing bolts with another rifle the OP has 'Unknown' headspace on TWO rifles...
What I was suggesting is VERIFYING his ammo is within acceptable limits,
And if the problem still presented, the. It was time to take the firearm down for a professional inspection...
This would get him shooting in 3 of 4 rifles he's reloading for, and verify the 4th needs a good looking at by a professional...
Since he's going to reload for multiple firearms, its imparative that his ammo be 'Correct',
If it were ONE firearm, I would recommend the same route,
Ammo 'Acceptable', then have the firearm looked at.
Since factory ammo cycles with no issues, I'm guessing he has a chamber that is a little 'Tight', headspace a little on the 'Short' side,
Over crimping,
Or, the bullets are being seated a little long for the Ogive on the bullet he's using.
The 'Sharpie' test indicates the Ogive is getting into the rifling, short throat in the chamber for where he's seating bullets...
But I also think getting the cases correct, then verifying the shoulder isn't bulged due to over crimp ($20 case gauge) will go a long way to VERIFYING he's producing acceptable ammo... And rule out issue he hasn't discovered yet.
What I was batting at, with AR rifles in particular, is the bottom of the case, just above extraction groove, is unsupported in the chamber and swells/bloats uncontrolled.
This takes 'Small Base' dies to push back in where it belongs.
Real common with AR rifles.
The second point I was trying to make, and also very common,
Guys don't use the Datum point on the case for the proper headspace,
They simply crank the die down, pushing the shoulder too far back in a lot of cases.
The third issue that is also common with new reloaders, is roll/taper crimping dies pressing DOWN on the case mouth, flairing the shoulder outwards.
Lots of time getting the sizing die correctly adjusted, the shoulder pushed back for proper head space,
Using small base dies to get the bottom of the case pushed back to an acceptable size,
Then screw the entire thing up by too much crimp pushing DOWN and flairing the shoulder outward...
Super common with guys that don't trim cases to length after sizing, range/plinking ammo being the most common...
Size to fit the headspace gauge, load, then drop in the headspace gauge again to see if the shoulder flaired when seating/crimping bullet.
If the headspace changed when loading, the crimp is set too hard.
Now, there IS a sloution for the guys that don't want to trim every single plinking round, and that's a Lee 'Factory Crimp' die.
Since the 'Factory Crimp' die uses a collet to press the crimp in from the SIDES of the case, (instead of stright down on the mouth of the case),
And the shoulder is somewhat supported during the crimp,
You can load unequal length brass (but still within accepted limits) without trimming each and every case so a roll or taper crimp die will work consistantly, if not 'Properly'.
By changing bolts with another rifle the OP has 'Unknown' headspace on TWO rifles...
What I was suggesting is VERIFYING his ammo is within acceptable limits,
And if the problem still presented, the. It was time to take the firearm down for a professional inspection...
This would get him shooting in 3 of 4 rifles he's reloading for, and verify the 4th needs a good looking at by a professional...
Since he's going to reload for multiple firearms, its imparative that his ammo be 'Correct',
If it were ONE firearm, I would recommend the same route,
Ammo 'Acceptable', then have the firearm looked at.
Since factory ammo cycles with no issues, I'm guessing he has a chamber that is a little 'Tight', headspace a little on the 'Short' side,
Over crimping,
Or, the bullets are being seated a little long for the Ogive on the bullet he's using.
The 'Sharpie' test indicates the Ogive is getting into the rifling, short throat in the chamber for where he's seating bullets...
But I also think getting the cases correct, then verifying the shoulder isn't bulged due to over crimp ($20 case gauge) will go a long way to VERIFYING he's producing acceptable ammo... And rule out issue he hasn't discovered yet.
Sky Master
New member
I also use a Lyman case gauge for .223. I will insure that proper head space and length are maintained.
Another thing that really helped me when I first started loading for my ARs is to seat and crimp in separate stages. @JeepHammer your statement regarding the roll / taper crimp dies flaring the shoulders of various length brass outward bring back nightmares. Thanks!! I was just able to get through a full nights sleep without waking up screaming "TRIM TO 1.750!!!!!"
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Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
JeepHammer
Moderator
Seating & crimping in two different processes is almost mandatory when loading large volumes...
You just aren't going to get the brass trimmed to EXACTLY the same length so a roll/taper crimper works 100% of time...
Only the most OCD reloader will trim, check, trim, ect...
And if you aren't precise, something else has to give,
Either you are going to over/under crimp,
Or in worst case, buckle the shoulder...
Since I have auto indexing progressive, I use TWO sizing dies, just to make sure the case 'Spring Back' doesn't interfere, or crud under the shell holder, or crud in the die from thousands of rounds doesn't screw things up.
The first die has the throat honed out so it doesn't overwork the neck,
Gives me the most control on the headspace, and with ball removed the rod only punches the primer,
Then the second die sizes the neck, and it can be adjusted to minimize the shoulder push/pull while sizing the neck.
Once the shoulder/headspace is correct,
Then its once through a length trimmer that indexes off the shoulder/datum where its supposed to,
No misaligned cases in the trimmer, no flat faces cutter that needs champfers inside & outside,
Trims off the worst of the work hardened factory crimp,
And preps the case for loading any kind of bullet.
A pass through primer crimp trimmer and pocket uniformer gives primer pockets that work good,
And if needed, annealing...
And its off to loading with as close to a uniform case as I can produce.
You just aren't going to get the brass trimmed to EXACTLY the same length so a roll/taper crimper works 100% of time...
Only the most OCD reloader will trim, check, trim, ect...
And if you aren't precise, something else has to give,
Either you are going to over/under crimp,
Or in worst case, buckle the shoulder...
Since I have auto indexing progressive, I use TWO sizing dies, just to make sure the case 'Spring Back' doesn't interfere, or crud under the shell holder, or crud in the die from thousands of rounds doesn't screw things up.
The first die has the throat honed out so it doesn't overwork the neck,
Gives me the most control on the headspace, and with ball removed the rod only punches the primer,
Then the second die sizes the neck, and it can be adjusted to minimize the shoulder push/pull while sizing the neck.
Once the shoulder/headspace is correct,
Then its once through a length trimmer that indexes off the shoulder/datum where its supposed to,
No misaligned cases in the trimmer, no flat faces cutter that needs champfers inside & outside,
Trims off the worst of the work hardened factory crimp,
And preps the case for loading any kind of bullet.
A pass through primer crimp trimmer and pocket uniformer gives primer pockets that work good,
And if needed, annealing...
And its off to loading with as close to a uniform case as I can produce.