Trouble with .223 reloads

O

OdinsRightHand

Inactive
So this is my first post, and its a problem post. I am having issues with my .223 reloads that have just about driven me insane. There are 4 AR-15s in this equations. One is mine, one is the wife's, one is the brother's, and one is a friends. The wife's and the friends are chambered in 5.56. My brothers is a retro M-16A1 so I'm unsure of the chamber type. Mine is .223 Wylde. My issue is that the rounds i reload are not chambering in the brothers and mine ARs. They chamber in the friends and wife's AR fine. The bolts in the brother's and mine will not go all the way home and can not be assisted into battery. I have measured and measured and measured and there is no difference between the rounds and the factory rounds i have. All brass being reload is once fired. My question is more of a theory. Is the shoulder being pushed too far forward or is the neck being stretched when firing. I have tried pulling a factory bullet out of an unfired round and reloaded it with my supplies and bullets. They chamber just fine. I'm thinking that the cases need to be trimmed. Any have an ideas on this problem. Please go gentle on me. Its my first post on a forum in a long long time. Thanks in advance for your time and patience.
 
Trouble with .223 reloads
So this is my first post, and its a problem post. I am having issues with my .223 reloads that have just about driven me insane. There are 4 AR-15s in this equations. One is mine, one is the wife's, one is the brother's, and one is a friends. The wife's and the friends are chambered in 5.56. My brothers is a retro M-16A1 so I'm unsure of the chamber type. Mine is .223 Wylde. My issue is that the rounds i reload are not chambering in the brothers and mine ARs. They chamber in the friends and wife's AR fine. The bolts in the brother's and mine will not go all the way home and can not be assisted into battery. I have measured and measured and measured and there is no difference between the rounds and the factory rounds i have. All brass being reload is once fired. My question is more of a theory. Is the shoulder being pushed too far forward or is the neck being stretched when firing. I have tried pulling a factory bullet out of an unfired round and reloaded it with my supplies and bullets. They chamber just fine. I'm thinking that the cases need to be trimmed. Any have an ideas on this problem. Please go gentle on me. Its my first post on a forum in a long long time. Thanks in advance for your time and patience.
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Welcome to The Firing Line and as you can see I am new here myself.

It would be nice to know what dies you are using and how you are setting them up? Since you are loading for a wide range of semi-automatic rifles I would think you want to full length resize and I would also consider using SB (Small Base) dies for example the RCBS #11107 dies. Anyway here is what I would do. Take a few cases that won't chamber and blacken them using a magic marker or dykem (layout fluid) or whatever may work, magic marker being the most common. Then try and chamber those rounds. Look for scratch marks where the cartridge meets obstruction going in. A few things to think about.

Ron
 
I'm reloading for smith, scar and bushmaster with Lee dies. Seating shoulders back .004 and all are doing great. I hate it but I do trim and prep after every full length sizing. I also size for a Remington bolt 223 and only set shoulders back .001. These don't work in my ar.
 
Four different rifles will have four slightly different chamber dimensions regardless of the type of rifle. Once fired throws a 5th rifle into the mix.
Reloading for any semi-auto requires checking case lengths every time(trimming, chamfering and deburring as required only), FL resizing and watching OAL's.
Case length should be no more than 1.760". Trim to is 1.750".
You using an FL sizing die or an SB sizing die? It's an 'either/or' thing, but like Reloadron says, some AR's require an SB die vs a regular FL die. An SB sizes a few thou more.
What's your OAL? SAAMI says, 2.125" to 2.260" for .223. Measured from the pointy bit to the flat bit. No ogives involved.
.223 Wylde isn't recognized by them at all. It's really just a 5.56 with a tighter throat. No such thing as .223 Wylde dies either. It's loaded using regular .223 FL dies.
"...magic marker being..." The easiest and least expensive too. Sharpies are your friend.
 
I certainly appreciate the input. I think i finally figured it out. I went back to the books(Hornady and Lyman). It keeps mentioning to trim the case length to 1.750. All the cases i measure are greater than that. I am using Lee 3 die set and that's all I've been using for years. Just haven't done a semi-auto RIFLE. I have done bolt action, lever action, semi-auto pistols, but I've never done this type before. I might try the trimming first, once it comes in the mail on Wednesday. I am using a Hornady Single Stage Classic and LOVE IT!! I am hoping this solves the problem. I have tried the sharpie trick and it indicated that the bullet itself is the problem. I have tried pushing the shoulder back to no avail. Sorry for the all over the board posting. I'm cleaning house/workshop/cars/garage. Kind of an end of summer cleaning.
 
Thanks Ron!! I am still a amateur when it comes to this reloading. I am learning more and more. This forum has already helped immensely!! One last question, can i trim with the primer already installed? I have about 50 cases where this is the case (no pun intended). Thanks
 
Depends on your trimmer. I use a RCBS Trim Pro and with this design yes, you can trim a primed case. A little spooky for some but yes, a trimmer of that type. Some trimmers used with a drill rely on using the flash hole and in that case nope. :)

Ron
 
Literally ALL once fired cases(except Federal in my experience) need to be trimmed.
I'd say you're not getting your cases sized enough to fit two of the chambers. I have numerous AR's in .223, 5.56, and Wylde and have found no rhyme or reason in the sizing dilemma. The price point utility AR I use most has a super tight chamber that demands a small base sizer while one of the "match grade" chambered AR's will gobble up most of the rejects from all the other rifles.
 
Max case length is 1.760, but SAAMI specs for the chamber are 1.77, so if your cases are shorter than that, then I do not think case length is your problem.

I would start with the sizing die .
Grab a couple fired unsized cases, lube em, size em, and see if they chamber and extract with ease.

If no, then screw the die into the press until they do.
If yes, then seat a bullet or three and see if they work, if they do not chamber with seated. bullet, then you prolly have your seating die set to deep into press and the crimp feature is distorting the case
 
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In recent months I had two chambering problems with 223 rounds. The first problem was solved by measuring all dimensions of the reloads and comparing to a factory round (I had to borrow a factory round). Turned out to be thick neck walls not fitting in a real tight match chamber. That isn't your problem, I'm sure, but measuring everything against a round that chambers will show you what's wrong - probably.

The second chambering problem was caused by the sizing die. I was oversizing and causing the shoulder to collapse very slightly. Couldn't tell by looking, but the case was now too thick at the shoulder, though only by a very small amount. Probably would have chambered in a nice roomy chamber, but not a tight one.
 
I'll go with a case gauge also.
The simple L.E. Wilson usually stops the issues you are having.
Size your cases, gauge them, the gauge used as 'Go/NoGo' on both ends.
There is a 'Step' ground into both ends that will give you an instant visual/mechanical reference point,
And since the gauge indexes off the 'Datum' point on the shoulder, it will tell you if you are getting the shoulder pushed back far enough, or too far,
And it will give you an accurate read from shoulder to neck mouth read.
.
I have to go with full length, small base dies also.
Some chambers are sloppy, letting about any case chamber,
But tighter chambers, like most Wylde barrels, can be quite picky about what they will chamber.
 
You said that the marker indicated a bullet issue. Try seating the bullet a little deeper. With the barrel removed you can also try the plunk test by dropping a round in the chamber and seeing if it spins freely. If not then the bullet is sticking out too long.
 
In theory,if all these rifles are factory built,they SHOULD be to SAAMI spec.Maybe.
If any of them are homebuilt from parts,its important to verify ,with the bolt stripped,that the headspace is correct.Your friendly local gunsmith can do that easier than you can buy the gages and a bolt assembly tool.

Generally,any rifle built to SAAMI specs will accept any ammo made to SAAMI specs(with consideration to .223 vs .556 throats)

Generally,the 5.56 chambers and the Wylde chamber SHOULD accept any longer ogive bullet/load you are likely to use that will fit in a magazine.These chambers get single loaded match ammo too long to fit in a magazine.

Have you definitely isolated the problem to a specific rifles(s),or does it "float"

Rifling marks on a magic markered bullet indicate throat/leade interference.

A tight rifle COULD be a headspace issue.Easily verified.

A Wilson case gagewill tell you if your brass falls within SAAMI LENGTHS.

One other problem comes up often.Many seating dies crimp.If you are setting your die to contact the shellholder,you MAY be brutally over crimping your ammo. This caused shoulder collapse,and expands the case dia at the shoulder.

Measure your shoulders with your caliper,then measure the case behind the shoulder.If the dia is larger at the shoulder,back your seater off the shell holder a turn or so.
 
If, by chance, the crimp caused the shoulder scrunch that won't let the round chamber, a Redding Body Die can be used on live rounds to fix the shoulder problem.

The Wilson case gauge is good to have. It'll quickly show case size or shape issues. It won't, however, tell you if the neck walls are too thick, though that's a rare problem. That's why I earlier suggested measurement comparisons between cases that will and will not chamber.
 
Well quick update, I got the trimmer in and started trimming to 1.750. Still getting the hang of it. I have about 10 out of the 35 rounds that don't fit and all the other ones are extremely hard to pull back out of the chamber. Any ideas on this? Why will most fit and some won't? Why the almost stuck in chamber issue? Any help would be appreciated.

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Wow, sorry, I didn't see the page 2. I'll go through and read them all but a quick scan I don't see the stuck after chambering issue

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After full length sizing and trimming, once you reload, have you measured the COL? Make sure you are not over max, or his chamber might be tight,and requires deeper bullet seating.
 
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