Triton is trying my patience!

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Tom;

Welcome! And BRAVO! You make an excellent moderator.

I believe what has happened here is that one manufacturer made a statement concerning another manufacturer's product. Though no harm was intended! He was passing along information concerning what he saw as a problem.

Others, took this statement as an out and out flame, forwarded the post, and it went down hill rapidly from there, turning into a public discussion on, how shall I say?... industry politics/practices. I'm sure all will agree that these are best left off the net.

But what really erks me is that the original issue has been totally ignored... by ALL i.e. the claim that there is a problem with the case of the .400 CB. That has been overshadowed by this "He said, She said" BS.

I would like to see this issue addressed by those knowledgeable in that area... Mr. Pi, Fernando, and yourself. That is what I would like to see discussed... reasonably, like adults, and without any rivalry. As you said

WE ARE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER!

However, if the parties concerned determine that this is better left "behind the scenes" so be it. It could have been an interesting thread... for all.

Just my two cents!

Or we could turn this discussion along another line that has been mentioned in this thread. That is the one of FIRE. ;)

------------------
Schmit, GySgt, USMC(Ret)
NRA Life, Lodge 1201-UOSSS
"Si vis Pacem Para Bellum"
 
Red Bull:

Tried the links you provided and couldn't get into to them....are you sure you've got them down to the letter?

Could be a problem with server, my 'puter,
etc.

PROBLEM SOLVED...YOU FIXED WHEN I WAS TYPING THIS POST OUT....NEVER GOT IN ON THE 9MM THREAD AS I DON'T OWN ONE...INTERESTING INFORMATION...THE AGE OLD DEBATE GOES ON!

Thanks...
Mike

[This message has been edited by Mike Spight (edited August 22, 1999).]
 
DOA;

Glad you just joined TFL… coming in from left field and stiring this up. Do this type of thing often?

I just want to make a few points concerning your posts….

DOA - Triton "double talks" his way around how he shafted D. Curry. Triton accepted payment
for a product they said was available.

Being in this tread from the beginning I think you missed some things. (you may want to go back and re-read the posts… all of them)

Mr Coelho addressed that with Mr. Curry. Do you really think that Mr. Curry gave his $$ to his Dealer, the Dealer took his “cut” and set the rest to his Distributer, who took his cut and sent the balance to Triton? It just doesn’t work like that. I believe Mr. Curry’s Dealer required a deposit, which he is holding on to.

Mr. Curry contacted Triton and was told that they were finishing up a production run and the ammo would start shipping. After that a business decision was made, probably unknown to the Triton Rep who told Mr Curry the ammo was shipping, to send the ammo other places.

In order to address a customer who is unsatisfied, Mr. Coelho offered to refund Mr. Curry’s money if his dealer failed to do so. Mind you… he would be refunding the retail cost… not wholesale… not manufacturers cost. I for one think this is very noble on his part. . Mr. Coelho could have said Mr. Curry needed to talk to his Dealer and left it at that, but he didn’t. Brushing it under the carpet… I think not… I think it is takeing customer service an extra length, at a company loss, to satisfy a customer.

As for the rest of you post… see my reply to Tom Burczynski and Red Bull's post.

Lets keep these key figures on TFL so we all may benefit from their knowledge!


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Schmit, GySgt, USMC(Ret)
NRA Life, Lodge 1201-UOSSS
"Si vis Pacem Para Bellum"
 
Ah, isn't the internet great! "Nobody's" (ELU's) like myself can actually get through to big name guys that I could not even elbow my way up to at a gun show because of all the other people around.

It is unfortunate that this wonderful opportunity is wasted on just bickering. We could be asking and getting answers to some very good questions right now from the best people in the industry! That would be time much better spent. Fernando has already graciously answered some questions for us in other threads (thanks, Fernando!). How about you other guys stick around and answer some really good questions and educate us on what makes handgun bullets "tick"?

Personally, I would like to see Peter Pi and especailly Tom Burczynski respond to the accusations that they only make "gimmick bullets" and ammo that appeals to "armchair commandos" as was accused in the thread linked directly below. It would be interesting to hear some of your insight into your bullet designs, especially the fast/light theory (CorBon) and the Quik Shok design, both of which were attacked as the ammo choice that no truly serious and educated defensive handgunner would use.

[Link to invalid post]



Here is another thread (linked directly below) that I would love to see Tom Burczynski get involved in about the Quik Shok performance (not so heated, just some questions about the pluses and minuses of how it performs and what to expect from it):

[Link to invalid post]





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Drink Red Bull, it'll give you wings!
 
Triton started badmouthing competition without much sutilty. They did it with Aguila. And then Corbon. Sometimes keeping your mouth shut or being a bit more diplomatic, especially in public, is a good thing. Their attitude looked/sounded/read bad/snotty to me. It is really something that commercial interests should bear in mind when posting to such forums.
 
David S,

You confuse me. You (correctly) call DOA to task for not having fully read this thread, yet you post:


But what really erks me is that the
original issue has been totally
ignored... by ALL i.e. the claim that there is a problem with the case of
the .400 CB. That has been overshadowed
by this "He said, She said" BS.

The original issue of this thread was not the .400 C-B case. That was part of the original "slam" by Triton. Mr Pi indicated that he knew nothing about the Mounties situation and had clarified the misrepresentation Coehlo made about the gun blow up at Second Chance. So where's the issue? I've been shooting 400 C-B for several years, am aware of quite a few others including agencies, and have heard of ZIP problems. Do you know of any instances of problems directly attributed to the brass, all else being as it should be? All I saw was the unsupported "claim" made by Coehlo! And that my friend was part of the original "he said she said BS"! I don't see any ignored "original" issue here at all! The frustrations of a Triton brass seeker constituted the original issue.

-=[Bob]=-

[This message has been edited by bald1 (edited August 22, 1999).]
 
Bob,

You got me! :) You are correct on the "original" subject of this thread. That was addressed, and I hope, retified.

I would still like to find out if the claim ("slam" in your words) made by Ferando are in fact unsupported. And if there is support to this claim what Peter has done to correct it.

Guess I'm just looking at the bigger issue behind the thread. And no, I have no personal knowledge of problems with the .400 Corbon... but then again I had no personal knowledge with Glock kBs either... yet they still happen, have been documented, and "adjustments" made by all concerned to lessen these.

It may boil down to a bad lot of brass was used to make a certain lot of ammo that made it out. That happens, in every manufacturing industry. However, if this is an on going problem (however small), I would like to know.

------------------
Schmit, GySgt, USMC(Ret)
NRA Life, Lodge 1201-UOSSS
"Si vis Pacem Para Bellum"
 
David,

I understand your concern and curiosity. I remember all the "hype" about M9 failures, the Glock business, and various ammo claims. The M9 failures ended up tied to poor metallurgy although in the end the design was beefed up. The Glock bit still remains contentious with claims of discharges from guns not fully in battery countered with the unwarrented use of reloads. Personally I've seen only one Glock and it blew with a 9mm reload but the 'smith who examined it before it went off to Glock believed an out of battery condition may have existed. Inconclusive. As for the .400 Cor-Bon, I've heard nothing and I've been very sensitive since I'm running a 400 C-B barrel in an expensive to replace custom Colt 1911A1. I've used Starline brass from the beginning for my reloads and of the numerous factory rounds I've fired nada problem. If the issue is the recommendation to use Starline brass rather than reform 45ACP brass, that guidance came out around the same time as the SHOT Show when the first barrels were made available. A prudent clarification from a manufacturer is not a de facto admission of a problem.

I guess what I'm saying is that we don't have any factual allegation to look at. Rather only inuendo and inferences. I just can't see wasting my time with such. There is, from my knothole, no substantiated 400 C-B brass problem :)!

-=[Bob]=-
 
I joined TFL in response to some questions concerning my products. I could very well limit my involvement to only those matters. However, as I have some technical knowledge in regard to ammunition I chose to make a statement about something that I, as an ammo designer/manufacturer, see as a problem. Some members of TFL took this as a personal attack on another manufacturer, it was not! Being the CEO of a company does not put me in a position with no opinion or point of view, either. It does, however, raise the heat when people take offense to my statements. I guess if I were the CEO of Ferrari I could comment on the ammo industry with no backlash.

Tom B. – Hi Tom. It’s good to have you step into the forum.

DOA – Triton did not shaft D. Curry. Sorry you see it that way. I will not even attempt to respond to the rest of your postings. They’re not worth the effort.

To All – I think it’s time we move on to more important questions on ammunition, bullet design, ballistics, etc. Time is too precious for many of us.
 
"schmidbauer and bald1" ,

Curry paid his dealer , which
inturn pays the distributor
which inturn pays TRITON. Boy
that was too difficult for me to
grasp! This payment was made
because TRITON told Curry we
are making the ammo now! As weeks
pass , Curry calls Triton which
reply sorry not till next year.
We misinformed you on your original
phone call , so sorry. Which post do
I need to re-read?? This is the issue
and the point of this D**N thread!!!
Everything else came about after
the manure shoveling started with
the sidesteping , excuse generating
and finally attacking CorBon only to
detract from the original Post. Curry
was upset because he was deceived with
false information on the phone & at
the web site. An easy "I'm sorry , we
messed up , let me fix it for you Sir."
That would have been the correct
response. Instead of trying to justify
rationalizations. Then I'm told DOA
can't read.
 
DOA

Hmmm, new member as of 22 August, no info under your profile... not even an e-mail address. 3 posts, all of which are on this thread and each of which is, IMO, an attempt to stir the pot.

Makes one wonder.

------------------
Schmit, GySgt, USMC(Ret)
NRA Life, Lodge 1201-UOSSS
"Si vis Pacem Para Bellum"

Edited for typo.




[This message has been edited by David Schmidbauer (edited August 22, 1999).]
 
Gentlemen (and for some of you, the definition is strained to be accommodating),

Corporate America: Thank you for taking your internecine "discussion" from my living room and out onto the balcony. Please be careful, it's a long drop and the rails are old and rickety.

Bald1 & DOA: Please see my emails to you, respectively.

All other members, senior members and guests: On behalf of the TFL Management & Staff, I'd like to thank you for your patience and tolerance as this little vignette has played itself out. Since the length of the thread has reached that magic number of posts whereby many home systems "choke" on the download, it will now be closed.


Regards,
Mykl
 
I've reopened this thread for one post to add some background.

The fact that this thread is so far out of hand is my own fault. My earlier post welcoming Peter and Fernando might be taken as encouragement for this type of discussion...it was not meant that way.

Fact is that both Peter and Fernando had already received email nastygrams from me and both stepped up to the plate with apology and understanding. They have, IMHO, tried to do some justice to the conversation since then and are quite welcome here, as is Tom Burczynski.

Unfortunately, one poster chose to take advantage of the situation and move the discussion into the full-flame arena. This is a clear violation of Forum policies.

Many thanks to Mykl for taking the situation in hand and appropriately closing this thread as it has deviated far from any useful purpose.
Rich Lucibella

[This message has been edited by Rich Lucibella (edited August 23, 1999).]
 
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