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trimmer problems
- Thread starter Shadow9mm
- Start date
The concentric rings as per the picture in the O.P. start way down on the pilot where the brass case would not be making contact. My guess is thoese concentric rings as evidence of a poor finish on the pilot, not worn-in by the brass.It's possible that because the brass is softer, it would hold on to carbon / grit and when spinning it over the pilot it wears concentric rings into it.
My assumption was he saw new scratching through the finish, but if it was those existing toolmarks, you are right. I started with the Wilson trimmer and have never owned one of the piloted lathe types so I don't have a sense of how hard the pilots are. If I were making them, they'd be hardened or nitrided at the surface.
I note the Midway description says they fit the Redding, Hornady, and Forster trimmers. That should mean you can buy the Hornady or the Forster pilots if you are dissatisfied with the Redding ones. The photos at Midway suggest the Hornady pilots, aside from being a little differently shaped, have more toolmarks than the Redding. Their photo of the Forster pilot shows toolmarks on the taper of the nose, but not on the cylindrical sides. I don't know if that would have been the OP's case. The ones by Redding in the Midway photo don't have obvious toolmarks.
I note the Midway description says they fit the Redding, Hornady, and Forster trimmers. That should mean you can buy the Hornady or the Forster pilots if you are dissatisfied with the Redding ones. The photos at Midway suggest the Hornady pilots, aside from being a little differently shaped, have more toolmarks than the Redding. Their photo of the Forster pilot shows toolmarks on the taper of the nose, but not on the cylindrical sides. I don't know if that would have been the OP's case. The ones by Redding in the Midway photo don't have obvious toolmarks.
Don Fischer
New member
Leave the pilot in the trimmer and hold some 400 grit wet/dry sand paper to it and turn the handle. I don't have that problem but now and then one gets sticky on me. I lube the inside of the neck's with a Q-tip.
the Redding pilots appeared to have a black parkarized finish. However this wore quickly. I standed them smooth to a mirror polish with 1500-2500 grit wet dry. The scoring on the pilots was fresh after trimming.
I am hesitant to have to lube pilot/trimmer as, after trimming they get loaded and I don't want to have to clean them off again.
I am ordering the hornady pilots to try
Forster is sending me a new cutter head. hopefully between the new pilot and cutter head will resolve the issue. Will update when I get the parts swapped.
I am hesitant to have to lube pilot/trimmer as, after trimming they get loaded and I don't want to have to clean them off again.
I am ordering the hornady pilots to try
Forster is sending me a new cutter head. hopefully between the new pilot and cutter head will resolve the issue. Will update when I get the parts swapped.
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Yes, it would.
Shadow9mm,
Dry lubes like graphite and motor mica should work the same as they are used for expanders in resizing dies, and they don't have to be removed. Indeed, some think they are desirable to help stop sharp toolmarks in the brass from scraping the bullet jacket. In this article, the interviewee mentions putting Froggy's lube (graphite and alcohol mix I am told by someone who got some when it was still a product). You could do it before trimming and see what happens. Better to get the problem sorted by fit and finish, of course, but it is still something you can try without harm.
Shadow9mm,
Dry lubes like graphite and motor mica should work the same as they are used for expanders in resizing dies, and they don't have to be removed. Indeed, some think they are desirable to help stop sharp toolmarks in the brass from scraping the bullet jacket. In this article, the interviewee mentions putting Froggy's lube (graphite and alcohol mix I am told by someone who got some when it was still a product). You could do it before trimming and see what happens. Better to get the problem sorted by fit and finish, of course, but it is still something you can try without harm.
I had considered a dry neck lube. I may try graphite on the pilot. I am just having a hard time as I have a couple hundred more 308s and about 5k 223s to trim. I had a WFT but it was not giving me consistent OALs and i decided to go for a more consistent trimmer.
I ordered new factory and hornady pilots. going to try that first.
In regards to the case hardening. The coating on the pilots was not scoring as badly. however brass was still building up and getting embedded in the pilot. I tried a opper remover to get the brass off, and ended up using a light bore polish to get the rest off. after removing the brass it was down to bare metal, which is why i went ahead and polished the entire thing since the finish has already come off after about 400 cases trimmed.
I ordered new factory and hornady pilots. going to try that first.
In regards to the case hardening. The coating on the pilots was not scoring as badly. however brass was still building up and getting embedded in the pilot. I tried a opper remover to get the brass off, and ended up using a light bore polish to get the rest off. after removing the brass it was down to bare metal, which is why i went ahead and polished the entire thing since the finish has already come off after about 400 cases trimmed.
Ok, got the new pilots in today. Not sure if I got the cart before the horse so I decided to measure the brass and pilot before I started testing.
I measured the brass. it is coming in right around 0.305 so about 0.003 smaller than bullet diameter.
Original Redding pilot that has been polished is measuring a 0.302
the new Redding pilot is measuring 0.304
The Hornady Pilot is measuring at 0.304
With that said the Hornady pilot is shorter. less surface area contact in the neck to bind up. Got a few more days of work. Then its time to do some testing.
I measured the brass. it is coming in right around 0.305 so about 0.003 smaller than bullet diameter.
Original Redding pilot that has been polished is measuring a 0.302
the new Redding pilot is measuring 0.304
The Hornady Pilot is measuring at 0.304
With that said the Hornady pilot is shorter. less surface area contact in the neck to bind up. Got a few more days of work. Then its time to do some testing.
I still think it's more the amount being trimmed off then the trimmer or pilots them selves . When I trim my LC once fired cases using a small base die . I've had to trim as much as .018+ off at times . That inside edge/cuttings that stays hanging onto the case mouth that we need to de-bur/chamfer always got hung up on the pilot and would roll up in between the neck and pilot . So much so at times the only way to remove the pilot was to remove the case from the trimmer with pilot still stuck in the neck . Then use pliers on both the case and pilot to pull them apart often ruining the case .
My honest advice is switch to a different trimmer before you've spent enough trying to fix your trimmer you could buy another and the problem still not be fixed .
My honest advice is switch to a different trimmer before you've spent enough trying to fix your trimmer you could buy another and the problem still not be fixed .
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So far I only spent about $20 to get some different pilots. But that is about as far at I am willing to go. Redding is sending me a new cutter head. I suspect that is part of the problem too. I am only getting good shavings off of 1 of the 4 tines. If the new pilots and the new head don't fix the problem it will be looking for a new option.I still think it's more the amount being trimmed off then the trimmer or pilots them selves . When I trim my LC once fired cases using a small base die . I've had to trim as much as .018+ off at times . That inside edge/cuttings that stays hanging onto the case mouth that we need to de-bur/chamfer always got hung up on the pilot and would roll up in between the neck and pilot . So much so at times the only way to remove the pilot was to remove the case from the trimmer with pilot still stuck in the neck . Then use pliers on both the case and pilot to pull them apart often ruining the case .
My honest advice is switch to a different trimmer before you've spent enough trying to fix your trimmer you could buy another and the problem still not be fixed .
Parable of the Two Priests (Buddhist I believe)
Shoulder Trimmer
An old priest and a young one were walking the road. Their order did not allow them to deal with women in any way.
They came upon a carriage wreck where a young woman had been thrown into the mud and was struggling with the impact of her being thrown and clothing saturated.
The Young Priest went around.
The Old Priest got her sitting, made sure she was ok, got her upright and carried her out of the mud hole to a good resting spot under a tree, then waited for another carriage to came along to give her a lift to the next town.
As the two priest proceeded on their journey, the young one berated the old priest about having violated the edicts the order.
Finally the Old Priest looked at the young one and said "are you still carrying that woman?"
Shoulder Trimmer
I tried the shoulder trimmer method. I had trouble setting it up, and inconsistent results. Thus I decided to try the Redding. The results are much more precise, however it is having functional dificulties.Parable of the Two Priests (Buddhist I believe)
Shoulder Trimmer
Got my new trimmer head in! Gonne do some testing after dinner.
I don't use a trimmer that uses a pilot for trimming but my neck turner does use a pilot and it fits very tightly. Tight enough where I use a dab of Imperial on it. No shavings end up inside the neck. If you use a bushing die for sizing try a smaller bushing and see if that helps
Disreguard what the instructions say ... trim fired cases ... before ... you size them .
I know ... every expert say's to trim them after sizing and that advice sounds good
But ... try trimming a few before sizing and see how it works for you ...
I had the same problem your having 50 years ago with my rotary trimmer ...
Trimming them before sizing works better than an Old Voo-Doo Womans Black Magic Spell!
Try it ....you'll see
Gary
I know ... every expert say's to trim them after sizing and that advice sounds good
But ... try trimming a few before sizing and see how it works for you ...
I had the same problem your having 50 years ago with my rotary trimmer ...
Trimming them before sizing works better than an Old Voo-Doo Womans Black Magic Spell!
Try it ....you'll see
Gary
The Wilson trimmer actually has different case holders for resized and as-fired cases, so people do both. The reason you normally resize first is that cases usually don't all grow much until you resize them, and then they don't all grow the exact same amount when you do, so your cases come out long and a little uneven. However, the chamber specs normally allow enough wiggle room that this doesn't present a danger as long as you trim at some point during each loading cycle.
I really like the wilson trimmer. but with over 5k pieces of brass to go through It is not a viably system.The Wilson trimmer actually has different case holders for resized and as-fired cases, so people do both. The reason you normally resize first is that cases usually don't all grow much until you resize them, and then they don't all grow the exact same amount when you do, so your cases come out long and a little uneven. However, the chamber specs normally allow enough wiggle room that this doesn't present a danger as long as you trim at some point during each loading cycle.
Since I am using the RCBX X-die system I really want my case lengths consistent. I am, hopefully, only going to have to be trimming them once but want them to be consistent.
As stated cases grow when fired and resized. Thus trimming before resizing will give me inconsistent lengths. wont work for what I am doing.